atinymonkey Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 The whole concept of God is so abstract that his existance is impossible to prove' date=' yet at the same time impossible to disprove. To 100% sure of the noneeistance of God is extremely nearsighted and foolish.[/quote'] Er, ok. You are really underestimating the time and research spent to reach my own personal conclusion, moreover you are attributing trite reasoning in response to your assumption my conclusions were easily reached. It doesn't undermine my convictions, because I reached that level of questioning about 15 years ago. To boil it down to something as basic as you ascribe: - The universe is a vast and wondrous place full of mysteries, coincidence and unsolvable puzzles. However that the universe is not fully understood does not mean a giant space lobster and his zombie Jesus offspring created it for a bit of a laugh during a slow week. or to quote someone else's wisdom: - "Our ignorance is God, what we know is science." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Er, ok. You are really underestimating the time and research spent to reach my own personal conclusion, moreover you are attributing trite reasoning in response to your assumption my conclusions were easily reached. It doesn't undermine my convictions, because I reached that level of questioning about 15 years ago. Though I admire your dedication and long service to the area of reasoning, thinking about something for 15 years doesn't mean you're the absolute authority on it. Humans thought the earth was flat for much longer then that...that doesn't mean the earth is flat. The universe is a vast and wondrous place full of mysteries, coincidence and unsolvable puzzles. However that the universe is not fully understood does not mean a giant space lobster and his zombie Jesus offspring created it for a bit of a laugh during a slow week. While you do not believe this is true...it's still impossible to disprove. Maybe God created the universe because he was bored. I'd say that is totally possible. Maybe you just want to think that becasue it would give your life no purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 He didn't say he'd disproven it; he said he was 100% sure. That makes it a matter of belief, and if you* want the right to your beliefs then I don't see why that right shouldn't be extended to the opposite camp. * 'you' in a loose sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 He didn't say he'd disproven it; he said he was 100% sure. That makes it a matter of belief, and if you* want the right to your beliefs then I don't see why that right shouldn't be extended to the opposite camp. I never said he couldn't have his own opinions...I'm just defending mine. When he said he "100% sure God doesn't exsist" makes me feel threatened. As if he doesn't consider my opinions or care about my beliefs. I fully recognize the fact that I may believing in something that is not true... God may not exist... Just the way he wrote made it seem as if he had rejected all other possibilities as well as discounted me and my opinions. Am I wrong??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 If you feel your beliefs can be threatened merely by someone else stating theirs, then I'm not really sure that's anything to do with anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Well...if someone else is threatening them them it has to do with someone else. Or is that not what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 You are the one who feels threatened. I am saying that if your beliefs are that strong in the first place, then someone saying something to you (oh noes) shouldn't really affect them. It's not like he has actually presented anything threatening, and he didn't beam "threatened vibes" into your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Ok, whatever... I don't feel like arguing anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artorius Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Ecoli...your going to have to accept that there are those here,who think its a cool thing to.. a)Blaspheme b)Ridicule anyone who posts their thoughts on the concept of the existence of GOD They do this because on the whole,some here are social misfits....with no friends in the real world they falsly believe,that this sort of behaviour is the 'norm'.They think they champion SCIENCE because thats the science standpoint! and they want to be on the winning side.But this is just their ignorant,biggoted view of the world they percieve through lack of social skills.When in groups of people they are the ones with the paranoid feelings(everyone seems to talk over me...why dont they want to hear my latest essay on prof Hawking..SIGH..) However we know in the real world that they are many scientists who are religious,and many who are not. When someone feels the need to state they are athiest in their opening statement,which isnt really relevant to the particular thread.They are seeking approval from others here "hey his one of us lets all attack the little religious boy...blah blah creationist nutter etc" So the best thing to do is argue your point and leave it at that.Otherwise no matter how or who you reply to with logic and reason YOUR the one attacked as a troll,or spammer...and promptly banned. But the other side of the coin is BE GRATEFULL,many similar forums are dropping the religious sections because of arguments IMO to the detriment of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thank you, Artorius for your insightful post. I certainly feel less threatened now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Ok, whatever... I don't feel like arguing anymore. