Homos Vs. Hetros..again

[Sayonara]

I don't know if your testing me, but I thought I answered the question. Either way, I'm beginning to realize that your moral values are much different that mine are and so this question will never arrive at an answer that will satisfy both of us.

I am not testing you, nor do I think we necessarily have to come to an agreement. I'm just curious as to how you arrived at these highly defined beliefs about what is normal, and what is moral. I have a specific interest in the reason why if a gay couple do something, it's bad, but if a straight couple do it, it's ok.

 

 

Please don't ban me

 

 

I think Phi pretty much addressed the rest of your post in much the same way I would have done.

[Bettina]

Btw, imo, you're mom made the biggest mistake a person could ever make, and I'll bet she regrets it with every fiber of her being.

 

Doubt it very much. We still live in the same house and she's never called. I cried a million tears which is why my emotions are such as they are. No matter now, my dads female friend has been a blessing for the last two years as are the couple across the street and my new senior friends.

 

This is why I'm so sensitive to children and real parents. Biased I know.

Thanks for the kind words about banning.

 

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Sayonara....I don't know if my answers can be unbiased, but I do know this.

I look at the problem from a kids point of view having to go thru all of the school years with two dads or two moms without being ridiculed and teased in every class for every year of school life. Kids will be cruel. They can tolerate a divorced couple, but not gay parents. The child would be crucified.

I was teased a little for not having a mom....but NO way as bad as what they would go thru.

Thanks for easing my fears of being banned

 

(but I'm not done with this and look forward in finding out if others share my feelings)

 

Bettina

[Sayonara]

I am sure that a lot of children in that position would be bullied, but is that a reason not to create a family unit, or is it simply highlighting the failure of the bullies' teachers and parents to teach tolerance?

 

There are many ways in which people might live that will give others cause to harrass them. The issue is that the other party has a problem that they need to address.

 

Of course, that's not a very practical thing to tell a child, but the endemic culture of bullying and persecution in schools (and society in general) has to end. Developing a better understanding of what the problems actually are is a good place for anyone to begin.

[Bettina]

Of course, that's not a very practical thing to tell a child

 

Exactly......watch out....you may be coming down to my level

 

Bettina

[Sayonara]

We may have a common point of reference, but there's a clear difference between identifying the problem and pretending it's something else.

[Bettina]

We may have a common point of reference, but there's a clear difference between identifying the problem and pretending it's something else.

 

I know what the problems of society are and I know why I think the way I do. I also believe you are looking at it in a scientific manner which is inherintely blue and I'm looking at it from the heart of a child which is red. Like it or not, the children will bear the full brunt of ridicule for years because of the choices the parents made. That is a fact.

 

Your friend

Bettina

[john5746]

As a child growing up I expect to have a real mother and father' date=' or a divorced and remarried pair, or even just a father or just a mother, or even be adopted. All these are morally normal. I don't expect to grow up with two dads and no mother. Those people you claim as "normal" didn't play the cards they were dealt. They chose them.

There are so many NORMAL couples praying and hoping to adopt, I find it disgusting that they would place a girl or boy with gay or lesbian couple.

Sorry....I don't want to offend anyone but it's just not right, and if it were up to me I would make it a law.

Bettina[/quote']

 

I don't want any child to be raised in an interracial family, or interreligious family or have a handicapped parent... let's ban them also.

 

Once we find a "gay gene", lets abort gay babies also. Wouldn't want parents to have to suffer with that problem either.

 

If there is a GOD, he will give you a gay child, so that you may learn love and respect.

[Coral Rhedd]

Ok....forgetting the school embarassment for every year of your life' date=' trying to hide while sitting in church with two dads holding hands, the ridicule and staring, not having any friends over because their real parents object, how about this from personal experience.

 

[/quote']

 

Backtracking a little, did it ever occur to you that if you had two dads you would probably be attending a different church -- one that is accepting of homosexual couples? Or maybe you would not be attending church at all? And maybe you would have an entirely different attitude toward homosexuality and many, many other things?

 

As to your abandonment by your mother, I believe you see your mother from the perspective provided by the family unit you are now in. She may be a dreadful person or she may not. I know this for certain: If you have a child of your own someday, you will no doubt think of your mother as a weak and foolish person to have given up so much.

[Bettina]

If there is a GOD, he will give you a gay child, so that you may learn love and respect.

 

I don't know much about you since you hide your avatar, personal info, and everything else that may have helped me understand why you would have said something like that to me.

 

What I have learned though, is that being on a public BB I am open to minds that help me understand and minds that don't.

