The Real Origin of The Scientific Method Is Religious

[Dbaiba]

I am asking you to be specific, telling me what other people say the Quran says is meaningless, much like christians who only believe because of what their religious leaders tell them, ignoring what it actually says...

 

Oh and by the way, invented by and practiced by doesn't mean Islam invented it any more than Christianity invented the theory of gravity or that Judaism invented relativity...

Once again , i know those verses very well, the Qur'an is full of : i will try to quote some of them for you whenever i can .

 

So, i do not just rely on what others say .

 

I make my own investigations and research , mind you

 

You can't just make such assumptions about people you know nothing about , people like me : i feel litle bit offended by that .

 

 

Anyway :

 

The invention of the scientific method by muslims thanks to the epistemology of the Qur;an is something totally different from discovering the laws of physics or gravity , different from discovering cells, DNA , viruses ....or inventing the wheel .......

 

You seem to confuse the scientific method as the tool to approach reality with reality itself or what we perceive of reality at least ..

 

 

Islam tries , by the way ,also to capture reality or the ultimate reality as a whole , while science does that piecemeal by isolating its fragments ...but that;s another discussion .

 

 

P.S.:

I could not sleep , so , i wrote this post for you then

 

I can't sleep because of different reasons you might think of haha

 

Thanks for your interesting insights , i mean it really

 

..........

 

Ciao

 

Sorry if i ,unintentionally, have offended anyone .

 

I was just teasing some people here , and i was tired and stressful.

 

But that's no excuse indeed

 

I was just having a laugh, i guess, some inappropriate humour noir

 

Now , i can't sleep

 

 

So, i am gona hang out here for a moment to re-read what our friends here have been saying .

 

Thank you all for your interesting replies .

 

My apologies again

 

I will do my best to be more focussed on the matters at hand

 

 

Best wishes

 

Ciao

[Moontanman]

Once again , i know those verses very well, the Qur'an is full of : i will try to quote some of them for you whenever i can .

 

So, i do not just rely on what others say .

 

I make my own investigations and research , mind you

 

You can't just make such assumptions about people you know nothing about , people like me : i feel litle bit offended by that .

 

 

Anyway :

 

The invention of the scientific method by muslims thanks to the epistemology of the Qur;an is something totally different from discovering the laws of physics or gravity , different from discovering cells, DNA , viruses ....or inventing the wheel .......

 

You seem to confuse the scientific method as the tool to approach reality with reality itself or what we perceive of reality at least ..

 

 

Islam tries , by the way ,also to capture reality or the ultimate reality as a whole , while science does that piecemeal by isolating its fragments ...but that;s another discussion .

 

 

P.S.:

I could not sleep , so , i wrote this post for you then

 

I can't sleep because of different reasons you might think of haha

 

Thanks for your interesting insights , i mean it really

 

..........

 

Ciao

 

Sorry if i ,unintentionally, have offended anyone .

 

I was just teasing some people here , and i was tired and stressful.

 

But that's no excuse indeed

 

I was just having a laugh, i guess, some inappropriate humour noir

 

Now , i can't sleep

 

 

So, i am gona hang out here for a moment to re-read what our friends here have been saying .

 

Thank you all for your interesting replies .

 

My apologies again

 

I will do my best to be more focussed on the matters at hand

 

 

Best wishes

 

Ciao

 

 

Then I suggest you post those verses because simply claiming that someone else claimed them to say something is just not evidence...

[Dbaiba]

Then I suggest you post those verses because simply claiming that someone else claimed them to say something is just not evidence...

I said i will ,so.

 

 

You can also, in that regard , read the masterpiece of the greatest poet of the last century , Dr Sir philosopher Muhammad Iqbal i presented as one of the sources of my allegations .

 

This sourec , for example, does not just tell you what it said , it proves it to you and you can verify it yourself by checking those mentioned verses in the book .

 

Your above mentioned reasoning does not hold water anyway :

 

How do you know that Ceasar or Nero existed? because historians tell you so , you haven't been there yourself to chek that out

[John Cuthber]

Dbaiba,

Stop messing about and post the verses.

(and, in the interests of not wasting time on your last pointless attempt at diversion, those emperor's heads are depicted on coins that still exist.)

Now, please post the verses from the Koran which say what you claim they do.

