Is there such thing? Hydrogen Chloride??

[fallen_6666]

Wouldn't the HCl react with the water?

 

HCl + H20 -> Cl something + H30

acid base conjugate base conjugate acid??

 

or am i compeletely off on this?

[jdurg]

Yes, it does ionize in water, but in the same way that table salt does. If you remove the water, the HCl comes right back.

[YT2095]

how refreshing, the thread`s Moderated itself and actualy gotten BACK on Topic again

 

I`ll be out of a job soon!

 

but try to keep the Drug garbage out of it, if ya don`t mind

[budullewraagh]

Wouldn't the HCl react with the water?

 

HCl + H20 -> Cl something + H30

acid base conjugate base conjugate acid??

yeah, i suppose you could say the HCl ionization is "catalyzed" by water (for lack of a better word).

HCl+H2O-->Cl- + H3O+

acid base conjbase conjacid

altho i hate thinking of it as H3O+...

[Gilded]

The day threads become completely self-moderated, Sayo has to bitch at someone in real life. ) (OK bad joke, please don't slit my jugular with a rusty knife, dear sir :<< )

 

Anyway, even though YT said it's good that we got out of the drug zone, I must add that a friend of mine sold a few grams of potato flour for about 30$ or so.

 

"Yes, it does ionize in water, but in the same way that table salt does."

 

Well sort of in the same way, but then again in a bit different way.

[ed84c]

The day threads become completely self-moderated' date=' Sayo has to bitch at someone in real life. ) (OK bad joke, please don't slit my jugular with a rusty knife, dear sir :<< )

[/quote']

 

According to his website, he does

 

Potatoe flour, why would that ionize?

[Gilded]

"Potatoe flour, why would that ionize?"

 

Eh? I just mentioned my friend sold it for good money.

[Hexaditon]

To open my post I will provide my soapbox speech. I came across these forums looking for a particular synthesis reaction. Why it landed me here - the joking gods only know. When I looked through only a couple of the abundant threads I frowned..... no really I became sad. The quality of the information being passed between theses "chemists" had the quality of or beneath the ACB (anarchist cookbook)... and I would even question if the overall understanding of chemistry would allow the members here to take that in the proper, insulting manenr.

 

I did not initially feel it necessary to register just to make some posts, try to fix up errors, try to clarify topics, try to enlighten the naive.... but every thread was more and more pushing. A group of amateur chemists coming together to improve their knowledge is marvellous ... but a group of children who never read their high-school chem books passing back and forth - and reinforcing false information is not beneficial to anybody. If I was moderator I would first instill research techniques in my members. I would go by the rather successful 'no spoonfeeding' policy to push individuals to learn how to use proper resources to get proper information.... for it is sad to see people ask easily found questions to only get high inaccurate answers. However, I am not the moderator nor do I know the moderator's objective; therefore I pass no judgement on the moderator and none of these depressed words are intended to inflict him/her/them - even if a sad amount of information provided by one was indeed inaccurate aswell. I am just advocating the pursuit for real science and proper information from proper sources. Lurking high-level forums to pick up bits and pieces of information wouldn't be a bad idea neither.

 

Off my soap-box... If I still have you listening then I might still have some hope in teaching somebody something. Let's go over a bit of information on 'hydrogen chloride'. To answer the first question of the thread starter 'does hydrogen chloride really exist'.... well a quick search at http://www.google.com for "hydrogen chloride" would give you a definite answer..... yes.... it REALLY does amazingly as-a-matter-of-factly exist.

 

Now with your evaporate the water comment.... there seems to be this phatom among this forum that everyone believes that water has the lowest boiling point than any other material or something along the lines that water will always vaporize first..... Why? I don't know.... not even intuition would provide that. What if you evaporate the water?? You'll have an empty pot... because the HCl will vaporize preferrably over H2O.... This distillation concept needs to be studied. It seems that everyone only read the couple pages in their chem class required to get a C on the test. Getting ahold of a practical organic chem book would not hurt at all. You can get them free online if you know where to look. Vogels 3rd opens with a very informative distillation information - with equations and all. Google it. Anyhow HCl has a boiling point of -85oC yeah it'll surely vaporize first. The stuff fumes by the time it's 35%.

