homophobia and evolutionary psychology

[Moontanman]

Such imbalances be they a direct result of a persons Genetic predisposition to have them or the introduction of Chemical elements to cause changes on a Genetic Level via mutation...is still Genetic in it's nature.

 

As far as to your second statement...can you provide examples that would detail otherwise?

 

As far as being...Emotional? LOL!

 

I would...an...answer that bu...bu...but I am too broken up after reading your assertion. LOL!

 

Split Infinity

 

 

Actually the environment inside the womb can be influenced by many factors, not all of them genetic, some are environmental, lack of trace elements and vitamins, pathogens, injury, it's a long list...

[SplitInfinity]

Actually the environment inside the womb can be influenced by many factors, not all of them genetic, some are environmental, lack of trace elements and vitamins, pathogens, injury, it's a long list...

 

This is true...but since those women who have a lessor physiological ability to prevent their womb environment being effected in this manner will tend to either loose the fetus or have such a fetus born Homosexual and thus not reproduce...such traits will not be passed down and those women who's womb environment is less effected will have children that will reproduce....this is NATURAL SELECTION IN ACTION...thus EVOLUTION.

 

So it still all comes down to Genetic Predisposition.

 

Split Infinity

 

In my opinion that will lead to immediate confusion, and various implilcations completely muddled will be read into it - such as the notion that such a genetic predisposition toward homophobia could be selected by the influence of homosexual behavior on the individual's reproductive success or personal survival in any direct or easily visible manner.

 

As we see, any genetic predisposition for homophobia would seem to be positively correlated with whatever the genetic predisposition is toward homosexuality itself, possibly even the exact same genetic code - homophobia seems to be at least partly a culturally inculcated reaction against the predisposition for as experienced by the predisposed. So what is that a genetic predisposition toward?

 

I have been saying since I first posted upon this topic that I am CERTAIN that the Negative Feelings that I encounter upon viewing Male Homosexual Behavior...and it is not all behavior just behavior sexual in nature such as 2 Men French Kissing...etc...is due because of a Genetic Predisposition SPECIFIC TO MY HETEROSEXUALITY.

 

Now I am sure that to some extent such feeling might be generated to a certain degree by the Cultural stigma associated with Male Homosexuality...but since I support Gay Rights and Gay Marriage...as well I feel it is not my place or any others or group or government to tell a person or couple of any sexual orientation what they can or cannot do sexually or dictate what constitutes Marriage.

 

And even though I am disgusted when viewing 2 Men French Kissing and I am not comfortable around Homosexual couples expressing sexuality...I support their rights to do so and feel their Negative Reactions upon viewing WOMEN in a state of sexual arousal or women and men expressing sexuality...IS JUST AS NORMAL AS MY NEGATIVE FEELINGS VIEWING MALE HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY.

 

So I REJECT your statements declaring that for a person such as myself to have Negative Feelings upon viewing Male Homosexual Sexuality.

 

Split Infinity

[Moontanman]

This is true...but since those women who have a lessor physiological ability to prevent their womb environment being effected in this manner will tend to either loose the fetus or have such a fetus born Homosexual and thus not reproduce...such traits will not be passed down and those women who's womb environment is less effected will have children that will reproduce....this is NATURAL SELECTION IN ACTION...thus EVOLUTION.

 

So it still all comes down to Genetic Predisposition.

 

Split Infinity

 

No, in fact it can be due to things the womb has no control over and can happen to anyone, and please explain to me why homosexuals cannot reproduce...

 

 

 

 

I have been saying since I first posted upon this topic that I am CERTAIN that the Negative Feelings that I encounter upon viewing Male Homosexual Behavior...and it is not all behavior just behavior sexual in nature such as 2 Men French Kissing...etc...is due because of a Genetic Predisposition SPECIFIC TO MY HETEROSEXUALITY.