Edited June 18, 2013 by John Cuthber

[Dbaiba]

Dbaiba,

Stop messing about and post the verses.

(and, in the interests of not wasting time on your last pointless attempt at diversion, those emperor's heads are depicted on coins that still exist.)

Now, please post the verses from the Koran which say what you claim they do.

I am not messing about , as you put it

 

I am showing you the holes in your reasoning

 

 

I will post those verses in question as i said i would : plenty of them scattered all around the whole Qur'an : i gotta make a selection , it takes time and i have also other things to do,

 

Do you have any idea about the volume of the Qur'an ? so

 

So, just stop your offensive remarks and wait ....

 

Moderator :

 

Hi :

 

I will now proceed by quoting my removed link ,without any reference to any outside links , except youtube then .

 

P.S.: I would like to thank everyone here for their interesting reactions and kindness.indeed .

 

 

 

The Islamic Origin of the Scientific Method :

 

 

Hi, dear folks :

 

Note :

 

 

I would like to thank you all very much indeed for all your interesting reactions i appreciate very much indeed.

 

Compared to other similar sites,this one is really a great one , partly thanks to its rational , decent, polite , subtle, respectful, educated, and civilized members, i must add , to my great delight .

 

This site really deserves to be mentioned, as it is rightly so, on the top list by Google search indeed for top science forums : This site is one of some real open-minded top island of knowledge , amidst a sea of intolerance , pseudo-science, scientific dogmas and sscientific bigotry , scientific extremism ...

 

I say that because i had so many bad and some very few good personal experiences on the matter , believe me i can tell : I was kicked out of Dawkins' site .for example , on 3 occasions, simply because i presented this same topic concerning the real origin of the scientific method , the same happened to me in other " science " sites which cannot tolerate other views than theirs , than the main-stream ones .

 

You should be proud of yourselves, i mean it .

 

I did join this great site's community in order to get some inspirations , ideas and further knowledge concerning Biology , but then , i thought that it would be fruitful for us all to have some informed debates concerning the real origin of the scientific method first .

 

That said :

 

Note : i was accused earlier by a moderator here of allegedly having used some insults against a certain member here : I just used the words " ignorant and mallicious " in response to people who accuse islam of teaching the so-called killing of non-believers without any reason, like the member in question did .

 

That use of words cannot be branded as insults , i guess .

 

I am absolutely against insults , vulgar or irrespectful behaviour, personal offenses ...so.

 

 

 

Look, just forget about that salty unsalthy water thing ,for the time being at least I thought i knew what i was talking about ,regarding that Qur'anic verse in question and regarding what Cousteau might or might not have confirmed what i understood of that verse , but i found out i was wrong about both issues, i must admit .

I will try to do some research on the matter and then you will hear from me later on .

 

It was all hear -say i took for granted from thirds without any further personal investigation on the matter , unfortunately enough .

 

Normally , i am very careful about what i say , to some extent at least .

 

But , in this case , i realise i made a lethal mistake i will try to correct soon enough .

 

Sorry about that . My mistake . Shame on me .

 

Second : I am not here to talk about islam, neither in general nor in detail .

 

I also cannot answer some islamic religious issues, some people have raised here above ,mainly because my knowledge of islam is very limited : i know only the islamic basics concerning the religious part of islam at least .

 

 

 

I just want to prove to you, beyond the shadow of a doubt , the islamic religious Qur'anic origin of the scientific method .

 

This case is a solid waterproof one , i must assure you .

 

Earlier muslims did invent the scientific method and did practice it also , during the glory time or the golden time of islam , ( When Europe was still struggling against its medieval dark ages ) ,thanks mainly to and not- despite of islam :

 

The expistemology of the Qur'an can shed some light on that : The Qur'an that considers the seeking of knowledge in the broader sense , the use of reason, common sense , experience , observation ....as religious duties , as forms of worship of God .

 

That the rise of religious extermism in islam was , during a certain period of history , anti-science is a tragedy and fact that was one of the reasons that can explain the decline of muslims , not islam's , and the rise of the civilization of the west that had embraced the scientific method and had made it its own , science as one of the major players, if not THE major player, that paved the road to modernity .

 

So, since this site does not allow any reference to most outside links , i will just quote my removed link once again, but after removing those outside links , except those of youtube .Links to the latter are allowed here as i saw in some other topic .

