A holy language

[Starburst]

Hello I'm new to the forum, I've looked around a bit and I'm not sure where to post about this.

Anyhow, I was recently at a conference and bought a new book called ""in search of the holy language"".

Didn’t really know what I was getting into until I started reading it and finally got the gist of it. The concept and nature of the book was so powerful that I had to contact my pastor to talk about it. It blew the pastors mind too. This sent me on a search to learn more about religion and scripture. So that is why I am here, to learn more, and share.

If I may share with you a little about the book, which has prompted me to become more religious and to piece more of the missing answers together. After reading this book there is no doubt left in my mind that God is real and that there is ample enough evidence staring us right in the face in the natural and physical world. According to this book the author demonstrates how all of the Hebrew letters are produced from one particular spiral form, which is based on the Fibonacci series that is found everywhere in the natural world. Accordingly, from cited ancient texts like the kabala the author claims that is was well understood that God used these letters to create all things in existence. ...And that it is a language that controls all things at every given moment. The book is shocking as well as astounding and connects it to ancient monuments like the Great Pyramid of Egypt, the Mayan runes, the Freemasons, and the physics of sound and vibration.

Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

 

 

[Iota]

After reading this book there is no doubt left in my mind that God is real and that there is ample enough evidence staring us right in the face in the natural and physical world.

 

We go only by Scientific Evidence in these lands. BE GONE!

 

Welcome to the forums!

[ADreamIveDreamt]

You're on the right path,just connect the dots.

 

 

 

...Scientist used to glorify God.

[Iota]

You're on the right path,just connect the dots.

 

 

 

...Scientist used to glorify God.

 

That's right, connect the dots in whatever way pleases your definition of evidence. Solidify the falsity of your beliefs and delusions, that way they become more true and you can cast out your previous doubts regardless of rationality, and rest your mind at ease from anything contrary.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Iota

[ADreamIveDreamt]

A broken heart is always at War.

[Iota]

A broken heart is always at War.

 

Your profile: 'Interests: The Truth'

 

That's a lie.

[WWLabRat]

Hello I'm new to the forum, I've looked around a bit and I'm not sure where to post about this.

 

Anyhow, I was recently at a conference and bought a new book called ""in search of the holy language"".

 

Didn’t really know what I was getting into until I started reading it and finally got the gist of it. The concept and nature of the book was so powerful that I had to contact my pastor to talk about it. It blew the pastors mind too. This sent me on a search to learn more about religion and scripture. So that is why I am here, to learn more, and share.

 

If I may share with you a little about the book, which has prompted me to become more religious and to piece more of the missing answers together. After reading this book there is no doubt left in my mind that God is real and that there is ample enough evidence staring us right in the face in the natural and physical world. According to this book the author demonstrates how all of the Hebrew letters are produced from one particular spiral form, which is based on the Fibonacci series that is found everywhere in the natural world. Accordingly, from cited ancient texts like the kabala the author claims that is was well understood that God used these letters to create all things in existence. ...And that it is a language that controls all things at every given moment. The book is shocking as well as astounding and connects it to ancient monuments like the Great Pyramid of Egypt, the Mayan runes, the Freemasons, and the physics of sound and vibration.

 

Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

 

 

 

Honestly, this sounds more like an advertisement than anything. I do have a few questions/favors to ask of you...

 

-We have a title for the book, but no author... Who wrote this "powerful" book? Surely they would want to be given credit for their research.

-What type of conference was it that you were attending when you discovered this book that causes such drastic paradigm shifts?

-How exactly does the shape of letters, regardless of origin, control all things? Last I checked there aren't any Hebrew letters that are in the shape of a spiral, such as is the shape of our own galaxy...

-What evidence is there that would make a forum full of scientists (who rely on physical, repeatable evidence) to take this as anything other than religious propaganda?

-Last question: You are aware that you posted this on a science forum, right? As such, the favor I ask of you, again, is to please provide evidence to back up your OP.