 

Now I am sure that to some extent such feeling might be generated to a certain degree by the Cultural stigma associated with Male Homosexuality...but since I support Gay Rights and Gay Marriage...as well I feel it is not my place or any others or group or government to tell a person or couple of any sexual orientation what they can or cannot do sexually or dictate what constitutes Marriage.

 

And even though I am disgusted when viewing 2 Men French Kissing and I am not comfortable around Homosexual couples expressing sexuality...I support their rights to do so and feel their Negative Reactions upon viewing WOMEN in a state of sexual arousal or women and men expressing sexuality...IS JUST AS NORMAL AS MY NEGATIVE FEELINGS VIEWING MALE HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY.

 

So I REJECT your statements declaring that for a person such as myself to have Negative Feelings upon viewing Male Homosexual Sexuality.

 

Split Infinity

 

 

You keep claiming this but you show no evidence for it, how about a citation to back up your assertions?

[MonDie]

Now I am sure that to some extent such feeling might be generated to a certain degree by the Cultural stigma associated with Male Homosexuality...but since I support Gay Rights and Gay Marriage...as well I feel it is not my place or any others or group or government to tell a person or couple of any sexual orientation what they can or cannot do sexually or dictate what constitutes Marriage.

 

This reminds of an experiment regarding religiosity and racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_orientation#Intrinsic_Religious_Orientation_and_Prejudice

Read the second paragraph under Intrinsic Religious Orientation and Prejudice, where it describes the movie experiment.

 

NOTE: I disagree with the conclusion that intrinsically religious people are generally unprejudiced.

It's possible that a better experimental design would have yielded a starker contrast.

 

Here is the point I want to make. Someone can be persuaded to embrace a cause that they wouldn't be inclined to embrace otherwise. Obviously, you believe in freedom, or to each his own, and you have taken that to encompass sexuality. But your gut reaction doesn't need to be genetic to be out of your control.

In the study I linked to, those white people obviously weren't genetically predisposed to avoid black people. If they were, black people should exhibit the behavior too. After all, a person's skin-color says next to nothing about that person's genetic traits. Thus, a more reasonable explanation is that they were conditioned to behave that way around black people. Behavioral psychologists are all about conditioning, from classical to operant to who knows what else. Your reaction might be the result of conditioning too. You described having a bad experience with some homosexual guys, but there could be subtler contributing factors too.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mondays Assignment: Die

[overtone]

 

I have been saying since I first posted upon this topic that I am

CERTAIN that the Negative Feelings that I encounter upon viewing Male

Homosexual Behavior...and it is not all behavior just behavior sexual in

nature such as 2 Men French Kissing...etc...is due because of a Genetic

Predisposition SPECIFIC TO MY HETEROSEXUALITY.

And I am pointing out that we hae quite a bit of evidence that contradicts your assumption there, including some from your own posting, and you have none in support of it.

 

Certainty in a matter of ignorance is not evidence.

[Moontanman]

Let me tell you that I am an AGNOSTIC and not only am I not religious but I disagree with a GREAT MANY THINGS that are written in the Old and New Testaments. How and for what ever possible reason you would come to such an idea and conclusion about me...well...I can only see this as YOU are making the assumption and the mistake of thinking....JUST BECAUSE I DO NOT ENJOY OR LIKE TO VIEW OR LISTEN TO ANYTHING SPECIFIC TO HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY...well at least as far as two men are concerned because I will admit I have had sexual relations with several couples and groups of Bi-Sexual Women as being a Signed and Touring Musician tends to allow me the ability to have such experiences...THAT I AM HOMOPHOBIC OR PERHAPS HAVE LATENT HOMOSEXUAL TENDENCIES THAT YOU PERHAPS BELIEVE I CANNOT COME TO TERMS WITH...LOL!