 

There is no reason indeed not to allow links to youtube .

 

Those youtube videos concern the research on the field, so to speak, of an Iraki-British scientist physicist who tried to approach the issue of science and islam .He did that brilliantly, i must say .

 

Just try to take a look thus at the material displayed here below : and then you can decide for yourselves whether my allegations deserve some deeper research or not :

 

Try to study this material carefully with an open critical objective mind , please :

 

Thanks for your time, understanding , patience , generosity and cooperation i appreciate indeed .

 

 

 

Ladies and Gents (I do not know whether there are some ladies members here though ) , without further a due :

 

 

I proudly present to you :

 

 

 

The Islamic Origin of The Scientific Method :

 

 

Source: Briffault's "Making of Humanity "

 

 

 

 

 

Here you go :

 

 

Note that the author mentions the "Arabic civilization or Arabic science " instead of saying the islamic ones : Arabs were in the minority concerning the latters

 

 

 

 

Excerpt from "The Reconstruction of Religious Thought In Islam " by Sir Dr.Muhammad Iqbal :

 

 

 

 

 

Iqbal was quoting Briffault : chapter 5 : The spirit of muslim culture :

 

 

(....Europe has been rather slow to recognise the islamic origin of her scientific method .But full recognition of the fact has at last come .Let me quote one or two passages from Briffault's making of Humanity :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote :

 

 

"....It was under their succesors at that Oxford school that Roger Bacon learned Arabic & Arabic science .Neither Roger Bacon nor his later namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method.Roger Bacon was no more than one of the apostles of muslim science & method to christian Europe, and he never wearied of declaring that a knowledge of Arabic & Arabian science was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge.Discussions as to who was the originator of the experimental method are part of the colossal misrepresentation of the origins of European civilization. The experimental method of the Arabs was by Bacon's time widespread & eagerly cultivated throughout Europe . -pp.200-01-

 

 

Science is the most momentous contribution of Arab civilization to the modern world ,but its fruits were slow in ripening .Not until long after Moorish culture had sunk back into darkness did the giant to which it had given birth rise in his might .It was not science which brought Europe back to life .

 

 

Other and manifold influences from the civilization of islam communicated its first glow to European life.

 

 

For although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of the islamic culture is not traceable,nowhere is it so clear& momentous as in the genesis of that power which constitutes the paramount distinctive force of the modern world and the supreme force of its victory -natural science & the scientific spirit.

 

 

The debt of our science to that of the Arabs does not consist in startling discoveries or revolutionary theories, science owes a great deal more to Arab culture , it owes its existence .

 

 

The ancient world was , as we saw , pre-scientific .

 

 

The astronomy & mathematics of the Greek were a foreign importation never thoroughly acclimatized in Greek culture .The Greeks systematized, generalized & theorized , but the patient ways of investigation , the accumulation of positive knowledge ,the minute methods of science,detailed & prolonged observation, experimental inquiry ,were altogether alien to the Greek temperament .

 

 

Only in Hellinistic Alexandria was any approach to scientific work conducted in the ancient classical world, what we call science arose in Europe as a result of a new spirit of inquiry , of new methods of investigation ,of the method of experiment ,observation, measurement, of the development of mathematics in a form unknown to the Greeks .

 

 

That spirit & those methods were introduced to the European world by the Arabs -p.191-" end quote

 

 

The first important point to note about the spirit of muslim culture then is that ,for purposes of knowledge,it fixes its gaze on the concrete, the finite .

 

 

It is further clear that the birth of the method of observation and experiment in islam was due not to a compromise with Greek thought but to a prolonged intellectual warfare with it .In fact ,the influence of the Greeks who,as Briffault says ,were interested chiefly in theory ,not in fact ,tended rather to obscure the muslims ' vision of the Qur'an ,and for at least two centuries kept the practical Arab temperament from asserting itself & coming to its own .I want therefore to definitely eradicate the misunderstanding that Greek thought , in any way, determined the character of muslim culture.....)