 

Has for the bonding question and what it looks like.... Another google problem that will answer. It looks like HI ... it looks like HBr.... it looks like HF - Except it's a chlorine halogen - Still very polar and covalent with the chlorine raping the hydrogen of that electron leaving the hydrogen more electrically positive. It has a dipole moment of oh... like 1.1... 1.0something I don't remember look it up. This is big cause of it's strong solubility.

 

Now if you want HCl then do some scans for manufacture processes. Industrially I believe it is prepared with the combustion of H2 in a Cl2 saturated atmosphere. H2 + Cl2 --> 2HCl

Pretty simple huh? Not all that practical for the home chemist. Anhydrous HCl can be useful in certain home experiments - including home improvised explosive prepatory processes. It can be prepared with NaCl (table salt) and conc. H2SO4 ... concentrated as in at it's azeotrope with water (98%). A double opening flask is provided the proper proportions of NaCl and the sulfuric acid is dripped in the flask at one opening (stopcocked sepertory funnel can be used here... should be used here - but if you're like me you don't have those lampworking skills to make a decent one nor the money to buy one). The reaction with NaCl and H2SO4 evolves HCl which will be passed through a dessicetor ... Ideally CaCl2 (used to keep road ice from evolving - look at your hardware store) which will suck out any moisture leaving you with dry hydrogen chloride gas that can be collected or bubbled through or whatever you want. Sodium sulfate will be left in the solution in the flask with both acid impurities.

 

If I am in error some where - bring it up

This was typed from memory so I admit that I am very prone to mistake.

I should not be your only source of information - if you decide to reproduce this procedure I'd recommend looking it up first.

 

-Justin

[budullewraagh]

i challenge you

[Hexaditon]

Oh do you? Wonderful. Marvelous. I'm challenged but then again I am not.

 

Well that post was non-informative.

If you wish to debate then propose an argument.

Otherwise, you are not developing rapport with mindlessness.

 

-me

2,2',4,4',6,6'-hexanitrodiphenylmethane

[budullewraagh]

posts don't have to be informative. i'd actually know the way this forum works a bit more than you. yes, yes you are challenged. that which is in question is far too subjective to one's opinion and less than possible to test

[Hexaditon]

Well we hoped you would know chemistry by now, but it is evident that you really for the most part don't; So how are we going to be so certain about your knowledge of the forum's mechanics. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that the posts on this forum, as you put it, can be completly useless.

 

Sure - I bet you can convince the moderators that they had that in mind.

But let's break down grammar because we need to on your last sentence....

 

"that which is in question is far too subjective to one's opinion and less than possible to test"

 

subjective meaning opinionated in the context you put it

You are saying what is challenged is far to opinionated to one's opinion.

 

Well opinions are usually opinionated... I don't think you're telling anyone anything new. However - saying it is impossible to test the questions is not just attempt to be mysterious and ambigous again. And nowhere in that statement do you give reason to why the question can not be brough to light. Merely opinions are opinions and it's not possible to test whatever it is.

 

You can slap on words - but you are appealing to higher intellects. These aren't the kids at your middle school who just look at you funny when you say high-syllable nonsense. I'm sure the people of this forum can, as can I, break down meanings. Your method is ineffective.

 

So without ambiguity ... please... What is the challenge?

[budullewraagh]

"but it is evident that you really for the most part don't"

well, as you can see from other threads, i apparently know a bit more than you about chem. funny how that works.

 

"subjective meaning opinionated in the context you put it

You are saying what is challenged is far to opinionated to one's opinion."

 

Main Entry: 1sub·jec·tive

Pronunciation: (")s&b-'jek-tiv

Function: adjective

1 : of, relating to, or constituting a subject : as a obsolete : of, relating to, or characteristic of one that is a subject especially in lack of freedom of action or in submissiveness b : being or relating to a grammatical subject; especially : NOMINATIVE

2 : of or relating to the essential being of that which has substance, qualities, attributes, or relations

3 a : characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind : PHENOMENAL -- compare OBJECTIVE 1b b : relating to or being experience or knowledge as conditioned by personal mental characteristics or states

4 a (1) : peculiar to a particular individual : PERSONAL <subjective judgments> (2) : modified or affected by personal views, experience, or background <a subjective account of the incident> b : arising from conditions within the brain or sense organs and not directly caused by external stimuli <subjective sensations> c : arising out of or identified by means of one's perception of one's own states and processes <a subjective symptom of disease> -- compare OBJECTIVE 1c

5 : lacking in reality or substance : ILLUSORY

 

i reiterate:

i am saying that what is in question is the subject at hand which happens to be judged by one's opinion

 

"far to opinionated"

speaking of grammatical errors...