 

So you don't think that having sex with a man and a woman is indicative of at the very least bi sexual behavior? I am straight but not disgusted by homosexual behavior but I have never participated in sex with a woman and a man, first because I think it's abusive to the woman but mostly because i don't share with other men, sexual behavior with another man, even if it is with a woman as well qualifies as bi sexual behavior at the very least. And yes i have had many opportunities to have sex with couples, i was in my prime in the 70's when almost anything was allowed but sex with a man and a woman just wasn't on my agenda, it didn't repel me but I have just never been interested in sexual activity with other men, but evidently you were... busted dude, alpha male maybe, but that is bi sexual behavior at the very least...

[MonDie]

Alpha Male vs. Godzilla

 

 

 

 

---

 

So you don't think that having sex with a man and a woman is indicative of at the very least bi sexual behavior?

 

The terms homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual are generally used to describe attractions (i.e. erotic pathology), not sexual behavior.

[SplitInfinity]

So you don't think that having sex with a man and a woman is indicative of at the very least bi sexual behavior? I am straight but not disgusted by homosexual behavior but I have never participated in sex with a woman and a man, first because I think it's abusive to the woman but mostly because i don't share with other men, sexual behavior with another man, even if it is with a woman as well qualifies as bi sexual behavior at the very least. And yes i have had many opportunities to have sex with couples, i was in my prime in the 70's when almost anything was allowed but sex with a man and a woman just wasn't on my agenda, it didn't repel me but I have just never been interested in sexual activity with other men, but evidently you were... busted dude, alpha male maybe, but that is bi sexual behavior at the very least...

 

LOL! NO!

 

You misunderstood!

 

I have had sex with Bisexual WOMEN...not MEN! I have in fact had sex with more than one Bisexual woman at a time...many times as such women who follow the band tend to want to please us and some might be Genetically Predisposed to be Bisexual but I am fairly certain the majority of such women who are young and crave experiences...tend to want to impress us with their open sexuality as being in a signed touring band leads to a person such as myself having...SEEN IT ALL...these girls know this and they want to leave an impression.

 

Now as I said...I admit to not having issue or negative feelings in any manner whatsoever when it comes to Lesbian sexual activity or female Bisexual activity. Although I do tend to get a good laugh when I see a Butch dressed and acting girl ask me..."So...How about those Patriots?...as she does so in a deep masculine voice while standing as straight up as she can to look taller....but other than that...Women...Sexual Activity...No Issues.

 

When it comes to viewing Male Homosexual activity of a nature such as French Kissing or anything of a heavier duty sexual nature...I FREELY ADMIT EXPERIENCING A FEELING OF DISGUST.

 

This doesn't mean I think what these two men are doing is wrong or is something that should be against the law. It just means...I DO NOT ENJOY WATCHING IT! That's all there is to it and I do not think there is anything wrong in me feeling that way as it is PERFECTLY NORMAL TO DO SO.

 

Split Infinity

 

Alpha Male vs. Godzilla

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

The terms homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual are generally used to describe attractions (i.e. erotic pathology), not sexual behavior.

 

 

It is obvious that you have been victimized by a man or men that either said they were Alpha in their nature or you assumed as much.

 

Being ALPHA as far as Humans are concerned is not what you think it is. In the wild the Alpha Wolf is so by brute strength and obtains the leadership position by defeating all challenges and rivals. This wolf also gets his pick of females as well as eats first and is first in all things. Weak members of the pack are sometimes weeded out and killed by this Alpha.

 

Although this also happens in Humanity...such a Human Male is more akin to an @%$ Hole than an ALPHA MALE.

 

Being a TRUE Alpha Male is about protecting the group, making the right decisions, being a leader because you are CHOSEN TO BE...not because you sought out leadership or have a need to dominate others.

 

Being Alpha means that you know the group is only as strong as it's weakest link and to remove such a weak link instead of just FIXING THAT LINK...shows all that YOU ARE WEAK in doing so. A TRUE Alpha is capable of protecting the WHOLE GROUP...not just changing the group in order to make things easier.