 

 

 

 

Source : The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam by Sir Dr. Muhammad Iqbal , chapter 5 : the spirit of muslim culture :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Further more , see in the above mentioned book of Iqbal how muslims were the first ever to discover evolution itself & much much more

 

 

 

 

see this 3-part docu on the matter too while u are at it , presented by a an Iraki-British scientist on the field :

BBC documentary :

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...&v=TPlaS_wGzx8

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0FSgNE4Lxc&feature=BFa&list=PL523826BEF4A 1EF7B&lf=player_embedded

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjdnKE_i9E or

 

1EF7B&lf=player_embedded

 

 

 

Evolution Discovered By Muslims ,many centuries before Darwin was even born :

 

 

Quote :

 

(........The Qur'an argues the phenomenon of re-emergence of the ego on the analogy of his first emergence :

 

"Man saith : what , after i am dead , shall i in the end be brought forth alive ? Doth not Man bear in mind that We made him at first when he was nought ? " (19:66-67)

 

 

"It is We Who have decreed that death should be among you.

 

Yet We are not thereby hindered from replacing you with others ,your likes ,or from producing you in a form which ye know not , Ye have known the first creation, will you not reflect ? " (56:60-62)

 

How did Man first emerge ?

 

This suggestive argument embodied in the last verses of the two passages quoted above did in fact open a new vista to muslim philosophers . It was Jaiz (d.255.AH) who first hinted at the changes in animal life caused by migrations & environment generally .The association known as "the brethren of purity" further amplified the views of Jaiz .

 

Ibn Maskawaih (d.421.AH) however , was the first muslim thinker to give a clear & in many respects thoroughly modern theory of the origin of man .

It was only natural & perfectly consistent with the spirit of the Qur'an that Rema regarded the question of immortality as one of biological evolution , and not a problem to be decided by the arguments of purely metaphysical nature , as some philosophers of islam had thought .

 

The theory of evolution ,however, has brought despair & anxiety , instead of hope & enthusiasm for life , to the modern world .

 

The reason is to be found in the unwarranted modern assumption that man's present structure , mental as well as physiological , is the last word in biological evolution , and that death , regarded as a biological event , has no constructive meaning .

 

The world of today needs a Rumi to create an attitude of hope , and to kindle the fire of enthusiasm for life .

 

His inimitable lines may be quoted here ;

 

First man appeared in the class of inorganic things,

 

Next , he passed therefrom into that of plants ,

 

For years , he lived as one of the plants ,

 

Remembering naught of his inorganic state so different

 

And when he passed from the vegetive to the animal state

 

he had no remembrance of his state as a plant

 

Except the inclination he felt to the world of plants

 

Especially at the time of spring & sweet flowers

 

Like the inclination of infants to towards their mothers

 

which know not the cause of their inclination to the breast.

 

Again the great creator ,as you know

 

Drew man man out of the animal into the human state

 

Thus man passed from one order of nature to another

 

........... End quote .

 

 

Source : The reconstruction of religious thought in islam by Muhammad Iqba

 

 

Quote :

 

.....".........Side by side with the progress of mathematical thought in islam ,we find the idea of evolution gradually shaping itself .

 

It was Jahiz who was the first to note the changes in bird -life caused by migrations.

 

Later Ibn Maskawaih who was a contemporary of Al Barena gave it the shape of a more definite theory , and adopted it in his theological work -Al Fauz Al Asghar _.

 

I reporduce here the substance of his evolutionary hypothesis , not because of its scientific value , but because of the light it throws on the direction in which muslim thought was moving .

 

According to Ibn Maskawaih , plant -life at the lowest stage of evolution does not need any seed for its birth & growth .Nor does it perpetuate its species by means of the seed .This kind of plant - life differs from minerals only in some little power of movement which grows in higher forms , & reveals itself further in that the plant spreads out its branches , & prepetuates its species by means of the seed.

 

The power of movement gradually grows farther untill we reach trees which possess a trunk , leaves & fruit.

 

At a higher stage of evolution stand forms of plant-life which need better soil & climate for their growth .

 

The last stage of development is reached in vine & date-palm which stand , as it were , on the treshold of animal life.

 

In the date -palm a clear sex distinction appears .

 

Besides roots & fibres it develops something which functions like the animal brain , on the integrity of which depends the life of the date-palm .

 

This is the highest stage in the development of plant-life , and a prelude to animal life .

 

The first forward step to animal life is freedom from earth-rootedness which is the germ of conscious movement .

 

 

This is the initial state of animality in which the sense of touch is the first & the sense of sight is the last to appear .

