Formation of Mind?

[Gees]

Hello Members;

This is my first post, so be nice to the newbie. I have no training in science, but have an abiding respect for it, as science is the "answer man", and I need answers that I can't find. My interest is consciousness, but not the scientific definition of conscious, unconscious, and preconscious; more the philosophical definition of consciousness as in awareness.

My studies keep bringing me around to emotion, and I have begun to believe that it may be more closely linked to awareness than thought is linked to awareness. But recently, it occurred to me that emotion is also very relevant to mind, Emotion and mind are not well studied and understood, so I hoped that I could find some answers here.

Traumatic shock can actually kill a person, destroying the mind, and this can be caused by emotion.

Traumatic emotion can cause Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which can manipulate a person's awareness and mind involuntarily.

Traumatic emotion can fracture a mind into minds, as in Multiple Personality Disorder.

Strong emotion can bond minds in love, stress, trauma, etc., and these can be lifelong bonds.

Strong emotion/excitement can bond minds temporarily as in a "riot mentality".

It occurs to me that there is nothing, short of damage to the brain, that has as much influence on mind as emotion does. So is it possible that emotion is instrumental in the formation of mind? Is that why labor and delivery are so distressing? So a mind can form? Does this mean that any species that has a brain and strong emotion, probably has a mind as well? Lots of questions.

Or maybe I am putting ideas together that do not belong together. Does anyone have any answers that can be relayed in laymen's terms? Or maybe a link where I can learn more, as I am disabled and housebound?

Thank you for your consideration.

Gees

[Gees]

Well, this is certainly not what I expected; more than a week has gone by with no responses. So why are there no responses? There are possibilities:

 

a. No one has seen my original post? No, there have been more than 30 views.

 

b. No one understands my questions? Then why wouldn't they ask for clarification?

 

c. I am a dope and put this in the wrong area? Then why didn't the Moderators say something or move it?

 

d. This subject has been hashed over 1,000 times. Not in this forum, as I checked before posting.

 

e. No one has a clue about this subject and does not want to appear stupid. Well I don't have a clue either, which is why I'm asking.

 

f. I know, maybe my logic is so accurate, my reasoning so pure, my thoughts so concise, that people are blown out of the water, stunned, awed, and mesmerized by the brilliance of my mind! (chuckle chuckle) Yeah, that's likely.

 

Anyone else have an idea?

 

G

[EdEarl]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

 

I did not see your original post, but did participate in the following: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/75095-consciousness-constructing-reality/

 

My orientation is generally scientific; thus, cannot comment on philosophical or spiritual aspects of mind and consciousness.

[Gees]

EdEarl;

Thank you for the response and the welcome. I reviewed the thread that you recommended and watched the videos, and although interesting, they do not really explain mind or emotion. Mostly they deal with neurology and AI, which is more a study of the conscious brain, memory, and intelligence, than it is a study of mind or conscious awareness. Although neurology has been looking for consciousness in the brain for quite some time, I doubt that they will find it; but recently they have joined forces with endocrinology, so I have some hope. The brain is saturated in chemicals, and I believe that the puzzle that is consciousness will be unraveled by understanding the chemical nature of the brain.

 

Although conscious awareness can be studied in a hundred different ways, and the brain in a hundred more, my studies lean more toward the study of mind, which is why I posted this thread in Psychology, rather than in Neurology. I have been working off of the divisions of mind as proposed by Freud and have learned about the levels and logic that Dr. Ignacio Matte Blanco found in the unconscious mind. But it is difficult to find people who study mind, rather than brain.

 

I have some questions, if you have a moment. I noticed that you mentioned the word "spiritual" and wondered why. Is it because I mentioned emotion? And is there a spell check that I can use when writing a post? I can't find one.

 

G

Edited May 28, 2013 by Gees

[EdEarl]

I mentioned spiritual because some people believe consciousness is not part of the brain or its processes. I use Firefox, and for a while had no spell check in this forum, but spell check started working, why???

 

People who post here do not post on every thread. Do not take it personally. They merely like some topics and not others.

 

Enjoy

[Gees]

Of course, I agree that consciousness is part of the brain and it's processes, as long you don't try to say that it is exclusively in the brain. Conscious thought works through the brain, but conscious awareness is in all life. Anyone who does not agree with that needs to show me where grass has a brain, or they need to redefine what is life. Since all life is aware, the trick is to find out what different life forms are aware of, and when thought, memory, knowledge, instincts, emotions, self-awareness, and mind come into play, as they are all parts and aspects of consciousness.