 

"What is the challenge?"

i challenge the accuracy of your apparent belief that my intelligence is not up to par with that of your own

[Hexaditon]

How about you go to google and you look for 'subjective' used in a sentence.

Maybe that will give you a better idea on how it should be used.

 

And that was not the initial challenge - don't shift face now.

[budullewraagh]

i prefer vivisimo to google. i know how to use the word "subjective". if you have a problem with the way in which i use it, and would like to propose another way for me to use it, feel free to do so.

 

that was the initial challenge. you have no reason to believe it was not.

[Hexaditon]

Pop-quiz: If a news station is SUBJECTIVE, what is it saying about the news station?

And this isn't the SAT so no multiple guess.

 

Then the whole point of posting "I challenge you" was an egotistical way to amend your feeling that something might view you inferior?

 

Ok - understood. Then everything is clear.

[budullewraagh]

you cannot describe a news station as being "subjective"

 

you can't make multiple answers on the SAT and receive any credit.

 

i challenge you because you're a pompous bastard and you need to know your place

[Hexaditon]

You can describe a news sation as being subjective.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22news+is+subjective%22

You'll have to argue with every person that uses the word subjective.

 

Subjective in that context is the opposite of objective.

It is bias - slanted.... oh here it comes... opinionated.

 

But it's ok if english isn't your strong point... Just let it be a lesson to you - don't use words that you don't know the meaning to.

[budullewraagh]

yes, you can say that a news station is "of, relating to, or constituting a subject" followed by something about the actual subject

[Sayonara]

There's going to be a slap-down if this carries on.

[YT2095]

Hexa:

 

put your self righteuos handbag down and stop bashing Budl around the head with it!

 

IF you have beter information to share, then DO SO!

but NOT in a manor befitting that of a Child!

 

seriously! share what your ideas with us, we`ll certainly listen, but with your current attitude, you`ll be on your own, and NO ONE will want to listen to you

[Hexaditon]

I believe I was sharing my thoughts... the first post I made should display that.

It is still there to be providing.

But I guess the significance of my post was sadly drowned in a conversation that started with a vague "I challenge you" - which proved to be not only of no value after all, but wasteful.

 

I can tell you all about the day I was having that day that brought it in me to desire to make someone blindly stupid experience a rude awakening... I can go on and on about me - but then who would care?

 

Self-righteous or not, I do like to know I am wrong when I am wrong. And when one suggests that I am wrong I try to get past the bullshit and bring out my error... And it goes on. I go to forums not to make myself glorious - I feel better making someone feel moronic than projecting myself as wonderful... this isn't the environment that can feed my ego as much as my selffish self would like - instead, I go to these forums for an exchange of information. To learn what I do know and to clarify my faults.

 

So it is important to me that the errors of what I think I know are brought into clear light; It is my philosophy that I should strive to iron-out any false beliefs I may hold. The self-righteous aspect of me perhaps is when I enforce my philosophy on others where I believe that THEY to should endeavor to remove their false beliefs.

 

And if I'm nasty in the process - there's probally fair reason for it.

 

 

But blah blah blah anyhow - my content is still in my first post for review.

-Hexaditon

[YT2095]

Self-righteous or not' date=' I do like to know I am wrong when I am wrong.

And if I'm nasty in the process - there's probally fair reason for it.

 

-Hexaditon[/quote']

 

well your attitude was and has been wrong (in your other posts in other threads too), and I`m pointing that out

 

and there`s NEVER a "fair reason" to be NASTY, I`m pointing that out too

 

pressent data and opinion by all means! we invite that! thinly veiled flames are most certainly not welcome here though.

I`m sure you understand, and the reasoning behind my address to you.

[nebulan]

i can a sure you that hydrochloric acid is real i have done many experements on it

[jdurg]

i can a sure you that hydrochloric acid is real i have done many experements on it

 

Hydrogen chloride and hydrochloric acid are two completely different things.