 

When I was a kid I was involved in Scouting and I became an Eagle Scout as well as became a Staff Member of a Leaders Training Development Corps....I also was a Life Guard and in the summer would dedicate my time to teach Inner City Kids about Scouting, Nature, Forestry, Swimming and Water Survival, Woodland Survival and many other things.

 

Such Survival Skills and Training continued after I left Scouting as I would go on to teach Ocean Survival, Winter Survival, Jungle, Arctic, Desert and Survival Methods specific for many different latitudes. To teach such things is SERIOUS BUSINESS and in particular...in Arctic Survival...as part of the training...a person would have to Fall into Ocean Water wearing full gear...learn how that within less than 2 minutes...and depending upon temp. even less time...from the moment they got out of the water...and this had to be done asap if not...d.e.a.d....they had to learn how to remove their cloths, change into gear that they were taught to store wrapped in anything water proof or resistant they had...plastic, seal skin, walrus hide...or even wrapped and folded in such a manner that if these pack cloths were submerged because of the way they were rolled and folded...they would not get fully soaked.

 

I taught them how to make Ice Traps, Igloos...and making either of these takes a lot of skill and work...how to make a weapon out of a plastic SPORK...how to bait a seal at an opening in the ice and as the seal came on to the ice...slide a Ice Hole Cover...made out of Sea Ice...to block the animals retreat...and how to kill, gut and butcher such animals all the while looking over your shoulder for the inevitable Polar Bear who can smell Blood MILES away.

 

Now I have seen men who were staff on such training programs be THROWN OUT OF THE PROGRAM...because they THOUGHT they were Alpha as for them...it was more important for them to feel superior and dominant over those they trained rather than JUST TRAIN THEM.

 

That is the difference...and I think you have at some time in the past been victimized by those who thought they were Alpha.

 

Split Infinity

[overtone]

That's all there is to it and I do not think there is anything wrong in me feeling that way as it is PERFECTLY NORMAL TO DO SO.

Whether or not you are "normal" - for your culture and time, of course - has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

 

Neither does the working definition of alpha male - completely irrelevant.

 

Why do you insist on such irrelevant matters?

Edited June 15, 2013 by overtone

[krash661]

what is normal ?

 

what's normal for the spider,

is chaos for the fly.

[Moontanman]

Alpha male has nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual...

[SplitInfinity]

Alpha male has nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual...

 

You are correct. Ones Sexual Orientation has no bearing upon whether one is Alpha or not.

 

Split Infinity

 

Whether or not you are "normal" - for your culture and time, of course - has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

 

Neither does the working definition of alpha male - completely irrelevant.

 

Why do you insist on such irrelevant matters?

 

Your statement is indicative of why you do not understand this issue.

 

What you think is IRRELEVANT...is very much RELEVANT TO MANY OTHER PEOPLE.

 

Unless you come to understand this...you will never find common ground with others and be able to take into account how others feel and respond.

 

Split Infinity

[iNow]

You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong.

[MonDie]

Alpha male has nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual...

 

But it apparently has something to do with gender, despite having nothing to do with reproduction per Split's definition. I suggest that we ditch the sexist pseudopsychology posing as pseudoecology.

 

You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong.

 

That was very alpha-like, iNow.

[SplitInfinity]

You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong.

 

And this is the reason that issues like this exist.

 

We are not discussing whether a person would be wrong for wanting to shoot another person who raped or killed their wife or husband. We are not talking about if it is wrong to feel anger or disgust when we read about what a Pedophile did to some poor kid.

 

If we were and a person said..."Well...I don't think it's right for anyone to be disgusted reading about what a person who like to have sex with young kids." I am quite sure not only would I be saying..."WHAT!? Are you crazy!? How can you feel it's wrong for me to feel disgust reading about what a Pedophile has done to a child!?"....but you would as well.

 

Now in my case where I am saying I feel disgust when seeing two Men French Kiss...you are telling me that my feelings are MISGUIDED, IGNORANT AND WRONG.