 

MS (Multiple Sclerosis) has done a great job of scarring up my brain, cutting my vocabulary in half, reducing cognitive skills, trashing my memory, and blurring my vision--so I NEED spell check. I have Firefox also.

 

It is not so much that I take it personally, it is more that I feel that I am limited in regards to time, so I won't spend a great deal of time in a forum where no one shares my interest. But I have other questions, so if this does not pan out, I can make some requests in different fields of science. Conscious awareness is a huge subject.

 

G

[scilearner]

Hi Gees,

 

Welcome to the forum . Why is your question not on philosophy forum, that way you would get more responses http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/102-general-philosophy/

 

Unfortunately I fall into your e- category so I can not help. I liked ur categories though I don't know how the mind is formed, but if u want to know how it works, buddhism has some really nice ideas (u probably have already researched the area, it may or not interest you ). Anyhow that is all I have to add to this

[pwagen]

Here's a short excerpt from Jeff Hawkins' book "On Intelligence", which I can't recommend highly enough. While the book itself is mostly about how a brain works and how that relates to A.I., it has some very interesting thoughts on related issues, like consciousness.

We continued this line of argument--a yes you are, no I'm not kind of thing--until it was time to head up to dinner. I don't think I changed anyone's mind about the existence and meaning of consciousness. But I was trying to get them to realize that most people think consciousness is some kind of magical sauce that is added on top of the physical brain. You've got a brain, made of cells, and you pour consciousness, this magical sauce, on it, and that's the human condition. In this view, consciousness is a mysterious entity separate from brains. That's why zombies have brains but they don't have consciousness. They have all the mechanical stuff, neurons and synapses, but they don't have the special sauce. They can do everything a human can do. From the outside you can't tell a zombie from a human.

 

The idea that consciousness is something extra stems from earlier beliefs in élan vital--a special force once thought to animate living things. People believed you needed this life force to explain the difference between rocks and plants or metals and maidens. Few people believe this anymore. Nowadays we know enough about the differences between inanimate and animate matter to understand that there isn't any special sauce. We now know a great deal about DNA, protein folding, gene transcription, and metabolism. While we don't yet know all the mechanisms of living systems, we know enough about biology to leave out magic. Similarly, no longer do people suggest it takes magic or spirits to make muscles move. We have folding proteins that pull long molecules past one another. You can read all about it.

Jeff Hawkins, On Intelligence

Page 195

 

His point, in my interpretation, being; there's nothing special about consciousness. It's a side effect of our brains being the way they are. Or, to quote him from the page before the one above, "I think consciousness is simply what it feels like to have a cortex". After all, if you're looking for a biological difference between us and other animals, look no further than the neocortex.

[Gees]

Hi Gees,

 

Welcome to the forum . Why is your question not on philosophy forum, that way you would get more responses http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/102-general-philosophy/

 

Unfortunately I fall into your e- category so I can not help. I liked ur categories though I don't know how the mind is formed, but if u want to know how it works, buddhism has some really nice ideas (u probably have already researched the area, it may or not interest you ). Anyhow that is all I have to add to this

Hi Scilearner;

 

Thank you for the welcome, and yes, I would probably get more responses in the Philosophy forum, but would I get more answers? I doubt it. I have been to a lot of Philosophy forums and find that I have a tendency to ask questions that are unusual or different, so I really need to talk to someone who either studies or works in Psychology.

 

I don't know a great deal about the eastern philosophies/religions, but believe that the term "enlightenment" may describe a conscious foray into the un/subconscious part of the mind. This is interesting. Someone in another forum indicated that there is an eastern philosophy/religion that has uncovered different levels with regard to what I suspect is the unconscious mind, but he had no real information that I could check up on or learn about. I would like to know what he was talking about so that I could compare these "levels" with what the Psychiatrist/Psychologist, Dr. Blanco, discovered in the unconscious mind.

 

G

 

 

His point, in my interpretation, being; there's nothing special about consciousness. It's a side effect of our brains being the way they are. Or, to quote him from the page before the one above, "I think consciousness is simply what it feels like to have a cortex". After all, if you're looking for a biological difference between us and other animals, look no further than the neocortex.

