Consciousness

[PureGenius]

I would like to explore enlightenment in the actual sense of the word I have studied many ancient religions and found this concept in one form or another. There aren't enough people who understand this idea so it is a fundamental shift brought about through intense meditation this state is attained by few even among the innitiated. It is a state in wich the mind becomes purified through mental dicipline in this heightened state of awareness were the brain can access more information faster and also certain powers are gained these vary depending on the individual . This is the missing ingriedient in most modern religions. It is not a phsycological state as some have theorized, if that were the case none of these individuals would have displayed any actual powers and there if ample evidence to the contrary . Therefore enlightenment is real if not extremely rare.

[Dekan]

You raise a deep question - what is enlightenment? Modern religions seem to involve the reading of sacred texts. Like the Bible, Koran, and Talmud. These texts may give rise to valuable thoughts and feelings. But do the texts give the readers "actual powers", to use your phrase.

 

Must an enlightened person display actual supernatural powers?

Edited April 28, 2013 by Dekan

[PureGenius]

Yes the reading of texts but in what context and are they being given the guidance needed to realize the deeper meaning of the metaphors that will lead then to actual enlightenment.When an individual attains this state powers are gained as history has proven. So if one is truly enlightened they will have some type of supernatural power whether they chose to display

Them would be up to the individual.

[krash661]

interesting.

the best understanding i have had personally is from open mind as possible, even if it is loony tunes,voodoo magic or such

 

everything is relative..

[MonDie]

So if one is truly enlightened they will have some type of supernatural power whether they chose to display

 

How do you recognize whether or not someone is enlightened?

 

 

I think meditation would be more productive than studying scriptural texts, so I will support you at least that far.

[PureGenius]

There can't be a way to recognize an enlightened person this is why we must all respect those around us, that way we can be sure not to offend someone who can control time and space or expunge our karmic record . Meditation is the gate to wisdom and wisdom arrives at it's own kind of power. For example can u see the best violinist in the world walking down the street in his casual clothes u not being a musician would you instantly recognize him as talented or even being a musician probably not I thinkwe must apply the same logic when speaking of an enlightened person .

Edited May 3, 2013 by PureGenius

[MonDie]

Then how can you defend this claim?

 

 

When an individual attains this state powers are gained as history has proven. So if one is truly enlightened they will have some type of supernatural power whether they chose to display

[PureGenius]

Have u not read history is it not full of individuals who displslayed various powers like levitation the ability to heal others, Rasputin for example was almost impossible to kill. There would be certain qaulities but I don't think anyone would notice them was my point that by no means removes the integrity of individuals that have transcended the physical world and attained enlightenment.

[PeterJ]

Forget supernatural powers. Those who seek enlightenment do not have much truck with the supernatural, if there is such a thing. A more common term would be 'supramundane'. Ie. beyond our usual experience, but not beyond Nature.

 

It is quite easy to kill enlightened people, as the Chinese are always keen to demonstrate.

 

After all, the Buddha died of food poisoning.

 

It is true that there is no sure way to identify an enlightenened individual, partly since it is a gradual thing unless one is a buddha and reached the end of the line. but it is often possible to clearly identify people who are definitely not there yet from their speech and behaviour.

 

C. S, Peirce says that it is easy to tell those 'still at the dual stage' from their unrigorous use of language. I agree.

[DevilSolution]

If god is fate, the huge computational machine giving way to cause and effect, then consciousness in essence is gods polar opposite ..... enlightenment is comprehension of concepts.....

[PureGenius]

Enlightenment isn't about invincibility it's about wisdom and actual mental advancement saying the chinese kill enlightened people doesn't mean their not enlightened. The awareness that one attains through meditation is a reality though most cannot reach any actual state of enlightenment doesn't mean it isn't real and yes u cannot tell if someone is nor can u accertain thier abiltys unless they show you. So it could be construed as a matter of faith in human potential until one sees actual proof.

[MonDie]

yes u cannot tell if someone is nor can u accertain thier abiltys unless they show you. So it could be construed as a matter of faith in human potential until one sees actual proof.

 

Why won't they show us?

[photon propeller]

Enlightenment is an increase in awareness. It is attained as knowledge is absorbed. It is a continuous process for all open minds that are continually learning. When we are children we start with an empty space. As we grow that space is filled and expands. Awareness is what keeps us from stepping in that big pile of dung around the next corner. A few tips for recognizing those who possess some level of enlightenment:1) Humility, no body knows it all, but everyone can strive to 2)Treat others with respect if you want respect. 3) Create and destroy when necessary. 4)Listen before you speak 5) Recognize danger when it is present.6)Know when you've made a mistake and dont be afraid to say your sorry. 7)Control your emotions and focus your energy, transforming fear to energy can be a powerful asset. 8) In a world as crowed as ours, be grateful if you can control spitting distance around you, life is a privilege, not a right 9)We all live and die, cherish every moment 10)The more enlightened we are the more we understand, but watch out, knowledge can be extremely dangerous, it can crush the weak and drive the strong to insanity.

[PeterJ]

Why won't they show us?

 

Why won't you look?

 

I don't think we should be describing enlightenment unless we know what it is, and this would require enlightenment. Otherwise we might do better to quote people who can speak from knowledge.

 

It cannot be demonstrated, so it;s no good asking fo a proof that someone is or is not enlightened. But careful observation of people who are well down the path to it is usually very revealing. What we see is an unusual degree of equinimity, compassion, humour, confidence, tolerance, egolessness, optimism and an absence of fear of death.

 

My guess is that it is not correct to say 'it is attained as knoweldge is absorbed'. True in a way, perhaps, but in Zen there is no attainment, and knowledge is discarded in order to clear the mind and gain a knowledge of how we know things in the first place. No scriptures required. But Zen is a very minimal approach. We are travelling beyond the conceptual mind, so ordinary knowledge would be neither here nor there at the limit.

[PureGenius]

I recommend the upanishads , read them carefully they are concerned with consciousness and it's awakening. Also as to rules or a certain personality being present among the enlightened I recommend allot of reading up on ancient cases of enlightenment and the various personalities exhibited . There is no norm among geniuses nor is there any among the enlightened it is a modern fallacy conceived by those who do understand the true nature of either.