What are some cheap metals/ plastics that are heat resistant?

[jelowry87]

Hey everyone, I have a project that I am working on and I am in search of any material that is completely heat resistant up to about 150 degrees and does not change form, if there is such a substance out there. If anyone knows if there is a good heat resistant pant out there that would be awesome as well. Glad my title is grammatically correct...are*

 

Thanks,

-Jason-

Edited May 24, 2013 by jelowry87

[pwagen]

There are tons and tons of materials that are heat resistant, especially at such relatively low temperatures. If you give a hint on approximately what you'll be making, that should probably narrow the list down a bit. Other things to take into account would be how easy it is to work with, toughness, hardness etc.

 

As for paint, there are a lot of paints used for coating engines that are very very resistant, cheap, and easy to get your hands on. Your local car part supplier should be able to to supply you with some, or at least point you in the right direction.

[jelowry87]

Hey pwagon thanks for the response. The material that I am looking to work with is on the lines of plastic polypropylene. The product needs to be sturdy, not bend, and about 1/2 inch to 1 inch thick. I want to shape this product into an oval shape and be able to have it sit on hot 195 degree metal for at least 10 minutes without the bottom getting hot.

I want to be able to easily pick the product up from the bottom without burning my hand or any warmth at all. Having this product shaped in the right heat resistant material would be very ideal but also if there is paint that would last a long time under 195 degree circumstances would be great as well.

 

Any Ideas help and I am open to suggestions.

[Enthalpy]

+195°C is unattainable to polypropylene and difficult for a plastic, whose cost follow closely the heat resistance. Silicone would be half-way affordable in small amounts if this rubbery material is acceptable; maybe polyoxophenylene and other technical polymers, up to polyimide, but check the cost... Matweb is a compact source of data, Goodfellow an other one.

 

Could you take a metal or a ceramic? Pyrex for instance would be cheaper.

[John Cuthber]

"I want to shape this product into an oval shape and be able to have it sit on hot 195 degree metal for at least 10 minutes without the bottom getting hot."

 

If you put something on a piece of metal at 195C for ten minutes then it is going to get hot.

[jelowry87]

Yea that is true, but there has to be someway around it. Even if the material gets a little warm then that would be fine. Comes to my next thought: There has to be a metal that cools down when it feels heat. That could be very useful as well as long as it is not expensive, which it does sound like it could be.

[John Cuthber]

"Comes to my next thought: There has to be a metal that cools down when it feels heat."

No there doesn't.

[EdEarl]

There has to be a metal that cools down when it feels heat.

 

If you do not accept that no metal (or anything else) will cool down when heated, perhaps it will help us to understand the following: What have you experienced that makes you think such a metal exists. In other words, if we understand the cause of your misunderstanding, perhaps it will help us teach you.

[arc]

If you do not accept that no metal (or anything else) will cool down when heated, perhaps it will help us to understand the following: What have you experienced that makes you think such a metal exists. In other words, if we understand the cause of your misunderstanding, perhaps it will help us teach you.

I think some of those infomercial cooking products may be to blame. That heat resistant glove might also be the solution. I'm taking a guess that the material the gloves are made of is available in bulk for industrial apps. Maybe as a insulating sleeve tubing for high temperature locations. Probably for protecting wiring and plastics in automotive and aviation for example.

 

Or just buy a glove to pick up a metal ring or get some of the material and attach it onto, under or sleeve over a metal ring or possibly even a plastic one, then use the glove to pick it up.

 

Copper pipe comes in a soft variety known as L it will be the easiest pipe to shape into tight curves. It does not take any preheating like steel or even thermoplastics that you would be considering. What is a 1/2 inch dia. is actually 5/8 on the outside. Size denotes inside measurements. If you want something near 1/2 outside dia. get 3/8 inch. Depending on your design you can use larger or smaller dia.

