psychcic powers ????

[gamefreek_01]

Hello people i would like to give my opinion and say i dont beilve in all psychic powers like pyro kenisis and telekinesis and telepathy is probly possilbe, in disscussions like these its better to anylse the sceince in it and not the tests like our brian cells emit brain waves which could likley be picked up by other people aroound us while predicting the future or such is implausible

[Newtonian]

go to www.randi.org[/url'] and browse the commentary archive. All of the tests with guys like Uri Geller are just like this: complete failures.

Then you should take in more literature.Forget all the 'my son has a friend at the bottom of the garden,his finger glows red and he keeps asking to phone home'.

Darren Brown has shown body language and suggestion accounts for many things we consider psychic.However at his height of fame,Uri Geller was a phenonemon,under strict scientific testing Geller bent keys,spoons,made watches work etc etc.Nobody in our science community says this part of his repertoire is fake.Nobody can explain how/why it is so.

He has been subject to many experiments,which to the present date outcome have never been proven false.

So dont dismiss so flippantly people to whom you could never aspire.

[Coral Rhedd]

Hi Newtonian,

 

I find your information on Geller interesting. Any references, links, etc. so that I can read more?

 

Regards,

Coral

[Hellbender]

Darren Brown has shown body language and suggestion accounts for many things we consider psychic.However at his height of fame' date='Uri Geller was a phenonemon,under strict scientific testing Geller bent keys,spoons,made watches work etc etc.Nobody in our science community says this part of his repertoire is fake.Nobody can explain how/why it is so.

He has been subject to many experiments,which to the present date outcome have never been proven false..[/quote']

 

Actaully he was proven false in the 70's by James Randi. Or read one of Randi's books to see how mentalists really do their tricks.

 

So dont dismiss so flippantly people to whom you could never aspire.

 

Researching and reading about someone who claims to be psychic is not "flippantly dismissing". Go to randi.org and read the commentary. There is lots about Uri Geller there and I have read it all.

[Hellbender]

Hello people i would like to give my opinion and say i dont beilve in all psychic powers like pyro kenisis and telekinesis and telepathy is probly possilbe, in disscussions like these its better to anylse the sceince in it and not the tests like our brian cells emit brain waves which could likley be picked up by other people aroound us while predicting the future or such is implausible

 

there is a "science" of it. Stage tricks, sleight of hand and conjuring.

[gamefreek_01]

actuly no when i mean science i mean apply scientific knowledge to nuderstanding whether or not the psychic ability is plausible.

[Hellbender]

actuly no when i mean science i mean apply scientific knowledge to nuderstanding whether or not the psychic ability is plausible.

 

I'm not sure, but it must have been done. The JREF Million dollar test is a challenge for so-called psychics and other such claimants to test and prove their abilities in a controlled environment. So far no one has won the "easy" million.

 

I don't think scientific knowledge can easily be applied for a lot of reasons. It defies scientific measurement. Now people may say this is becasue science can't yet describe these mystical powers, and that is a good defense, but I happen to be in the camp that thinks it is all frauds using stage tricks and sleight of hand and playing guessing games. In fact, all those psychic "readers" do just that. For a psychic, John Edward (for example) asks a lot of questions.

[swansont]

I don't think scientific knowledge can easily be applied for a lot of reasons. It defies scientific measurement. Now people may say this is becasue science can't yet describe these mystical powers, and that is a good defense, but I happen to be in the camp that thinks it is all frauds using stage tricks and sleight of hand and playing guessing games. In fact, all those psychic "readers" do just that. For a psychic, John Edward (for example) asks a lot of questions.

 

Even if you take the position that the process cannot be explained by science, you can still demonstrate whether a psychic can do better than chance at determining results in a controlled test.

[Hellbender]

Even if you take the position that the process cannot be explained by science, you can still demonstrate whether a psychic can do better than chance at determining results in a controlled test.

 

I personally don't take that position, but it is used by a lot of psychics to support their claims. I agree with you completely, though. Chance is actually better at determining results, in the accounts of tests I have read at randi.org.