 

Bettina

[Bettina]

If you have a child of your own someday

I intend to very much

 

you will no doubt think of your mother as a weak and foolish person to have given up so much.

I already do and much more.

 

Thank you...

Bettina

[john5746]

I am an unbeliever. I live in South Carolina. You would consider me "old"

 

What I said seems rash I guess. Let me put it in context. You are a girl who feels unloved by her mother. You have a problem with gays apparently.

 

So, if you had a gay child, how would you react? Would you love him/her? If they wanted to raise a child would you be happy for him/her?

 

I find it helpful to personalize things.. For example, war in Iraq. Would I fight in that war? Would I want my son to do so? If some other country bombed my house, would I find that liberating? If the President was Islamic and thought all Christians were destined for hell, how would I feel about that.

 

Have I helped?

[-Demosthenes-]

I’ve abstained from writing in this thread for obvious reasons. But I think I’d like to say something, and I’ll try not to be too, um… closed minded. Now that faf is gone I think its safe for this young (rugged handsome) moral Crusader to say talk about the problems.

 

 

 

There is something that is a little different about people like me and Bettina (I believe) as we are church going people. We have ideas that we learned as children and a strong sense of moral wrong and right. We believe that something is wrong when others can find no fault in it. We see the world differently. I think it’s important that we have these opinions, but we lack much of the reasoning to back it up, it’s merely a belief. I think that all people should think think really hard… why? Why do I believe this?

 

 

 

I think that it is wrong. Not because of what my parents think, not because someone told me too, but it feels wrong. Gay Marriage, marriage has traditional been between a man and a woman. Some want Marriage to expand to gay couples, then where does it stop? Will people want to marry more than one person? (no jokes plz ) What else can this evolve into?

[budullewraagh]

then where does it stop? Will people want to marry more than one person? (no jokes plz ) What else can this evolve into?

then that is your war to fight if and when it comes. it is not right to pre-emptively defend your views by oppressing others before your real quarrel (polygamy) is brought to the table.

[-Demosthenes-]

Its not my real quarrel. I merely thought that it would be agreed that it was wrong, and my argument says that any breach of trditional marriage can lead to what I thought everyone thought was wrong.

[Coral Rhedd]

I don't see anything wrong with polygamy. I don't care if gays marry. Doesn't bother me it if people pursue serial monogamy or even make like bonobos. But if people really want to discuss what is bad for children it is having parents who by age or temperament are not grown ups. Children usually thrive in family situations where the adults in their lives put their needs first. People who aren't prepared to do this simply shouldn't have kids.

 

Caring, mature, supportive parents usually manage to make their share of mistakes but still do a pretty good job nevertheless. It is careless, narcissistic people who look to children to fill their emotional needs who make the worst parents.

 

If our real concern were better quality parenting (instead of imposing our religious beliefs and prejudices on the rest of society) then we would make a law that no one under 25 should adopt. I realize that there is not much we can do about the folks who cannot figure out the rudiments of birth control.

[john5746]

Its not my real quarrel. I merely thought that it would be agreed that it was wrong, and my argument says that any breach of trditional marriage can lead to what I thought everyone thought was wrong.

 

You need to seperate morality from legality. Some people might think it morally wrong to marry outside of their religion or marry a person of another race. That is their deal. But don't try to make it illegal.

 

Now, with polygamy, I don't have a problem with that morally, but it would get messy in practice, so I would be against it legally.

 

What I do know is that the gays and lesbians go out of there way to push their way into thinking they can be a true married couple as defined by whatever is holy.

 

HOLY = penis -> vagina UNHOLY = penis -> anus

 

is that the definition?

[Coral Rhedd]

John, you forgot girl on girl.

[john5746]

Ha! yes.

 

SUPERHOLY = vagina -> vagina !!

[Sayonara]

this young (rugged handsome) moral Crusader to say talk about the problems.

lol

 

The fact that you see yourself as a moral crusader could be part of the problem. Gay people aren't "sinners", out to destroy society. They are society. Apart from a few highly activistic gay rights campaigners (and who can blame them for hitting back?), most gay people are just trying to get on with their lives in their own way, like everyone else.

 

You might as well declare a crusade against people with perms for all the moral superiority that's involved.

 

 

There is something that is a little different about people like me and Bettina (I believe) as we are church going people. We have ideas that we learned as children and a strong sense of moral wrong and right.

We've already discussed that in the heated depths of "Sanctity of Marriage". Religious arguments for morality in biology make no sense.

 

 

We believe that something is wrong when others can find no fault in it. We see the world differently.

