Bigfoot

[WVBIG47]

http://www.livescience.com/39785-bigfoot-map-sasquatch-sightings-gis.html?cmpid=545410 Opinions please

[swansont]

Opinions on what? It's a map of bigfoot sightings.

 

The counterargument to bigfoot, et. al, in graphical form: http://xkcd.com/1235/

[WVBIG47]

Opinions on what? It's a map of bigfoot sightings.

 

The counterargument to bigfoot, et. al, in graphical form: http://xkcd.com/1235/

In your opinion, does this map being on the LiveScience website lend credibility to the possibility of Bigfoot?

[Klaynos]

In your opinion, does this map being on the LiveScience website lend credibility to the possibility of Bigfoot?

Nope.

[swansont]

In your opinion, does this map being on the LiveScience website lend credibility to the possibility of Bigfoot?

 

No. This is an article on statistics and data analysis, not Bigfoot.

 

"Despite his exhaustive analysis of the BFRO data, Stevens stops short of giving the information more credibility than it deserves. "Ultimately, I'm not convinced there's a descendant of [giant ape] Gigantopithecus playing hide-and-seek in the Pacific Northwest," Stevens said."

[Moontanman]

My main problem with bigfoot is that there are no bigfoot road kills, in the US any animal that exists eventually ends up as road kill, humans even end up as road kill, no bigfoot road kills no bigfoot...

[Arete]

An ecological niche model based on bigfoot sightings overlaps astonishingly well with that of the black bear...

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2699.2009.02152.x/full

[WVBIG47]

My main problem with bigfoot is that there are no bigfoot road kills, in the US any animal that exists eventually ends up as road kill, humans even end up as road kill, no bigfoot road kills no bigfoot...

Actually the number of sightings indicate they are much more rare than other animals & are most often seen in remote areas

An ecological niche model based on bigfoot sightings overlaps astonishingly well with that of the black bear...

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2699.2009.02152.x/full

I've noticed they are usually seen in areas where there are bears & it makes sense that the other animals you mentioned, would also be in the same area. I can only think of one place where a property owner claims sightings that there are no bears & his claims are highly suspicious to me. He talks like they are seen often on his 1500 acre property, but he's had 15 experienced hunters hunting his property for a mature male specimen for 20 years, without success. If Bigfoots are as plentiful as he indicates, getting a mature male specimen should've taken a week at the most

Edited September 24, 2013 by WVBIG47

[Moontanman]

Actually the number of sightings indicate they are much more rare than other animals & are most often seen in remote areas

That is really besides the point, even very rare animals show up as road kill, I live in an area where pygmy rattle snakes are supposed to be non existent but I have found three in the past 10 years as road kill. If they are as wide spread as claimed they must cross roads occasionally, in fact they have been reported crossing roads, highways, even interstates, you would expect to see "bigfeet" dead on the road at least occasionally...

[arc]

We should have some kind of fossil evidence of its origins, in the U.S. or from where they migrated from in Asia. Or newer skeletal evidence. I would assume something would kill and eat a Bigfoot, in recent history like a grizzly or in the past like a saber tooth 15,000 years ago.

 

There have been no bones found at the bottom of dormant volcanic vents or lava tube openings or any of the uncounted vertical mine shafts which are abundant in the N.W. U.S. These things collect many deer and elk and an occasional human who wasn't paying attention. But these deadly traps have never once caught a Bigfoot wandering around day or even night when many accounts claim to have heard them.

 

Show me a skull or some bones, old or new and I'm interested. But I have heard these stories all my life and that is all they are, folklore.

[ajb]

You are all looking in the wrong place. Try Tunbridge Wells, Kent, Great Britian.

[pears]

If it was in The Sun it must be true.