 

Now this is no where to the same extent of an issue as the aforementioned but in both cases a person or persons feels DISGUSTED...both myself and I am quite certain you as well upon hearing someone saying that they feel it is wrong for another to feel DISGUST upon reading about a Pedophiles attack of a child................and ME saying I feel DISGUST when I view two men French Kissing.

 

But you feel I am misguided, ignorant and wrong to feel this disgust viewing the two men in very much the same way the person who feels another to be misguided, ignorant and wrong for both you and I feeling DISGUST about the Pedophiles actions.

 

Now in NO WAY AM I COMPARING HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY TO PEDOPHILIA...I am comparing how different people feel and believe different things and whether such things are right or wrong or have a need to be stopped or are perfectly legitimate are based on a very complex and varying Genetic, Psychological, Cultural and Religious reasons.

 

For you to feel a person or group of people is doing something that is wrong or misguided...and you think along the lines of the way your quoted reply reads above...that being...quote..."You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong."...end quote.....

 

 

...well then you should realize that...you and others like you that don't give two craps....are not only part of the problem but also...for you to think like this does not help the issue nor is it a way of thinking that is needed to bridge the gap between different schools of thought.

 

Your way of thinking is very much the same as when Gay Rights activists in Boston filed suit to allow them to march in the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade as OPENLY GAY IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN. They knew ahead of time what a sensitive issue this was among the very religious Irish American Community and the result of them getting a court order to allow them to march was the CANCELLING OF THE BOSTON ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE....the largest in the U.S. and Largest in the WORLD.

 

Several MILLION PEOPLE and over 600,000 children under 13 years old were disappointed in the cancellation and this set back Gay Rights years and put all New England against the Gay Rights activists.

 

If they had asked to march just like any other Irish American's their would not have been an issue and you certainly don't see anyone in that parade holding up a sign that say's...HEY HO LET'S GO HETERO! They told Parade organizers they would be marching with signs advocating Homosexuality as well as men would be dressing IN DRAG.

 

So although I have no issue with ANYONE marching in the parade I don't think such a parade is the place to advocate a persons SEXUAL ORIENTATION!

 

So according to your way of thinking...the Parade Organizers are misguided, ignorant and wrong and PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON'T GIVE TWO CRAPS ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK.

 

Well....THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

 

Split Infinity

 

But it apparently has something to do with gender, despite having nothing to do with reproduction per Split's definition. I suggest that we ditch the sexist pseudopsychology posing as pseudoecology.

 

 

That was very alpha-like, iNow.

 

Monday...his response is not that of an ALPHA in any way shape or form.

 

An ALPHA...would NEVER respond like that as anyone that is Alpha IS CONCERNED how other feel, think and respond. Whether the Alpha agrees or disagrees with a person or groups thinking or idealism makes no difference as the Alpha by nature is HARDWIRED to have the need to protect the group and whether such concern has a base in obtaining as much knowledge as possible about a person or others for the purpose of developing a plan of action or a methodology of dealing with such people or groups....or if such concern is based upon being able to understand the thinking and idealism of members of those an Alpha is charged with protecting.

 

An Alpha would NEVER state they don't care or actually show no interest or ignore a potential problem or issue that either is occurring or will occur at a later date.

 

Split Infinity

[Ophiolite]

So according to your way of thinking...the Parade Organizers are misguided, ignorant and wrong and PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON'T GIVE TWO CRAPS ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK.

 

Well....THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

As a disinterested observer I think part of the problem here may be that you come across as a bit of an arrogant prat. Consequently some members are reacting more to the format of your message than to the message itself. I imagine you are going for honesty and frankness, but - from my POV - it's coming across as self righteous smugness. That's a pity, since there are elements of your thesis that seem plausible and certainly worthy of more respect than I think they are currently getting. It might be worth considering a style change - or not. Your choice, obviously.

