What would aliens look like?

[sam1123]

I find this whole concept fascinating, it got started as I have recently been playing the game Mass Effect, which involves many other alien species. It got me thinking that would other alien species look humanoid, or even be carbon based at all. As we humans are the result of thousands of years of evolution, maybe we have become a particularly effective end product. Would evolution effect aliens in the same way? Would evolution be very similar to species from other planets which have environments similar to that of our planet Earth? I have read a few interesting theories on what extraterrestrial life will look like, and to me due to the sheer vastness of the universe I believe it is impossible for other life on planets NOT to exist. Also how about alien language, would they speak telepathically? Would they be ever be able to learn English, Russian, Chinese, any of our human languages? And vice versa, would we be able to learns theirs? I think this topic could start some excellent discussion, I find exobiology and the possibility of extraterrestrial beings infinitely fascinating

[CaptainPanic]

It is quite funny that on earth, another group of creatures seems to have developed a complex brain (although not as complex as us): the octopus and squid family. It just shows that there is not 1 formula for the perfect intelligent being.

[sam1123]

It is quite funny that on earth, another group of creatures seems to have developed a complex brain (although not as complex as us): the octopus and squid family. It just shows that there is not 1 formula for the perfect intelligent being.

Yes I read a theory about this, that would be amazing. Do you think they would be sentient beings that communicated with one another? Do octopi and squid as we know communicate with each other? And what amazes me is that this is only carbon based life, I've heard theories about sulfur-based and silicon-based life forms too

[Phi for All]

One question I would love to see answered is about the number of limbs for vertebrates. We seem only to be able to have a maximum of four (two sets of two matching limbs), due to having evolved from lobe-finned fish 400 million years ago. Would it be possible to have vertebrates with six or eight limbs, having developed from a common ancestor with that kind of skeletal structure?

 

I can certainly see why it would be too costly to grow more limbs than your species has, but I wonder if a creature with more limbs would be more successful. Or would it require too much else to make it worthwhile, in terms of weight and organ placement?

[John Cuthber]

If the population of Earth is anything to go by*, most aliens will look small and unicellular.

 

 

* I know it isn't but it's as good a guess as any other.

[overtone]

For me, the combination most oddly absent among larger animals is exoskeleton and tentacle - sort of a squid version of the turtle, armadillo, hedgehog, etc.

 

There seems to be a size valley or gap that exoskeletons had a hard time breaching, between the large insects and the smaller endoskeletal critters - the endoskeletal critters enter it from above, the insects from below, but they both seem to hit a limit. We know that exoskeletal attributes have advantages at the larger sizes past the wall - witness turtle shells, skulls and shoulderblades, feathers and horns, the plate armor setups of various dinosaurs as well as armadillos and snakes, and the like. And we know that tentacle attributes have value at larger sizes - witness the elephant trunk, the prehensile tail, or even (consider it) the primate hand.

 

The failure of the six-limb deisgn to cross the size barrier seems chance, as well - not only does a tripod offer many advantages in primitive weight bearing locomotion, which gets the animal up and out unto the landscape, but the evolutionary opportunity of a pair of limbs available for modification in what would then be an efficientlyt quadrupedal animal seems obvious (look at the extraordinary development of bipedalism in hominids, for the price worth paying if the organism can get past the initial hit). We have several essentially four legged insects testifying to the opportunity (the praying mantis an obvious example).

[Moontanman]

One question I would love to see answered is about the number of limbs for vertebrates. We seem only to be able to have a maximum of four (two sets of two matching limbs), due to having evolved from lobe-finned fish 400 million years ago. Would it be possible to have vertebrates with six or eight limbs, having developed from a common ancestor with that kind of skeletal structure?

 

I can certainly see why it would be too costly to grow more limbs than your species has, but I wonder if a creature with more limbs would be more successful. Or would it require too much else to make it worthwhile, in terms of weight and organ placement?

 

On a planet with higher gravity six or more limbs might be better on large animals. I think the main reason arthropods have been crowded out of the large animal niches has more to do with less effective breathing apparatus than exoskeletons... then you have non vertebrates with internal skeletons, why didn't they conquer the land?

I find this whole concept fascinating, it got started as I have recently been playing the game Mass Effect, which involves many other alien species. It got me thinking that would other alien species look humanoid, or even be carbon based at all.

Carbon based? I'd almost bet the farm carbon is the backbone of all life forms. There are other possibilities of course, Boron chemistry is arguably more complex than Carbon chemistry but Boron is rare, silicon is rarer than carbon but more common on the earth than carbon yet all life we know is carbon based. Gold proposed that silicone type life might exist deep in the earth where temps and pressures radically change the properties of silicones, silicone might form life but it couldn't exist in current surface conditions. Silicon life might be possible in very low temps where silanes would dissolve in hydrocarbons but silanes have not been found in nature to my knowledge.