[Bill Angel]

After reading this book there is no doubt left in my mind that God is real and that there is ample enough evidence staring us right in the face in the natural and physical world.

You are invoking what is usually termed the Argument from Design

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument#Creation_Science_and_intelligent_design

If you possess an open mind, you might wish to read the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

 

Short answer - the presence of beauty and "design" in nature does not provide evidence for the existence of a Diety.

[Starburst]

Hello everyone and thanks for your replies. I have posted on other forums as well looking for answers to no avail, and I think that this may actually be the place I can encounter some intelligent people, both scientific and religious minded.

 

The author of the book is Anita Meyer and at first I did not get the whole concept of what she was trying to put across, but as I continued to read through the book all of a sudden the bells in my mind started chiming, it was an aha moment where everything seemed to coalesce together.

 

I did an internet search and this is all that I could find on it (picture wise from inside the book).

 

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/meyer-explanation.png

 

Apparently from what I am understanding is that when you turn this spiral form around in different directions you can see all the different forms of the Hebrew alphabet. There are 27 Hebrew letters and they are all illustrated with the authors hand in the book. Additionally the spiral form is not a random form since it is based on a mathematical unit of growth that is found throughout the entire natural world (the Fibonacci sequence). Accordingly when Moses was given the 10 commandments on Mt. Sinai during the Exodus from Egypt it is specified that God wrote these laws with His own finger of fire onto the stone tablets (this is specified in the bible several times) and which these same letters have been exactly copied and reiterated in the Torah we have today. The author claims that if there is a creator that created all things in existence this would be the defining proof. So the author is saying that the link between the letters and Gods word correlating with nature is definite proof of a creator and a creator that has told us that he spoke everything into existence. …and God said, “let there be light” and there was light…

 

Then the book goes on to explain that the Hebrew alphabet (each individual letter) is a language based on frequency and modulation and was somehow connected to the ancient (pre flood) civilization, monuments and ruins like the great pyramid and the Mayan ruins. The author explains that the tower of Babel mentioned in the bible was disseminated on account of it having the power with frequency to control the natural environment and the weather very similar to the technology we have today with the military Haarp facility. This is what the author accounts for why God came down and confused the language and why we have all the different languages today. It is a quite interesting analogy that makes logical sense.

 

The author also goes on to explain how there are certain people in the world that have this knowledge like the Freemasons and have incorporated this language/frequency into the new technology that allows them to control the world. In essence, frequency controls everything.

 

Additionally according to author, this is the most suppressed knowledge in the world and the most powerful! For me it is a shocking realization that gaps both science and religion, and past history, with current history.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Starburst

[Arete]

So it starts by using the Bible as a source of factual evidence, uses numerological methods to link events, involves an all controlling, mystical "force" and culminates in a global conspiracy theory?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Arete

[Strange]

There are so many things wrong with this idea, it is hard to know where to start. But a couple of the more obvious points:

 

1. Why the Hebrew alphabet? After all, the original texts were not written in Hebrew nor using the Hebrew alphabet. This is almost as intelligent as arguments that God speaks English or Latin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWKy4RHf5tQ

 

2. The history of the various Semitic writing systems is extremely well documented from almost 3,000BC. We know that no magic spirals were involved in producing the Hebrew abjad.

[Starburst]

So it starts by using the Bible as a source of factual evidence, uses numerological methods to link events, involves an all controlling, mystical "force" and culminates in a global conspiracy theory?

Putting it in another way......... It starts by observing nature (the visible world), then being able to connect it to the bible, Gods word. Yes and I also forgot, this language/writing ties in with the star constellations, mostly seen in the star patterns above the great pyramid, which is a Hebrew letter P pattern, the same pattern found in the Freemason ruler with the letter G. However the G is really supposed to be inversed to that of a Hebrew letter P, which means/symbolizes MOUTH in Hebrew. The time period and precession (I think it’s called?) is in line with the "new world order".