 

Whether you use metal or a plastic with the sleeve just do proper testing. Slowly expose it to higher temperatures (a handheld butane torch like plumbers use work best NEVER GASOLINE you could die!) while using a proper thermometer and a clock to monitor the progress. Do it outdoors on dirt, brick or concrete away from buildings and combustibles with a water source like a hose and also a fire extinguisher. Just because nothing happened to it for 20 minutes of exposure doesn't mean it won't in an hour burn whatever your doing up. And plastics out-gas some pretty nasty vapors, use a proper respirator. Plan for the worst, it could happen! AND ONLY WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS PERMISSION. Parents and landlords hate this kind of crap and YOU and maybe them are legally libel.

[John Cuthber]

Arc,

since the OP is asking about temperatures near 200C, why are you suggesting testing with a blowtorch that will get to nearly 2000?

 

Jelowry, perhaps it would be better if you tell us what you are trying to do?

[EdEarl]

arc,

What thing you hold in hot water will become cold?

Edited May 29, 2013 by EdEarl

[arc]

--------------------CORRECTION REWRITE----------------------------

 

Plan for the worst, it could happen! AND ONLY WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS PERMISSION. Parents and landlords hate this kind of crap and YOU and them maybe held legally responsible.

Edited May 30, 2013 by arc

[EdEarl]

arc,

Just put hot water into a cup and put a coin (copper, nickle, silver, or gold) or a ring (copper, silver, gold) into the water, holding it with your fingers, and see if it gets cold or hot (finger thermometer). Do the same with a bit of aluminum from a can. Lots of kinds of plastic are available around the house, also glass and wood from a tree or bush.

[Phi for All]

I want to shape this product into an oval shape and be able to have it sit on hot 195 degree metal for at least 10 minutes without the bottom getting hot.

+195°C is unattainable to polypropylene and difficult for a plastic, whose cost follow closely the heat resistance.

If you put something on a piece of metal at 195C for ten minutes then it is going to get hot.

 

jelowry87, are you talking about 195° Fahrenheit or Celsius?

[EdEarl]

NASA used some really good ceramic insulators on the space shuttle. They were full of air bubbles and very light weight. You might be able to make a ceramic using cement, sand and soda water that will allow you to do your 195 degree thing. There is no way to keep the oval from heating some, but a ceramic insulator is your best chance, IMO. The ceramic needs to have many small cavities, and IDK if it can be done with cement. A filler with smaller particles than sand would probably work better, too.

[arc]

Arc,

since the OP is asking about temperatures near 200C, why are you suggesting testing with a blowtorch that will get to nearly 2000?

 

Jelowry, perhaps it would be better if you tell us what you are trying to do?

Point well taken, I use one all the time. Its my most used heat source. I have an electric heat gun that will put out 1500 f. But I can control the temp better with the torch. The shut off valve does little but adjustment for depleting fuel pressure. The temp control is all in the distance from the flame tip and rapid movement side to side. I use mine to soften old electrical tape on wires and to activate electrical insulating shrink tube. The sign industry I work in use them on plastic panels and car doors to soften the adhesive of vinyl lettering with no damage to plastic or paint. As they say Its all in the wrist.

 

I figured the thermometer would help someone unfamiliar with the technique. I have reservations about this kind of stuff. I believe in over engineering in these things. If someone says they need it to withstand 190 degrees whatever, does that account for mistakes. What if the heat source is capable of going as high as 500-600 degrees or higher. For safety it should have that capability. As a worst case scenario imagine that the stated temp has to do with some process like cooking. And so this apparatus is on a gas or electric burner set at the 190 something and worst yet it involves cooking oil. You see where I'm going, just a turn of the wrong dial and some distraction you have a big problem. I'm for a slow destruction testing of this kind of stuff, its cheap in materials and could provide some unexpected insight into the long range durability of this thing. Personally I would avoid all plastics and stick to metal and the insulating material.

Edited May 30, 2013 by arc

[jelowry87]

I am referring to 195 degrees Fahrenheit and not Celsius. I should have specified in the beginning and I am basically trying to make a round polypropylene plastic that when heated does not get hot on the bottom. The main source of the heat would be coming from above the object. I am allowing the top of the object to get hot but I need to keep the bottom at a regular temperature. I need to find a material that I can sub on the bottom part that will not get hot.