 

With the development of the senses of animal acquires freedom of movement as in the case of worms , reptiles , ants & bees .

 

Animality reaches its perfection in the horse among quadrupeds and the flacon among birds , and finally arrives at the frontier of humanity in the ape which is just a degree below man in the scale of evolution .

 

Further evolution brings physiological changes with a growing power of discrimination and spirituality untill humanity passes from barbarism to civilization ...." End quote

 

 

Source : "The reconstruction of religious thought in islam " by muslim philosopher great poet & Allama Dr Sir Muhammad Iqbal, Chapter 5 : The spirit of muslim culture

The epistemology of the Qur'an which incites believers to use their reason, common sense , observation, experience , the seeking of knowledge in the broader sense in relation to the universe, life , man , nature .... ....had triggered the invention of the induction, the scientific method ...earlier muslims had invented and practiced thanks to and not- despite of islam .

 

See above

I made a mistake , i presume .

 

See above

See above

 

This is the time of muslims ' decline, not islam's, that has been going for more than 5 centuries now .

Anti-science , anti-knowledge in general religious extremism had been 1 of the major reasons behind muslims ' decline ....which had let , among other major things , to the definite closing of that extremely dynamic innovative creative self-revival or self-cleansing , self-reconstruction spirit of islam : the closing of the door of ALIjtihad or the closing of the door of the extremely innovative dynamic creative religious theological and other islamic denktanks : that creative inbuilt , so to speak, dynamic self-renewal spirit of islam door has been closed for more than 5 centuries now .

See above

 

Science owes a lot more to muslims than just that : it owes its existence .

Science owes a lot more to muslims than just that : it owes its existence ; when Europe was deeply slumbering in its medieval dark age .

 

Science did not originate in Europe : history must be rewritten indeed .

 

See above

Religious extremism is indeed anti-science and even anti-life .

 

That's 1 of the reasons that can explain the current muslims' decline that has been going on for more than 5 centuries now .

 

That had broken the backbones and spirit of muslims .

 

But religious extremism cannot be blamed on religion itself

 

Proof ? see above how muslims not only invented and practiced the scientific method thanks to the epistemology of the Qur'an in relation to the universe, life , man , nature .....but had also discovered evolution, more than 6 centuries before Darwin was even born , thanks to the evolutionary spirit of the Qur'an ....and much much more .

 

Islamic Spain had even been indirectly responsible for triggering the protestant reformation as the katalysator of western enlightenment and thus the empiricism and phoilosophical liberalism of John Locke , for example , to mention just that , as muslims were indirectly responsible for triggering the Italian renaissance by trasmitting the ancient Greek legacy to the Europeans ...

 

 

In short : The modern world would not have been possible at all without the enormous and huge decisive fundamental and other influences of muslims and islam : the latter that had thus helped medieval Europe out of its dark age .

 

Or as Briffault said : there is not a single aspect of western growth or progress that cannot be traced back to islamic influences .

Do you need some more of this , folks ?

 

I will be glad to oblige

[John Cuthber]

"Do you have any idea about the volume of the Qur'an ?"

Yes, I have read it. And I don't remember it saying anything about scientific methods of study.

 

So, stop messing about and quote the verses

Don't repeat the youtube and quotes.

That's just silly. They were not good enough before so they are not good enough now.

 

Or, of course, you can not quote them

You will lose any credibility- people will just assume that you were lying.

Is that what you want?

Are you seeking to undermine Islam by making claims on it's behalf that are not true?

So, is your next post going to be a handful of lines- possibly in Arabic or is it going to discredit your purported faith.

Your choice: choose wisely.

Edited June 18, 2013 by John Cuthber

[Arete]

You also keep asserting that Islamic scientists "discovered" evolution centuries before Darwin - which is false.

 

Plenty of groups of people were observing evolution in nature and thinking about it - including the ancient Greeks - well before your supposed Islamic discoverers of evolution were around:

http://www.aboutdarwin.com/literature/Pre_Dar.html

 

What Darwin contributed was a working theory of evolution by natural selection.

http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/

 

 

Claiming that the Islamic world presented this working theory 6 centuries before Darwin did is false, and if we're going to get down to who observed that organisms changed over time first, the ancient Greeks beat the Arabs.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Arete

[Moontanman]

This attitude of "religion is the answer" to pretty much any question befuddles me, I would just once like to see some theist of any stripe defend their position honestly, I know I'm going to draw fire with this but as bad as fundamentalist christianity is at defending its position islam is worse. So far the islamic apologists i've encountered are simplistic to the point of an almost childish need to believe, the comparison with santa claus is far more accurate than most would think...