 

Mason symbol http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/sandc.jpg

 

Hebrew letter Pey http://clavielle.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/peh_or_pey_001.png

 

Sorry I could not find the picture of the 7 stars above the great pyramid that forms this Hebrew letter on the internet, but the picture is in the book.

There are so many things wrong with this idea, it is hard to know where to start. But a couple of the more obvious points:

 

1. Why the Hebrew alphabet? After all, the original texts were not written in Hebrew nor using the Hebrew alphabet. This is almost as intelligent as arguments that God speaks English or Latin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWKy4RHf5tQ

 

2. The history of the various Semitic writing systems is extremely well documented from almost 3,000BC. We know that no magic spirals were involved in producing the Hebrew abjad.

Thanks for the Youtube video, it was certainly funny!

 

This is what I initially thought about writing and languages, but come to find out that the oldest writing is Sumerian cuneiform and in the book the author shows that this writing (cuneiform) are the same exact letters of the Hebrew letters, only the cuneiform letters are turned to the left because apparently it was easier to carve the letters using this method. Additionally I think the dead sea scrolls are proof that the hebrew letters and wording did not change.

 

The book shows the progression that each letter took to get to the letters we use today. Wish I could find more info on it.

You are invoking what is usually termed the Argument from Design

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument#Creation_Science_and_intelligent_design

If you possess an open mind, you might wish to read the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

 

Short answer - the presence of beauty and "design" in nature does not provide evidence for the existence of a Diety.

Hi Bill, I’ve read this book and I’m not particularly open to Dawkins mind set. However I do have an open mind when it comes to these matters, but what Dawkins purposes still does not add up, and as much as he would like to talk about evolution, there is still not enough OBSERVED evidence for me.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Starburst

[Strange]

This is what I initially thought about writing and languages, but come to find out that the oldest writing is Sumerian cuneiform and in the book the author shows that this writing (cuneiform) are the same exact letters of the Hebrew letters

 

They are very obviously NOT "the same exact letters". Also, the gradual evolution from early scripts to all branches of semitic writing are well documented and do not involve the sort of nonsense you are describing. Again: why pick on Hebrew as it is just one of a large number of scripts that developed from the same origins. Oh, I know, because it was used to write a book you are fond of.

 

But other scripts were used to write other books that are equally important to other people. So why weren't they created by magic spirals?

 

Also note that the Sumerian language is not a semitic language and that the writing system pre-dates the writing of your fave book.

 

Writing has been invented a few times around the world. Why pick on this one as being "special"? (Oh, yes, I remember; your favourite fairy tales, etc...)

[Arete]

and as much as he would like to talk about evolution, there is still not enough OBSERVED evidence for me.

 

So there's enough "observed" evidence to support the tower of Babel being able to control the weather, but not for the theory of evolution?

[Iota]

 

So there's enough "observed" evidence to support the tower of Babel being able to control the weather, but not for the theory of evolution?

 

Exactly, why don't you demand the same standard of evidence for the claims made in this book of yours, as you do for scientific theories such as evolution?

 

As for 'observed evidence', there is tonnes of observed evidence in fossils and genetics. You just can't be bothered to look, you'd rather assume there is no evidence, when actually there clearly is. What you're asking for is to see evolution occurring in real time right before your very eyes. Yet I assume you accept the fact that the Earth orbits around the Sun, and not the other way round?

[Arete]

What you're asking for is to see evolution occurring in real time right before your very eyes.

 

Like the Lenski experiment?

[Iota]

 

Like the Lenski experiment?

 

That's why you're the biology expert! Very interesting.

 

Still, it seems the only evidence these religionists who reject evolution will accept is seeing a 'monkey' transform into a homosapien, right before their very eyes. And repeatedly they come out with the argument that if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes today? As if that means anything at all.

 

I think it's clever how E. Coli can be manipulated in such a way that to produce pure diesel, purely through metabolism. Saw something on that last night think I'll read up on it now, as it's come up.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Iota

[Arete]

Still, it seems the only evidence these religionists who reject evolution will accept is seeing a 'monkey' transform into a homosapien, right before their very eyes. And repeatedly they come out with the argument that if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes today? As if that means anything at all.