[Ringer]

SplitInfinity, I think you are taking all of this way too personally. That seems to be making almost all of your posts very long with little to no actual information on whatever it is you're arguing. Not to mention in your last post the very first thing you did was make a false equivalence between things that are both against the law and physically/mentally damaging with consensual attractions. Fallacious arguments like that are what people don't give two craps about, and they are the bulk of your posts with life details thrown in.

[SplitInfinity]

SplitInfinity, I think you are taking all of this way too personally. That seems to be making almost all of your posts very long with little to no actual information on whatever it is you're arguing. Not to mention in your last post the very first thing you did was make a false equivalence between things that are both against the law and physically/mentally damaging with consensual attractions. Fallacious arguments like that are what people don't give two craps about, and they are the bulk of your posts with life details thrown in.

 

Ringer...I actually am not taking this issue personally but I can understand why you might think so due to my typing style. LOL!

 

What I DO feel is important is to point out WHY an issue exists and what can be done to work things out...and this working things out would be specific to communication, understanding and finding common ground.

 

I do not think it is helpful or beneficial for anyone to say or think that just because another person or group thinks and feels and believes differently than I do that there is something wrong with that person or group or there is something that must be forcefully changed.

 

I support Gay Rights and Gay Marriage. I do not feel that anyone who does not has something wrong with them or is Homophobic because they do not support these issues.

 

As well I do not think it is anyone's place to tell another what they can or cannot do as long as it does not hurt anyone.

 

Obviously...some here feel it is their place to tell others they are doing something wrong and they are misguided, ignorant and wrong for doing, acting or feeling a certain way. I reject this notion.

 

Split Infinity

 

As a disinterested observer I think part of the problem here may be that you come across as a bit of an arrogant prat. Consequently some members are reacting more to the format of your message than to the message itself. I imagine you are going for honesty and frankness, but - from my POV - it's coming across as self righteous smugness. That's a pity, since there are elements of your thesis that seem plausible and certainly worthy of more respect than I think they are currently getting. It might be worth considering a style change - or not. Your choice, obviously.

 

I would think that the term...SELF-RIGHTEOUS...would much more aptly fit those who are telling me that I am wrong, misguided and ignorant in feeling disgust when I might happen to view two Homosexual men French Kissing.

 

Just who are these people to think, believe and be so self-righteous to judge me?

 

Split Infinity....Prat? Really? LOL!

[Ophiolite]

I would think that the term...SELF-RIGHTEOUS...would much more aptly fit those who are telling me that I am wrong, misguided and ignorant in feeling disgust when I might happen to view two Homosexual men French Kissing.

 

Just who are these people to think, believe and be so self-righteous to judge me?

 

Split Infinity....Prat? Really? LOL!

Well, as I said, it was obviously your choice. I've offered you a perception that I thought might have been of some aid to you in getting your point across. You believe, I think, that my perception is flawed. Again, fair enough. Keep in mind that I did not say you were an arrogant prat, I pointed out that was how your posting style tended to make you seem.

 

Judging by some of the responses you have received, I suspect several members have gained a similar impression. I'm mildy surprised that you wouldn't want to alter that perception so that members and lurkers could focus on your message.

[Gian]

Id no idea my simple question was going to generate such aggravation. Can we get back to the original point please? with the proviso that a phobia is NOT ( as far as I know) 'hate' -like racism- which is personal A phobia is an irrational aversion. Eg I know of no racist who has a phobia of ethnic difference, it is all nurtured

 

I just wondered if the irrational aversion to gay sex - and i emphasise gay sex not homosexuality per se- by some straight men (many of whom are not actually gay-haters and may be well disposed) has some darwinian-style survival advantage deep within us.

 

replies concise and to the point please. it's gonna take me weeks to read all the above.

GIAN x x x

Edited June 16, 2013 by Gian

[Ophiolite]

1. We have not quantified the extent (intensity, duration, and range[i.e.total numbers]) of aversion felt by some heterosexual men to gay sex. We have not established what percentage of that aversion may be concealing a suppressed homosexuality. Without these numbers it is impossible to tell whether this expressed aversion is a chance fluctutation, with no evolutionary significan whatsoever.