[Dbaiba]

"Do you have any idea about the volume of the Qur'an ?"

Yes, I have read it. And I don't remember it saying anything about scientific methods of study.

 

So, stop messing about and quote the verses

Don't repeat the youtube and quotes.

That's just silly. They were not good enough before so they are not good enough now.

 

Or, of course, you can not quote them

You will lose any credibility- people will just assume that you were lying.

Is that what you want?

Are you seeking to undermine Islam by making claims on it's behalf that are not true?

So, is your next post going to be a handful of lines- possibly in Arabic or is it going to discredit your purported faith.

Your choice: choose wisely.

Are you feeling ok ?

 

I said that the epistemology of the Qur'an i will dsiplay for you later on as promised ,had led to the invention of the scientific method by muslims : see my sources .

I did not say that the Qur'an talked or mentioned the scientific method per se , so, don't be silly , please .

Don't twist things , please .

 

This attitude of "religion is the answer" to pretty much any question befuddles me, I would just once like to see some theist of any stripe defend their position honestly, I know I'm going to draw fire with this but as bad as fundamentalist christianity is at defending its position islam is worse. So far the islamic apologists i've encountered are simplistic to the point of an almost childish need to believe, the comparison with santa claus is far more accurate than most would think...

Who said religion is the answer ?

 

What does that mean anyway ?

 

The answer to what exactly ?

 

Don't be silly

 

You are the one who's beeing simplistic , i see

Edited June 18, 2013 by Dbaiba

[Moontanman]

Obfuscation

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Simple English Wiktionary has a definition for: obfuscate.

Obfuscation means making something harder to understand, usually by complicating sentences needlessly. Weasel words are a form of obfuscation. Obfuscation is usually used when people either do not know what they are talking about or wish to hide their meaning.

[John Cuthber]

.

My link proves , beyond the shadow of a doubt , that the scientific method had islamic origins, thanks to and not despite of islam .

OK, the teachings of Islam follow from The Koran.

Please cite or quote the verses that show that it is responsible for the scientific method.

 

How about "The Qur'an that considers the seeking of knowledge in the broader sense , the use of reason, common sense , experience , observation ....as religious duties , as forms of worship of God ."

Can you quote the bit which says that?

 

More of a problem would be to show that religion was the origin of the scientific method rather than religion just happened to be there at the time.

Can you show cause and effect?

Otherwise it's like saying that me listening to bad pop music gave rise to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Sure, they happened at the same time- but one didn't cause the other.

Then you have to address the issue that science had its origins in the teachings of the Greeks many years before the Prophet wrote the Koran.

 

How did it do that?

Edited June 18, 2013 by John Cuthber

[Dbaiba]

 

Obfuscation

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Simple English Wiktionary has a definition for: obfuscate.

Obfuscation means making something harder to understand, usually by complicating sentences needlessly. Weasel words are a form of obfuscation. Obfuscation is usually used when people either do not know what they are talking about or wish to hide their meaning.

Does it ever occur to you that you may be overestimating your capacity of judgement ? Guess not

[Moontanman]

Does it ever occur to you that you may be overestimating your capacity of judgement ? Guess not

 

 

has it ever occured to you that positive claims need positive evidence and not baseless assertions?

[Dbaiba]

.

 

OK, the teachings of Islam follow from The Koran.

Please cite or quote the verses that show that it is responsible for the scientific method.

 

How about "The Qur'an that considers the seeking of knowledge in the broader sense , the use of reason, common sense , experience , observation ....as religious duties , as forms of worship of God ."

Can you quote the bit which says that?

 

More of a problem would be to show that religion was the origin of the scientific method rather than religion just happened to be there at the time.

Can you show cause and effect?

Otherwise it's like saying that me listening to bad pop music gave rise to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Sure, they happened at the same time- but one didn't cause the other.

Then you have to address the issue that science had its origins in the teachings of the Greeks many years before the Prophet wrote the Koran.

 

How did it do that?

