Types of people

[Bettina]

I tried searching but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for so I posted this.....

 

During class Wednesday, a boy started talking to us about Michael Ross, the murderer who wants to die. He killed like 8 girls and even showed the police where all the bodies were. Two of the girls were only 14 and he told the police that one of them begged for her life. He was judged sane during his trial and knew exactly what he was doing. Anyway, the teacher heard us and decided to probe the class on our feelings toward capital punishment and we discussed it again on Friday.

 

The kids in my class wanted to see him die and so did I, and as I listened, I decided I could look at how people treat each other and place them into three main groups. Good, Bad, and Monsters. The good need no explanation, but the other two I thought about a lot. The bad are the ones who bully people, beat their wives, and just cause trouble everywhere they go. Then, there are the monsters. I believe Ross was one of those, as are the ones who rape and murder.

 

I can't yet classify the ones who are truly sick or the ones that were emotionally driven to be temporarily bad, but it's the monsters that I've always been afraid of like Ross and those who behead other people in cold blood. I wouldn't have any problem watching them get executed and I told my teacher just that. He told me and another girl that he was surprised hearing that from an emotional type like her and I and found it very interesting. (interesting?}

 

After the short discussion, he wanted us to vote, and I felt better when all of us (19 in all) wanted him dead. My teacher thought I would feel grief for Ross's family, and I'll admit I would have, but I wanted revenge for those girls. He said he won't judge our decision because it was a personal matter that we had to decide for ourselves, but he was hoping for more of an imbalance to promote more of a debate. I still would like an opinion on the sick ones though. What do you think...should monsters be executed?

 

Bettina

[budullewraagh]

come now, there must be more partitions than just "good" "bad" and "monster". i'd try again before you judge whether or not they should live.

 

plus i hate stereotypes with a passion

[john5746]

There have been similar discussions. My opinion boils down to economics. In this particular case, the guy is guilty without a doubt, so the argument of killing an innocent is out the window.

As for victim revenge, I don't think society should be seeking revenge, otherwise, we would let the victim inact the punishment. The problem with locking the guy up is (1) he could possibly escape and (2) it costs money.

 

(1) is very unlikely, but (2) is guaranteed. Now, if we are allowed to keep him in a turkish style prison with no medical care, etc. that may be ok, but as it is they get better care than some citizens.

 

So, I would be all for shooting him in the back of the head. The problem is with our legal system, it costs as much if not more to execute someone, so might as well just let the guy live and hopefully he will get some payback in prison.

[Mart]

come now' date=' there must be more partitions than just "good" "bad" and "monster". i'd try again before you judge whether or not they should live.

 

plus i hate stereotypes with a passion[/quote']

So you're one of those people who "hate stereotypes with a passion" are you?

I just can't stop stereotyping people. You've added another group to my obsession. You could be a group with only one member but I suspect that's unlikely.

[Vladimir]

How can you say these things? You call this man a monster but your willing to kill him! As for these catorgeries of yours tells me of your need to order your world into good evil and the mentally disturbed. The fact that only a qualified proffesional can do that, and your views of good and evil are just that your views.

That turkish prison sounds dreadful

[Aardvark]

I decided I could look at how people treat each other and place them into three main groups. Good, Bad, and Monsters.[/i']

 

You should be careful about assigning people into different categories.

 

After all, can a people be completely good or completely bad or even completely a monster?

 

It would be so lovely to be able to point at a person and be able to say, 'you are bad'. But people are more complex than that, we all have both good and bad within us. Unless you can find some way of getting inside someones character and just killing the bad part, to talk of killing the bad people is dangerously simplistic.

 

How would you judge people to divide them into these groups?

 

After all good people sometimes do bad things and bad people sometimes do good things. Human nature is a lot more complex than good, bad and monsterous.

[Bettina]

You should be careful about assigning people into different categories.

 

After all' date=' can a people be completely good or completely bad or even completely a monster?

 

It would be so lovely to be able to point at a person and be able to say, 'you are bad'. But people are more complex than that, we all have both good and bad within us. Unless you can find some way of getting inside someones character and just killing the bad part, to talk of killing the bad people is dangerously simplistic.