 

As we humans are the result of thousands of years of evolution, maybe we have become a particularly effective end product.

As for humanoid, I think an argument could be made for the humanoid body shape being conductive to intellegent life but I doubt you would mistake one of them for human. Humans are the result of billions of years of evolution...

 

Would evolution effect aliens in the same way? Would evolution be very similar to species from other planets which have environments similar to that of our planet Earth? I have read a few interesting theories on what extraterrestrial life will look like, and to me due to the sheer vastness of the universe I believe it is impossible for other life on planets NOT to exist.

I think life on other planets is a sure bet but I see no reason to expect it to be anything like earth life, vertebrates as we know them were at one time represented by one tiny fish like animal, if it had become extinct there would be no vertebrates and we would see all the ecological niches occupied by creatures nothing like what we see on earth...

 

Also how about alien language, would they speak telepathically?

I am curious why you would think telepathy is even a possibility.

 

Would they be ever be able to learn English, Russian, Chinese, any of our human languages? And vice versa, would we be able to learns theirs? I think this topic could start some excellent discussion, I find exobiology and the possibility of extraterrestrial beings infinitely fascinating

 

I am sure that if nothing else their computers could talk to ours but they might communicate with color changes or bio luminescence, cuttlefish seem to have complex communication skills based on colors and pattern changes on their skin. If they use sound it could be very high frequency like bats or very low frequency like elephants, so many possibilities...

 

The waves of light and dark flowing over the cuttlefish is not shadows but the actual changing color of the animal which it has conscious control over. All cephalopods have amazing control over color, shape, skin texture and can change colors so fast they look like strobes...

 

[sam1123]

On a planet with higher gravity six or more limbs might be better on large animals. I think the main reason arthropods have been crowded out of the large animal niches has more to do with less effective breathing apparatus than exoskeletons... then you have non vertebrates with internal skeletons, why didn't they conquer the land?

 

 

Carbon based? I'd almost bet the farm carbon is the backbone of all life forms. There are other possibilities of course, Boron chemistry is arguably more complex than Carbon chemistry but Boron is rare, silicon is rarer than carbon but more common on the earth than carbon yet all life we know is carbon based. Gold proposed that silicone type life might exist deep in the earth where temps and pressures radically change the properties of silicones, silicone might form life but it couldn't exist in current surface conditions. Silicon life might be possible in very low temps where silanes would dissolve in hydrocarbons but silanes have not been found in nature to my knowledge.

 

 

As for humanoid, I think an argument could be made for the humanoid body shape being conductive to intellegent life but I doubt you would mistake one of them for human. Humans are the result of billions of years of evolution...

 

 

I think life on other planets is a sure bet but I see no reason to expect it to be anything like earth life, vertebrates as we know them were at one time represented by one tiny fish like animal, if it had become extinct there would be no vertebrates and we would see all the ecological niches occupied by creatures nothing like what we see on earth...

 

 

I am curious why you would think telepathy is even a possibility.

 

 

 

I am sure that if nothing else their computers could talk to ours but they might communicate with color changes or bio luminescence, cuttlefish seem to have complex communication skills based on colors and pattern changes on their skin. If they use sound it could be very high frequency like bats or very low frequency like elephants, so many possibilities...

 

The waves of light and dark flowing over the cuttlefish is not shadows but the actual changing color of the animal which it has conscious control over. All cephalopods have amazing control over color, shape, skin texture and can change colors so fast they look like strobes...

 

Okay so telepathy may be far fetched haha, I'm just trying to keep an open mind without letting my mind stray too far from reality! Bio-luminescence and high frequency sound are interesting theories. Do you think they would have any other sense that we may not have, or just maybe far advanced like the scent of a dog?

Also you make a good point about carbon based life, I wonder if there is even a possibility of any other element based life forms? Now I think about it, I don't really see how there can be any other species as advanced as humans that would not be carbon based.

Also sorry for the small scale of thousands when talking about evolution, I was in a rush to type that first comment!

I am also interested about the possibility of non vertebrates like squid type animals, do you think that if evolution was repeated on a planet with a very similar environment then because of many minor changes in many factors that this would have an effect on the end products of evolution? Maybe with a different combination of factors there would be a humanoid derivation?

You said you didn't know why non-vertebrates did not conquer land, do you think that in different circumstances that they may be the dominant species on a planet in the same way that humans are on our planet?