[swansont]

I personally don't take that position, but it is used by a lot of psychics to support their claims.

 

Actually I don't think they do. The generally run, not walk, in the other direction when someone proposes a controlled test. The few that do submit, and fail, generally complain that the controlled conditions somehow interfere with their powers.

[Hellbender]

Actually I don't think they do. The generally run, not walk, in the other direction when someone proposes a controlled test. The few that do submit, and fail, generally complain that the controlled conditions somehow interfere with their powers.

 

lol, how true. Excuses excuses. The "science can't measure my ability" is one. I like the "it interferes with my powers" too. Others include "my powers can't be turned on or off" or "I have nothing to prove to you" are other ways they weedle out of controlled tests.

[gamefreek_01]

i mean take into account in the case of telepathy to understand that our brain use brain waves( lower frequency then radio rays) to communicate with cells inside yuor brain these waves could go outside yuor head as yuo think and other people can pick it up thats what i mean by applying scientific knowledge.

[Hellbender]

well thats possible, but take into consideration that all claimants for talents such as this are most likely frauds who have no such powers, making it quite difficult to study. I know what you mean, gamefreek, but we can't apply knowledge to something which doesn't exist. Hypothetically, the psychic would have to complete a test (like the JREF challenge) proving that that claimant has such powers before you can have a subject for testing how they work.

[Hellbender]

To keep this thread going, I will post some links, all from the JREF commentary archive:

 

http://www.randi.org/jr/092404from.html

Account of telekinesis, first two articles

 

http://www.randi.org/jr/082903.html

Uri Geller's family vacation, about a quarter down the page

 

http://www.randi.org/jr/111403.html

Pet Psychic(!) Goofs, second to last article on page

 

Enjoy!

[Ophiolite]

I've voted 'cannot say'. Scientists have problems, as Kuhn demonstrated, of even contemplating the possibility of phenomena that do not fit there operational paradigms. There is no place for psychic phenomena in current science, so any evidence, buried as it would be in the mire of fraud and self delusion, will be invisible.

[swansont]

I've voted 'cannot say'. Scientists have problems, as Kuhn demonstrated, of even contemplating the possibility of phenomena that do not fit there operational paradigms. There is no place for psychic phenomena in current science, so any evidence, buried as it would be in the mire of fraud and self delusion, will be invisible.

 

I reiterate what I said in post 33. Even if you can't explain the phenomenon in question, you can still test the outcomes scientifically - using standard double-blind systems, etc.

 

If you can't do better than random chance, statistically, in a controlled test, than you have not demonstrated psychic ability. That's the first hurdle. Actually demonstrate that the phenomenon actually exists, and then you can start investigating the mechanisms.

[Hellbender]

If you can't do better than random chance, statistically, in a controlled test, than you have not demonstrated psychic ability. That's the first hurdle. Actually demonstrate that the phenomenon actually exists, and then you can start investigating the mechanisms.

 

exactly. All have failed such testing, or would fail, that is problem #1 in trying to test psychic mechanisms.

[boxhead]

well thats possible, but take into consideration that all claimants for talents such as this are most likely frauds who have no such powers, making it quite difficult to study. I know what you mean, gamefreek, but we can't apply knowledge to something which doesn't exist. Hypothetically, the psychic would have to complete a test (like the JREF challenge) proving that that claimant has such powers before you can have a subject for testing how they work.

so ur atleast agreed.

[mustang292]

Dolphins use Sonar to find prey. This fact alone leaves us with alot of mysteries as to what the Brain itself can do. I believe it is highly feasable that we could have the capacity to do the same if not more if only evolution would push us to need to use it.

 

There are alot of crackpots out there, however, I have had too many experiences of my own to dicount ESP.

[Hellbender]

so ur atleast agreed.

 

I am agreed that we need to know what we are studying before anyone even tries to. I am a hard skeptic about this kind of stuff, so i doubt there is anything there.