 

How would you judge people to divide them into these groups?

 

After all good people sometimes do bad things and bad people sometimes do good things. Human nature is a lot more complex than good, bad and monsterous.[/quote']

 

I know what you mean, but I classify a person who abducts a 5 year old, drags her into the woods, rapes and murders her, a monster. I wouldn't care if he became good again. I would want him put to death.

What I have trouble with is why people would stand out in the rain holding signs to protect this "person".

 

All I have to go by are my friends, teachers, dad, what I read. Thats why I came here for more opinions on people types.

 

I like to see other points of view.

 

Bettina

[swansont]

What about Cameron Willingham? He was convicted in August 1992 of the arson murders of his three young children, and executed in February 2004. Is he a monster?

 

 

 

Does your answer change if you find out that arson experts have called the evidence into question, saying there is no basis for thinking the fire was arson, and that he was convicted, in part, because he didn't show remorse or the kind of grief the jury was looking for? IOW, he was very likely innocent.

[Mart]

When a jury convicts it does so on the basis of probabilities. The jury doesn't know for certain whether the accused is guilty in the sense that they really did it. In many cases only the accused can know that for certain. So in a court of law whether a person is or is not a monster is not the issue. The issue is whether the crime is considered monstrous enough to deserve the death penalty. There are many crimes that I think require the death penalty. What worries me are the people who commit such acts. Especially when they show no remorse and may not even view their acts as wrong.

[Macroscopic]

Originally posted byBettina:

should monsters be executed?

I would normally say yes; they deserve the worst punishment we can legally give them. But this guy wants to die, and if we killed him we would be giving him what he wants. For him death wouldn't be the worst punishment. Life in prison would be worse for him, so that is what we should give him. We should not do what he wants.

[TimeTraveler]

it costs money.

 

I read some evidence in a debate not to long ago about this suggesting it actually costs less to lock someone up for life then it does to execute them. I'll see if I can find it.

[Auburngirl05]

I read some evidence in a debate not to long ago about this suggesting it actually costs less to lock someone up for life then it does to execute them. I'll see if I can find it.

 

I actually just wrote a paper about capital punishment for my social psych class, and the statistics I found said that if a 25 year old person gets a life sentence and lives until around age 80, it costs about $810,000 to support him. In contrast, the average execution costs $2.17 million. I'll try to find the site I got that from, I think I Googled "cost of execution" or something like that.

[Bettina]

I would normally say yes; they deserve the worst punishment we can legally give them. But this guy wants to die, and if we killed him we would be giving him what he wants. For him death wouldn't be the worst punishment. Life in prison would be worse for him, so that is what we should give him. We should not do what he wants.

 

This is exactly what my dad said. He also believes Ross wants to die, because he can't take his solitary confinement any longer and its driving him insane. If thats true, then I'll change my mind and keep him there.

 

Bettina

[john5746]

I read some evidence in a debate not to long ago about this suggesting it actually costs less to lock someone up for life then it does to execute them. I'll see if I can find it.

 

Finish reading my post.

[Macroscopic]

Originally posted by Bettina

He also believes Ross wants to die, because he can't take his solitary confinement any longer and its driving him insane.

Perfect.

[Tetrahedrite]

To Bettina:

I can understand how you feel, what the man did was absolutely disgusting;

however, how is it that you can call the man a monster in one instance, and in the next instance say "I wouldn't have any problem watching (him) get executed". Doesn't this make you just as bad? What gives you the right (or anyone for that matter) to exact revenge on a person that you don't know. It almost sounds like you're saying you would "happy" to watch another human being die.

 

You say you want revenge, so would you be willing to personally administer the lethal injection?

 

I would like to know if the advocates of capital punishment on this forum would be personally able to take some one's life, execute them, even if they did do something terrible. I know that I certainly couldn't do it. Call me weak, call me a coward, but I could not and would not do it!! I will not play God.

[TimeTraveler]

Finish reading my post.