This condition is not unique to church-goers. It's a sensation experienced by everyone when we encounter something that breaks our model of 'how things are'. You'll get over it.

 

 

I think that it is wrong. Not because of what my parents think, not because someone told me too, but it feels wrong. Gay Marriage, marriage has traditional been between a man and a woman. Some want Marriage to expand to gay couples, then where does it stop? Will people want to marry more than one person? (no jokes plz ) What else can this evolve into?

This thread is not about gay marriage. You want "Sanctity of Marriage", where these questions are already addressed (and, iirc, in other threads too).

[Bettina]

I am an unbeliever. I live in South Carolina. You would consider me "old"

 

What I said seems rash I guess. Let me put it in context. You are a girl who feels unloved by her mother. You have a problem with gays apparently.

 

So' date=' if you had a gay child, how would you react? Would you love him/her? If they wanted to raise a child would you be happy for him/her?

 

I find it helpful to personalize things.. For example, war in Iraq. Would I fight in that war? Would I want my son to do so? If some other country bombed my house, would I find that liberating? If the President was Islamic and thought all Christians were destined for hell, how would I feel about that.

 

Have I helped? [/quote']

 

I am an unbeliever. I live in South Carolina. You would consider me "old"

No I wouldn't.. my dad is 64 and bicycles faster than me.

What I said seems rash I guess. Let me put it in context. You are a girl who feels unloved by her mother. You have a problem with gays apparently.

I don't feel....I know...she just didn't love me. I don't ever remember her hugging me, but I always remembered dad. Secondly, your making an asumption that because I don't want gays to adopt children that I have a problem with everything else they do. If you read my posts you will see that its not true.

So, if you had a gay child, how would you react? Would you love him/her? If they wanted to raise a child would you be happy for him/her?

First, I would love him/her to death by being the best mother ever. Second, I would support his/her same sex marriage, but would tell them up front that I would not support adoption of any kind. I want that child to go to a real family and yes...I said real. I don't know what will happen after that. Hopefully they will have the upbringing to know it is wrong because it is.

I find it helpful to personalize things.. For example, war in Iraq. Would I fight in that war? Would I want my son to do so? If some other country bombed my house, would I find that liberating? If the President was Islamic and thought all Christians were destined for hell, how would I feel about that.

I would not fight in that war. I would not want my son to. I would not find it liberating. I don't like religion.

Have I helped?

No. but I'm not mad at you

Bettina

[-Demosthenes-]

This thread is not about gay marriage. You want "Sanctity of Marriage", where these questions are already addressed (and, iirc, in other threads too).

The " Homos Vs. Hetros..again" thread? It seems to encompas the subject I brought up. Most of these subjects have been covered before, can we not talk about them anymore?

 

We've already discussed that in the heated depths of "Sanctity of Marriage". Religious arguments for morality in biology make no sense.

My argument was based on the basis that we can all agree that some kind of marriage is bad, but obviously its all good to you guys.

[Bettina]

The " Homos Vs. Hetros..again" thread? It seems to encompas the subject I brought up. Most of these subjects have been covered before, can we not talk about them anymore?

I'm new here. I won't learn any new feelings if I just read old posts. Eventually everything will have been discussed and we won't need to discuss anymore. I want to know about new feelings.

 

Bettina

[john5746]

My argument was based on the basis that we can all agree that some kind of marriage is bad, but obviously its all good to you guys.

 

interspecies marriage - WRONG

 

marriage to a minor - WRONG - if pregnant, I guess too late then.

 

 

I don't feel....I know...she just didn't love me. I don't ever remember her hugging me, but I always remembered dad. Secondly, your making an asumption that because I don't want gays to adopt children that I have a problem with everything else they do. If you read my posts you will see that its not true.

 

OK. So my previous point regarding interracial, etc is valid. These situations also can "scar" the child, or make that person better for it. You are concerned with feedback from society. Well, you can get bigotry for all kinds of things - obesity, race, religion, wealth, etc. As you mature, you will worry less and less about what other people think - its true! You sound like a very mature and intelligent person for your age.

 

As far as new feelings - well you seem to handle discussion and criticism from different viewpoints well. That's good - people will talk to you if you are open to discussion.

[Lance]

 

marriage to a minor - WRONG - if pregnant' date=' I guess too late then.

 

[/quote']

 

Why? I fail to see the logic that its alright for guys to marry each other but not alright for 17 year olds to get married.

[Phi for All]

Why? I fail to see the logic that its alright for guys to marry each other but not alright for 17 year olds to get married.

I could be wrong, but I think he wasn't talking about the Romeo & Juliet thing so much as the Falstaff & Juliet thing.