 

2. While the genetic element of homosexuality seems well established I continue to be puzzled by what may have been extensive homosexual practices in the Greek city states. So, contrary to consensus opinion and misapplied political correctness, I strongly suspect a cultural aspect to the inclination. And then, on the other hand, there are the bonobos. Since we cannot say with clarity why the gay trait arises, it is even more difficult to say what benefit a reaction to it would constitute.

 

3. Perhaps the simplest explanation is the best. If males were not averse to it our reproductive rates would fall.

 

 

Re- what you have described as "so much aggravation". Remember that this is a discussion forum. Your question has generated a boat load of discussion. Ultimately these threads are not about the OP or their question, but about the rough and tumble of debate it generates.

[SplitInfinity]

Well, as I said, it was obviously your choice. I've offered you a perception that I thought might have been of some aid to you in getting your point across. You believe, I think, that my perception is flawed. Again, fair enough. Keep in mind that I did not say you were an arrogant prat, I pointed out that was how your posting style tended to make you seem.

 

Judging by some of the responses you have received, I suspect several members have gained a similar impression. I'm mildy surprised that you wouldn't want to alter that perception so that members and lurkers could focus on your message.

 

You know what is funny?

 

I replied by typing the word...Prat?

 

You replied to that in a manner where you felt I was misunderstanding that you were not calling me this as you once again stated you felt others might feel this way about me due to the way I post.

 

If you will notice I only referenced the word...PRAT...as well as I added a...?

 

The reason for this is not because I thought you were calling me this....it was because I couldn't believe there were still people living that used the word! LOL!

 

Split Infinity

[Ophiolite]

If you will notice I only referenced the word...PRAT...as well as I added a...?

 

The reason for this is not because I thought you were calling me this....it was because I couldn't believe there were still people living that used the word! LOL!

I think we already knew that you aren't British, but thanks for the confirmation. Now, would you like to give Gian a concise answer to his question?

[Gian]

1. We have not quantified the extent (intensity, duration, and range[i.e.total numbers]) of aversion felt by some heterosexual men to gay sex. We have not established what percentage of that aversion may be concealing a suppressed homosexuality. Without these numbers it is impossible to tell whether this expressed aversion is a chance fluctutation, with no evolutionary significan whatsoever.

 

2. While the genetic element of homosexuality seems well established I continue to be puzzled by what may have been extensive homosexual practices in the Greek city states. So, contrary to consensus opinion and misapplied political correctness, I strongly suspect a cultural aspect to the inclination. And then, on the other hand, there are the bonobos. Since we cannot say with clarity why the gay trait arises, it is even more difficult to say what benefit a reaction to it would constitute.

 

3. Perhaps the simplest explanation is the best. If males were not averse to it our reproductive rates would fall.

 

 

Re- what you have described as "so much aggravation". Remember that this is a discussion forum. Your question has generated a boat load of discussion. Ultimately these threads are not about the OP or their question, but about the rough and tumble of debate it generates.

Thanks for a sensible answer.

I agree; if there were not that aversion yes we wouldnt reproduce so well. So it does imply something endogenous. If that's accurate, people should not dismiss aversion to gay sex as 'hate' not those who feel it as 'queer bashers.' As people often say about gays, homosex-phobes can't awlays help it.

Anyone knows of any research I'd be grateful. Cheers GIAN x x x x

Edited June 17, 2013 by Gian

[Delta1212]

 

You know what is funny?

 

I replied by typing the word...Prat?

 

You replied to that in a manner where you felt I was misunderstanding that you were not calling me this as you once again stated you felt others might feel this way about me due to the way I post.

 

If you will notice I only referenced the word...PRAT...as well as I added a...?

 

The reason for this is not because I thought you were calling me this....it was because I couldn't believe there were still people living that used the word! LOL!

 

Split Infinity

When did the population of Great Britain die off, exactly?