 

Oops, my bad.

[Bettina]

To Bettina:

I can understand how you feel' date=' what the man did was absolutely disgusting;

[b']however[/b], how is it that you can call the man a monster in one instance, and in the next instance say "I wouldn't have any problem watching (him) get executed". Doesn't this make you just as bad? What gives you the right (or anyone for that matter) to exact revenge on a person that you don't know. It almost sounds like you're saying you would "happy" to watch another human being die.

 

You say you want revenge, so would you be willing to personally administer the lethal injection?

 

I would like to know if the advocates of capital punishment on this forum would be personally able to take some one's life, execute them, even if they did do something terrible. I know that I certainly couldn't do it. Call me weak, call me a coward, but I could not and would not do it!! I will not play God.

 

It almost sounds like you're saying you would "happy" to watch another human being die.

He's a monster. He gave up his right to call himself a human being. (lame...I know)

 

I would like to know if the advocates of capital punishment on this forum would be personally able to take some one's life, execute them, even if they did do something terrible. I know that I certainly couldn't do it.

I would want any or all of the victims parents or guardians to administer his execution. If he did that to my child...yes...I would administer the injection and deliver his soul to Satan.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this

 

Bettina

[Tetrahedrite]

Thats fair enough, but it still does not answer the question.

 

Would you be willing to administer the lethal dose, ie execute or kill him?

[-Demosthenes-]

To Bettina:

I can understand how you feel' date=' what the man did was absolutely disgusting;

[b']however[/b], how is it that you can call the man a monster in one instance, and in the next instance say "I wouldn't have any problem watching (him) get executed". Doesn't this make you just as bad? What gives you the right (or anyone for that matter) to exact revenge on a person that you don't know. It almost sounds like you're saying you would "happy" to watch another human being die.

 

You say you want revenge, so would you be willing to personally administer the lethal injection?

 

I would like to know if the advocates of capital punishment on this forum would be personally able to take some one's life, execute them, even if they did do something terrible. I know that I certainly couldn't do it. Call me weak, call me a coward, but I could not and would not do it!! I will not play God.

I agree, no one should be able to decide if another person will be killed or not.

If someone starts a fight and breaks another person's arm should we break his arm? No its barbaric.

[Macroscopic]

Originally posted by Bettina

He's a monster. He gave up his right to call himself a human being. (lame...I know)

Maybe it is, but I still agree with it. The only reason I want him to live is because he doesn't want to. If he wanted to live I would be happy to watch him die.

[Tetrahedrite]

For all those christians out there:

Sixth Commandment "thou shall not kill"

[Bettina]

Thats fair enough' date=' but it still does not answer the question.

 

Would you be willing to administer the lethal dose, ie execute or kill him?[/quote']

I don't understand...I already answered it above, but here it is again.

 

I would want any or all of the victims parents or guardians to administer his execution. If he did that to my child...yes...I would administer the injection and deliver his soul to Satan.

 

My feelings are becoming more firm. It should be the parents, godparents, cousins, aunts and uncles of the little girl killed, that should have the sole right to administer the lethal whatever to rid the earth of this beast. There could be several switches that each would hold. Only one would be be the death switch. That way, they all took part, but none could say that it was he that did it.

 

I don't like what I'm saying either, because it's not really me, and now I'm sorry I brought something so personal up. I think I have a dark side.

 

Bettina

[john5746]

I would like to know if the advocates of capital punishment on this forum would be personally able to take some one's life' date=' execute them, even if they did do something terrible. I know that I certainly couldn't do it. Call me weak, call me a coward, but I could not and would not do it!! I will not play God.[/quote']

 

I am sure I could. I had to kill my dogs when I was young, ala Ol' Yeller. I loved my dogs and they were good. I value their lives over a psychotic killer any day.

I am not playing God. If I were God, I wouldn't allow people like this to exist.

[budullewraagh]

you come across as somewhat self-righteous. "deliver his soul to satan". regardless of whether or not a person is going to hell, it is not our place, as humans, to judge. remember the scriptures