Hi Pwagen;

 

Thank you for your response. Although interesting, this is a little off of the subject, as I am not really interested in intelligence. When Mr. Hawkins discusses consciousness, he appears to be specifically discussing human intelligence, and conscious thought. These are aspects of consciousness, but not conscious awareness in itself. Besides, everybody and their brother is studying intelligence, so they don't need my nose in there.

 

Rather than looking for biological differences between us and other species, I am looking for commonalities which will bring me to the root of the subject. All species are aware. All species have an instinct for survival. But all species do not show similarities in memory, emotion, thought, self-awareness, and maybe mind, so when and why do these different aspects emerge? And what bodily organs, chemicals, functions are these aspects attributable to? So studying consciousness by aspects, emotion, thought, instinct, memory, mind, etc., I am learning and considering things that are not normally questioned. It never hurts to consider things from a different perspective, and can be very enlightening.

 

At the moment, I am considering that emotion has a great deal of influence on what we call mind. Emotion is regulated by chemicals and hormones. Hormones are used to treat schizophrenia. Hormones are used to treat the elderly, who have problems dropping into REM sleep. A disruption of hormones, caused by starvation, lack of sleep, and other things, can help a Monk to reach enlightenment. All of these things relate to mind, so along with the other items considered in the OP, is emotion, chemical and/or hormones, related to the formation of mind? Maybe.

 

G

[EdEarl]

It is easy to learn about Buddhism as there are many on-line resources, including forums. Of course, many Buddhists have spiritual-religious beliefs. The current Dalai Lama said, “My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness," and the quote in my sig. below. I am not a spiritual or religious man, but I admire both Gandhi and Tenzin Gyatso.

[Gees]

EdEarl;

 

Buddhism is interesting, but the teachings are ancillary to my studies, so I won't be delving into that now. In one of the videos that you provided, it was mentioned that there is no theory of consciousness--and it is true--there is no theory. There are theories, lots of theories, but none that answer all of the questions. So for the past forty years or so, I have been looking at life and considering theories; theories from science, religion, philosophy, and the paranormal. What I have found is that almost all of the theories have some truth in them. There is a grain of truth that people try to explain, but while explaining this truth they inevitable incorporate other information to supplement the understanding--which corrupts the truth and the theory.

 

The problem is that conscious awareness is a vast subject which touches on every aspect of life and science and is difficult to comprehend, so if I had five lifetimes, I could not know enough. I need to work with other people; intelligent people; educated people.

 

In order to avoid the pit falls that others have encountered, I do not study consciousness by disciplines, such as science, religion, et al. I study it by aspects, so that I can see how the different aspects relate to consciousness, rather than how they relate to the discipline. Each discipline has taken their piece of knowledge about consciousness, and built a picture of what they think consciousness is, but the picture is incomplete and invalid. So I have essentially taken apart all of the pictures and study the small pieces for a grain of truth, to see which is part of consciousness and which is background to create the theory. When I find some small puzzle piece of truth, then I must validate it so that I know it is true.

 

I think that emotion, or chemicals and hormones in the brain, greatly influence the health and wholeness of mind, and may cause the formation of mind. This is the reason for this thread, to find out if I am right or wrong. If I am wrong, I need to throw this idea out. If I am right, then there are implications to consider.

 

1. A person in a vegetative state may well be in possession of a mind, as the chemicals are still there, even though they may have no neural function.

 

2. Near death experiences and ghostlike encounters immediately after death may be real, as the chemical makeup in the brain still exists. (Anyone who believes that this is nonsense needs to talk to some Hospice workers.)

 

3. Religion may not be so far off in their definition of a "soul", as a soul is a self that holds our thoughts and is essentially emotion. Though this does not confirm other religious beliefs, it is pretty amazing that they figured this out without the help of scientific methodology.

 

4. Does Autism and Asperger disorders have anything to do with chemical imbalances as they seem to be a problem with regard to the wholeness or health of mind?

 

5. Are we crazy to let Monsanto and other chemical companies produce whatever they want? Like giving an advanced chemical kit to a five year old?

 

All of these things, and more, might be worth considering if I am right. Does anyone have an answer?

 

G

[EdEarl]

You have made an ambitious task for yourself, I wish you luck.

 

I think I have exhausted whatever help I might provide. I am quite interested in the brain and artificial intelligence research, because I feel that scientific research can benefit from AI. While consciousness is interesting, it is not a personal quest.

 

If I find something you might be interested in, I will send you a message via this forum.