 

Thats another reason why I was considering the option of possibly finding a paint or ceramic that will last for a long time, (if not forever) that can withstand the heat at the lowest cost possible. I technically do not even have to have the whole bottom covered if it gets too expensive, but I am open to all options and opinions as well.

 

I also appreciate everyone's imput and feedback on the subject.

[Klaynos]

Would something simple like a concrete slab do you?

 

That's under 100 deg C?

 

But heating stuff will always warm up unless you actively cool one side of it which might be better for what you want having read your latest post. Zeroth law of thermodynamics.

[arc]

So this regards heat conducting down through the material from the top of the device to the bottom? You want to prevent heat transfer in the material? This sounds like a radiant heat source. Are you by chance a indoor gardener.

 

There are paints that resists heat but a thermal insulating paint sounds like NASA stuff with a low bang for big buck$ Thin coatings make lousy insulation.

Edited May 30, 2013 by arc

[jelowry87]

So this regards heat conducting down through the material from the top of the device to the bottom? You want to prevent heat transfer in the material? This sounds like a radiant heat source. Are you by chance a indoor gardener.

Haha no I am not a gardener and at first I thought the main reason the bottom was getting hot was because of the heat transfer but then I realized that the metal the object has to sit on gets almost equally as hot. So I think having a material that DOES actively cool down when it senses heat would be ideal, but sounds pricey.

 

Hey Klaynos, what kind of substance would be needed to cool down a heat source or are you referring to actually cooling down the source of heat by some electrical/manual means.

[EdEarl]

There are at least three possibilities:

1. insulator

2. insulator and heat-sink

3. insulator and peltier plate (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltier_plate#Peltier_cooling_plates)

 

The insulator and heat-sink would be best, unless you really really need to cool the hot spot well below ambient air temp.

 

The heat sink could be as simple as a copper or aluminum surface on top of an insulator. For example, use a ceramic square (e.g., ceramic floor tile) on bottom. Place an aluminum pan on the insulator Put your thing inside the aluminum pan. The heat will be transferred into the air by the aluminum pan--most of it. The insulator will keep the surface below cool enough to prevent damage, unless it is extremely sensitive to heat.

 

A peltier plate is cool on one side and hot on the other and uses electricity. Thus, it is a bit expensive.

[Klaynos]

Depending on how cool you want it and the ambient temperature a heat sink may be enough but I suspect you will need a active cooling (requires energy input) solution.

 

The metal it's resting on is probably getting hot because it has a high thermal conductivity and is acting as a poor heat sink.

[arc]

This guessing game is killing me. To help you we need to know what the heat source is. How far above the apparatus it is? You remove it after 10 minutes, how long is it allowed to cool down? Is the metal it sits on (lets call it the base) allowed to cool also during the same time? So this is what I am guessing this thing needs. You can reduce the conduction of heat from the metal (base) by reducing the contact area. Small protrusions on the bottom of the apparatus can cut down conductive heat immensely. Your next source is radiant heat from the surface of the metal (base), you can reduce its effect by painting the apparatus white or better yet silver or chrome. Lengthening the protrusions will reduce radiant heat proportionately. A sleeve of reflective material would insulate and reflect radiant heat. Covering the metal base in white will lower the absorption of heat, mirror will almost eliminate it, reducing the metal base's heat content would go a long way in reducing the heat content in the apparatus. arc

[jelowry87]

Okay. The heat source is a heat lamp that is about a 1 1/2 - 2 feet above the metal platform. The metal will not be allowed to cool down and I can not replace the metal with ceramic nor paint unless there is a invisible paint that would allow the metal to not get hot.

 

So basically the heat lamp and the metal base are the two factors that need to remain constant. The heat lamp and the metal are almost exactly the same as the ones they have in restaurants in the kitchen. The heat lamps in there get up to 195°F and the metal (chrome) window is the main source that gets hot from the heat lamp.

 

Some material that would not get hot on the bottom while sitting on a platform, and receiving heat from the heat lamp is what I am looking for.

[Klaynos]

How about something simple like a cork layer, these temperatures are not that hot. The bottom of the thing being heated will still get hot though because the, even if the heatlamp only warms up the top of the thing that heat will get conducted to the bottom.