Also I wonder if they are as technologically advanced as us, whether they would be nearly the same as ours. Maybe they have their own concept of mathematics, maybe they have different materials, or maybe the have advanced years ahead of our own technology.

Edited August 13, 2013 by CaptainPanic
Placed the answer of sam1123 outside the quote box.

[Moontanman]

I think that hybridizing technologies from different technological species would have far reaching effects and would probably be the single most obvious advantage to contact.

 

Technologies millions of years ahead of us might be indistinguishable by us from magic. I think there is something called the law of mediocrity that says we are likely about average in age as a civilization but I can't see how that could be asserted with only one data point.

 

The idea of a technological intelligence that develops on a world very close to it's star, very high temps, maybe liquid aluminum as a solvent and some sort of bio metallic compounds would be a treasure trove of knowledge if we could exchange ideas IMHO... But really any cross pollinating of technologies would be fruitful...

 

The non vertebrates with internal skeletons on Earth would be echinoderms, if vertebrates hadn't prospered they might have be able to come out on land and compete with arthropods but it is of course complete speculation but assuming that life on another planet would resemble ours in the slightest is speculation as well, I see no reason to assume life on another planet would be anything like life on Earth other than broad strokes ...

[Ophiolite]

It's fun to speculate, but ultimately the clue is in the question: aliens would look...........alien.

[Moontanman]

It's fun to speculate, but ultimately the clue is in the question: aliens would look...........alien.

 

 

Yes the enormous range of animal types on Earth from cephalopods to arthropods, echinoderms to vertebrates and the sometimes really weird animal types from the Cambrian explosion many of which died out sometimes for reasons that were quite random from asteroid hits to mass lava outflows and super volcanoes there is a real random element to that which survives even if the "tape" of earth were replayed the outcome would almost certainly be wildly different resulting in life forms as alien as any we would expect on another planet...

 

 

[CaptainPanic]

I think the one feature that almost all animals have in common is that we're all essentially a tube, where food goes in at one end, and shit comes out the other end. I don't see why alien life would even have that in common.

[sam1123]

I think that hybridizing technologies from different technological species would have far reaching effects and would probably be the single most obvious advantage to contact.

 

Technologies millions of years ahead of us might be indistinguishable by us from magic. I think there is something called the law of mediocrity that says we are likely about average in age as a civilization but I can't see how that could be asserted with only one data point.

 

The idea of a technological intelligence that develops on a world very close to it's star, very high temps, maybe liquid aluminum as a solvent and some sort of bio metallic compounds would be a treasure trove of knowledge if we could exchange ideas IMHO... But really any cross pollinating of technologies would be fruitful...

 

The non vertebrates with internal skeletons on Earth would be echinoderms, if vertebrates hadn't prospered they might have be able to come out on land and compete with arthropods but it is of course complete speculation but assuming that life on another planet would resemble ours in the slightest is speculation as well, I see no reason to assume life on another planet would be anything like life on Earth other than broad strokes ...

 

Oh I agree, I find it amazing that there may be another species out there that is technologically advanced but it a totally different way to us using different theories, concepts and materials. The possibilities are endless!

 

 

 

Yes the enormous range of animal types on Earth from cephalopods to arthropods, echinoderms to vertebrates and the sometimes really weird animal types from the Cambrian explosion many of which died out sometimes for reasons that were quite random from asteroid hits to mass lava outflows and super volcanoes there is a real random element to that which survives even if the "tape" of earth were replayed the outcome would almost certainly be wildly different resulting in life forms as alien as any we would expect on another planet...

 

 

 

 

I find that incredible, life as we know it in another circumstance on Earth would be completely different, that just puts into perspective how many possibilities there are for life from other planets and other environments

Also I wonder if aliens are as curious or even knowledgeable about other life in the universe? Maybe there is a race close to light speed travel technology? Do you think they would be peaceful or aggressive? I think if they are sentient like us then they would surely be curious enough to want to establish contact. We often think of our technology being able to go to other planets/solar systems, but what about the possibility of an alien race doing it first? That would be truly amazing

Edited August 13, 2013 by sam1123

[Greg H.]

One question I would love to see answered is about the number of limbs for vertebrates. We seem only to be able to have a maximum of four (two sets of two matching limbs), due to having evolved from lobe-finned fish 400 million years ago. Would it be possible to have vertebrates with six or eight limbs, having developed from a common ancestor with that kind of skeletal structure?

 

I can certainly see why it would be too costly to grow more limbs than your species has, but I wonder if a creature with more limbs would be more successful. Or would it require too much else to make it worthwhile, in terms of weight and organ placement?