 

Actually, the tactic used in the ensuing drama after the paper was published was to simply make the baseless claim that Prof. Lenski and his co-authors made up the data.

[Iota]

 

Actually, the tactic used in the ensuing drama after the paper was published was to simply make the baseless claim that Prof. Lenski and his co-authors made up the data.

 

Of course.

 

I meant the argument to do with evolution in general, rather than the Lenski experiment specifically.

[Starburst]

I will admit I’m not the expert when it comes to writing and languages, but what I do know is that I can personally see clear evidence that shows me similarity in the letters. For instance, in the pictures below I was able to look up just a few of the matching cuneiform letters compared to the Hebrew letter.

 

http://www.carolineludovici.com/uploads/3/4/5/2/3452083/5680310.jpg?581

 

Hebrew letter Gimel matches with the cuneiform letter G (notice how the letter is turned sideways to the left: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBg00asuG0VFP_LVetMUmEX0PL6SwuTnAiTFrCur4gKBbAHUXY

 

Hebrew letter Yod matches with cuneiform letter for a dot/jot/title: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQepBi0aWw0HXyJCAvkLKyt1grTYz717QthoYv4RSkVidr4pJWR

 

This one is a dead giveaway! The Hebrew letter Shin matches perfectly with cuneiform letter S: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRituSv-Glra2YTEcYC4sm54ChSzoBiTzMzZwTak9XPWLNMp6P

 

I am also no expert on the evolution theory, I just have a personal gut feeling that it is wrong and many things do not add up.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Starburst

[Strange]

 

I will admit I’m not the expert when it comes to writing and languages, but what I do know is that I can personally see clear evidence that shows me similarity in the letters.

 

Hmmm... Actually, I thought there was something else wrong. Although the first Semitic language (Sumerian) was written using cuneiform, this was not the origin of the Hebrew alphabet, all the other Semitic scripts and the vast majority of writing systems in the world (including this one). So I see even less reason for picking out Hebrew as "the chosen one".

 

Your god apparently designed a writing system based on pictures of birds and animals for use by a polytheistic culture, thousands of years before anyone had heard of "yahweh", which would evolve into hundreds and hundreds of different alphabets, syllabaries and abdads including one tiny dead-end branch called Hebrew that somehow involves magic spirals.

 

Right.

 

And yet you, with little knowledge of the subject, find this guff utterly convincing. While, on the other hand, dismissing a theory supported by literally mountains of evidence based on a "gut feeling".

 

Excuse me if I find your arguments utterly worthless.

 

p.s.

 

This one is a dead giveaway! The Hebrew letter Shin matches perfectly with cuneiform letter S:

 

That was the first one I thought to check before looking at your images. My immediate reaction was that the best match to shin was the Ugaritic U. This is certainly a better match than the S. <shrug>

 

But note that this cuneiform script is unrelated to the Sumerian and Akkadian scripts. It may be another branch in the same extend family from which Hebrew hangs like a tiny leaf, which could account for some of the similarities. But that is not certain and the apparent similarities could be down to chance. It is certainly not what Hebrew is derived from. At best they are very distant cousins.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Strange

[Starburst]

There is a theory by linguists that all languages came from one original language.

[Iota]

There is a theory by linguists that all languages came from one original language.

 

So what?

[Starburst]

Have you ever heard of Edenics?

 

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/36_introduction.html

 

Here is a letter chart that shows similarities http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

 

Watch the video explaining it better http://www.edenics.net/video/origin-of-language.aspx

Edited September 7, 2013 by Starburst

[John Cuthber]

That chart seems to miss out the stage the precedes the Hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet

and the one that precedes Phoenician

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic

and so on

So, it seems that Hebrew is derivative and as such can't be thought of as anything special- it was just one of a series of alphabets (Abjads if anyone's getting technical).