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just pointing out you can't really blame someone else for your shaky faith. By definition, it's personal to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Ecoli...your going to have to accept that there are those here' date='who think its a cool thing to..a)Blaspheme b)Ridicule anyone who posts their thoughts on the concept of the existence of GOD They do this because on the whole,some here are social misfits....with no friends in the real world they falsly believe,that this sort of behaviour is the 'norm'. BLAH BLAH BLAH[/quote'] Right. Let's nip this one right in the bud: Discussing the arbitrary basis of a belief is nothing to do with ridicule. If you think you are going to come back and start the shit-stirring again within minutes of arriving, you have another thought coming. Thank you, Artorius for your insightful post. I certainly feel less threatened now... You didn't take that poisonous drivel seriously did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I never said he couldn't have his own opinions...I'm just defending mine. When he said he "100% sure God doesn't exsist" makes me feel threatened. As if he doesn't consider my opinions or care about my beliefs. You can defend your opinions all you like, but you are not defending them. What your doing is attacking mine, which is entirely different. I do consider the different viewpoints, I've had a few religious discussions with Arch Deacons and Bishops, but only from a theological standpoint. The key to discussion is discourse, it's not a thin veil to attack other people opinions. I'm fully aware that the people with differing opinions to mine are legion, with a thousand different variations across a broad spectrum. You have to understand that the only way to truly have firm opinions is to test them. If you feel threatened simply by someone stating the opposite viewpoint, it's probably because you have not questioned your own. Every seminary in the Christian Church teaches it's priests about the other religions, so that they can test their faith and be sure that there convictions are genuine. I would suggest you spend some time looking into the nature of faith, and work from there. If you don't trust me, ask your Church for guidance on the best methods of studying theology and your faith. In short, pick up a book. They think they champion SCIENCE because thats the science standpoint! and they want to be on the winning side.But this is just their ignorant,biggoted view of the world they percieve through lack of social skills.When in groups of people they are the ones with the paranoid feelings. I don't think this is true. Ask yourself how many people of opposing faiths you have actually sat down and talked to about there religion. I've studied theologies, religious texts like the Koran and the Torah, and the nature of Humanities need for a Creator. I've discussed faiths with Rabbis, Bishops, Witches, Hindus, Buddhists, Hari Krishna, Muslims, Druids and a myriad of minor faiths. I have to understand a viewpoint before I can dismiss it. I'm not championing science, nor will I bend my knee to your God simply because you wish it. I have my own undefended thoughts and I'll probably always fight to keep those independent, consciously or unconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artorius Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 You can defend your opinions all you like' date=' but you are not defending them. What your doing is attacking mine. I'm not championing science, nor will I bend my knee to your God simply because you wish it. I have my own undefended thoughts and I'll probably always fight to keep those independent, consciously or unconsciously.[/quote'] Tiny my post to ecoli was not directed at any one individual,im sorry that you got that impression.However as you so nicely stated above if other athiest peoples afforded the religious here the same curteousy you request they would not be any problem.I never ram religious doctrine down members throats continually,so why should people endure snide quips posted which ridicule their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 People who believe in God seem to be much in the minority in SFN, or at least the vocal minority. This makes stating our opinion's much harder, because less people will take us seriously. I get the feeling that you all believe God is "old school." Its funny how when someone says "He's 100% sure God doesn't exists" most people just accept it and even agree with it. But when I state my own opinion...That 100% sure of something that is impossible to disprove (or prove) is foolish...I have people attacking me. I'm just trying to make a logical argument against a statement (though, I have nothing against with the person who said it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 All of which leads quite neatly back to the original post in the thread: - I guess it's more fun to debate religion or ethics than to talk science. And debates typically last longer than a science thread' date=' which just has an answer and quits (most of the time).[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acestro Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Hello, I know it's obnoxious to have old threads dug up, but this (and the "why dont we have a tail") thread attracted me to this forum. The point that 100% is not an acceptable concept in science but seems to be acceptable in disproving God is a good one. I am a hard core believer in evolution and a biologist by profession. But I see a distinction between physical and metaphysical (natural vs. supernatural) that, by defintion, means that you cant apply the same criteria to both. In my opinion, when religious folks try to explain the age of the earth and evolution, they are treading on thin ice, just the way scientists trying to disprove god are treading on thin ice. Just a thought. For the vestigial tail issue (to keep me from digging up that thread too), the whole nonsense seemed to stem from a disagreement on what 'vestigial' meant. Great forum you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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