If we're going to speculate, then I don't see why a vertebrate with more than four limbs would be out of the realm of possibility. Obviously, we don't have any on Earth, but given the correct evolutionary motivations, I don't think it would be far-fetched.

 

If you take a look at the "science" behind the movie Avatar, you'll find a lot of interesting thought went into designing what the movie's animal creatures would look like - a kind of evolutionary gedanken experiment.

 

To your original question, I agree that you wouldn't get a human (or any other Earth vertebrate) with six limbs - the genetic code isn't there (so far as we know). We have not, to my knowledge, discovered any vertebrates in the fossil record with more than four limbs. There may be some much more distant common relative in the invertebrate family with more than four limbs, but evolution seems to have decided we don't really have any selective pressure to maintain more than four. That said, I don't think that puts it outside the realm of possibility that somewhere in the universe exists a vertebrate with more than four limbs. Proving it, of course, it a whole other matter.

[sam1123]

It is quite funny that on earth, another group of creatures seems to have developed a complex brain (although not as complex as us): the octopus and squid family. It just shows that there is not 1 formula for the perfect intelligent being.

 

Also thank you for editing my reply, I have a habit of typing it in the wrong place when I reply too quickly

[overtone]

One of the most likely alien designs, based on our earth experience, would be a six limbed endoskeletal critter with two of the limbs modified for soemthing other than locomotion - anything from ambush predation to ritual combat to foraging to flight.

[Moontanman]

One of the most likely alien designs, based on our earth experience, would be a six limbed endoskeletal critter with two of the limbs modified for soemthing other than locomotion - anything from ambush predation to ritual combat to foraging to flight.

 

 

Did you mean endoskeletol or exoskeletol?

[overtone]

Endo.

 

easier to scale up.

 

It just seems, intuitively, that the initial fixation in four limbed mode was a bottleneck and an arbitrary one - the fact that humans had to become bipedal, an extraordinary and unlikely development that took the better part of a billion years, to free a couple of limbs for all the advantages available thereby, seems to me to point to an apparently more likely route to becoming an alien a human would ever be likely to meet.

Edited August 15, 2013 by overtone

[Tomatoes]

Would they be ever be able to learn English, Russian, Chinese, any of our human languages? And vice versa, would we be able to learns theirs?

 

Well we could probally find a way to communicate if we really wanted to. We can kind of communicate with are pet dogs, and cats and other animals, but we do that through body language and with the pitch of our voice. I'm sure if someone invested enough money we would be able to speak to the aliens.

[Zant]

I would say that the humanoid shape is a optimal shape on earth but not necessarily on other planets but if they would evolve a humanoid shape I like to believe that many games and science fiction are within the range on what a humanoid alien might look like. Well maybe not the Asari who are at the very general level humans with blue skin.

[CaptainPanic]

I would say that the humanoid shape is a optimal shape on earth but not necessarily on other planets but if they would evolve a humanoid shape I like to believe that many games and science fiction are within the range on what a humanoid alien might look like. Well maybe not the Asari who are at the very general level humans with blue skin.

 

Optimal for what? Getting spine-injuries or back-injuries? Quite a few systems in our bodies were designed for walking on 4 legs. In order to free up two limbs, we made a few sacrifices. The design is still good, but it is far from perfect.

[Zant]

 

Optimal for what? Getting spine-injuries or back-injuries? Quite a few systems in our bodies were designed for walking on 4 legs. In order to free up two limbs, we made a few sacrifices. The design is still good, but it is far from perfect.

I could have phrased that a lot better.But overall its the best system we have that I know even if it not perfect.

[Ultermarto]

Well the way I see it, it all depends on what kind of living systems are easiest or most possible to develop in the universe. Not just on planets like ours, mind you, but in any conceivable place. Perhaps earth-like planets tend to produce organisms that somewhat resemble our own biosphere, or perhaps the aliens that develop can be of many different types. Maybe other biospheres would change and arise not through evolution as we know it, but through some other process that has yet to be thought of. Maybe organisms with cells, tissue, nervous systems, appendages, nutrition intake, sensory organs and genetics really is the most likely formula to arise, and most aliens that we'll see out in the cosmos will resemble life on our own planet, to a certain extent.

[Moontanman]

I could have phrased that a lot better.But overall its the best system we have that I know even if it not perfect.

It's the only system we have... what is your point?

[Ophiolite]

I think the one feature that almost all animals have in common is that we're all essentially a tube, where food goes in at one end, and shit comes out the other end. I don't see why alien life would even have that in common.

Is that a comment on alien philosophy? Do you mean to say that aliens wouldn't give a shit?