You have absolutely not even considered to take a close look at the sources of my allegations i mentioned here above , so , why should i bother providing you with any additional informations on the matter whatsoever anyway ?

You will just dismiss them as usual and as expected from you : very predictable , without even investigating them properly as you should do .

 

One of my sources was a western historian of science and an Orientalist , ironically enough , you did not even discuss what he had to say on the matter through the quotes of his book i placed here above .

 

No one here did by the way .

 

You just like to listen to your own music, that's all

 

You, guys , are just conducting a monologue , not a dialogue .

 

So, i quit

 

I have better things to do than this

 

What a waste of my time , unfortunately enough .

 

Ciao

[Moontanman]

You have absolutely not even considered to take a close look at the sources of my allegations i mentioned here above , so , why should i bother providing you with any additional informations on the matter whatsoever anyway ?

You will just dismiss them as usual and as expected from you : very predictable , without even investigating them properly as you should do .

 

One of my sources was a western historian of science and an Orientalist , ironically enough , you did not even discuss what he had to say on the matter through the quotes of his book i placed here above .

 

No one here did by the way .

 

You just like to listen to your own music, that's all

 

You, guys , are just conducting a monologue , not a dialogue .

 

So, i quit

 

I have better things to do than this

 

What a waste of my time , unfortunately enough .

 

Ciao

 

 

Do you understand that an appeal to authority is not considered evidence? You need to show the scripture that supports your contention, not list people who agree with your assertions...

[Dbaiba]

has it ever occured to you that positive claims need positive evidence and not baseless assertions?

Baseless ?

 

Are you blind ?

 

Did you at least take a look at the quotes and sources of my allegations here above ?

 

Did you even try to discuss them, let alone try to refute them , if you could at least ?

 

NO , absolutely not

 

Don't bother responding , because your non-sense is so predictable i don't even have to take a look at it to know it as such .

 

This is my last post here , so

 

Bye

 

Do you understand that an appeal to authority is not considered evidence? You need to show the scripture that supports your contention, not list people who agree with your assertions...

This clearly proves my point

You confirm it once again , the more reason that i should quit

I did not keep my promise by saying i quit

 

This time i will, more than ever

 

You don't have to miss me haha

 

I can miss you ,guys , like i can miss a terrible headache

Edited June 20, 2013 by Dbaiba

[pwagen]

You, guys , are just conducting a monologue , not a dialogue .

That's what talking to a wall looks like. You've been asked, especially by John Cuthber, to supply verses from the Quran, not third party sources. You've not done so, which means you either can't because there's no such thing in there, or have no idea what the Quran actually contains.

[Moontanman]

Seriously Dbaiba, just for a moment try to see this from my perspective, I can give you probably hundreds of articles written by supposedly knowledgeable men that there is an alien base on the far side of the moon. Many articles have been written supported by photos and logical assertions about the value of such a base to aliens. And it is logical, a base on the far side of the moon would allow secretive surveillance and quick access to the Earth...

 

Does this mean such a base is real? Should we be looking? Should we be spending millions of dollars trying to find that base? Is it logical to believe this idea? Wouldn't you require some positive evidence of it's existence?

 

That's I where you stand, you are making a highly unlikely assertion, it needs to be backed up by positive evidence not just what other people claim is true...

[John Cuthber]

Dbaiba, before you go,

Do you understand that, not only do we not need to look at the stuff that you have posted but that we should not do so?

 

If I say "Fred told me that 'The Koran says that you should eat babies ", it is not evidence of what the Koran says.

It may be evidence of what Fred says- but Fred may be an idiot.

 

So that's why we keep asking you to cite the parts of the Koran which claim what you say it does.

 

In scientific circles it's called an appeal to authority (Fred would be the authority here).

In legal circles it's called hearsay and it is not accepted as evidence.

 

No group who deals with evidence would accept it.

We don't accept it.

Please stop rehashing it.

 

You have also failed to explain why the Greek had science before the Koran was written.

 

So, let's see a nice short post (as I said earlier- it might be in Arabic) that shows what the Koran says about science.

Not some guy on youtube.

Not a page on someone's Blog.

Not a quote from someone trying to sell a book.

Show us where the Koran talks about science or accept that, at best, you have been misled.

Edited June 20, 2013 by John Cuthber