[WVBIG47]

Fossil evidence of Chimpanzees wasn't found until relatively recently. If the Patterson/Gimlin film is real, Bigfoot has a head like a Gorilla. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume it also has a mandible like a Gorilla & therefore if a mandible were found, a skeptic would assume someone was trying to perpetrate a hoax with a Gorilla mandible, since Gorillas are scientifically proven to exist and Bigfoot isn't? A few years ago, a Bigfoot researcher found what appeared to be a Bigfoot skull in Ohio. Dr. Esteban Sarmiento looked at it & ruled it a Babboon skull, without any DNA testing. So how will proper testing ever get done if bones are found?

[ajb]

A few years ago, a Bigfoot researcher found what appeared to be a Bigfoot skull in Ohio. Dr. Esteban Sarmiento looked at it & ruled it a Babboon skull, without any DNA testing.

I assume that Sarmiento knows exactly what a Baboon skull looks like. Thus, I assume that his opinion was that no further investigation needs to be conducted.

 

Another question has to be why no-one has yet shot a big foot? You have lots of hunting and plenty of gun carrying individuals, right? So why don't we have an example of a shot big foot?

[WVBIG47]

I assume that Sarmiento knows exactly what a Baboon skull looks like. Thus, I assume that his opinion was that no further investigation needs to be conducted.

 

Another question has to be why no-one has yet shot a big foot? You have lots of hunting and plenty of gun carrying individuals, right? So why don't we have an example of a shot big foot?

All the hunters have said it seems to human to shoot

[Moontanman]

Fossil evidence of Chimpanzees wasn't found until relatively recently. If the Patterson/Gimlin film is real, Bigfoot has a head like a Gorilla. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume it also has a mandible like a Gorilla & therefore if a mandible were found, a skeptic would assume someone was trying to perpetrate a hoax with a Gorilla mandible, since Gorillas are scientifically proven to exist and Bigfoot isn't? A few years ago, a Bigfoot researcher found what appeared to be a Bigfoot skull in Ohio. Dr. Esteban Sarmiento looked at it & ruled it a Babboon skull, without any DNA testing. So how will proper testing ever get done if bones are found?

 

 

The Patterson film is a know fake, it was admitted to by the fakers many years ago, regardless it seems unlikely that the skull would bear any more than a superficial resemblance to a gorilla...

[WVBIG47]

All the hunters have said it seems to human to shoot

Edited September 25, 2013 by WVBIG47

[Endy0816]

A number of hunters and non-hunters are accidentally shot each year. Presumably Bigfoot looks less human than our fellow humans and yet we still shoot them on a regular basis.

 

Best explanation I've ever heard was in one of Jim Butcher's short stories. Magical invisibility, rapid healing, and a ton of intelligence.

 

That would be about what it would take for a breeding population to stay off the radar.

[WVBIG47]

 

 

The Patterson film is a know fake, it was admitted to by the fakers many years ago, regardless it seems unlikely that the skull would bear any more than a superficial resemblance to a gorilla...

No it wasn't. That was a rumor started by a reporter who didn't do his homework. Back in the late 1970's a man named Ray Wallace confessed to hoaxing a lot of tracks out west & became somewhat famous for it. When he died, a local newspaper or tv station sent a reporter to interview his family for a human interest piece. His widow showed him a film he made of her in a Gorilla suit & the reporter assumed it was the famous Patterson/Gimlin film because he thought there was only one video. Work is ongoing on the Patterson/Gimlin film http://www.themunnsreport.com

[Moontanman]

No it wasn't. That was a rumor started by a reporter who didn't do his homework. Back in the late 1970's a man named Ray Wallace confessed to hoaxing a lot of tracks out west & became somewhat famous for it. When he died, a local newspaper or tv station sent a reporter to interview his family for a human interest piece. His widow showed him a film he made of her in a Gorilla suit & the reporter assumed it was the famous Patterson/Gimlin film because he thought there was only one video. Work is ongoing on the Patterson/Gimlin film http://www.themunnsreport.com

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson-Gimlin_film

 

Philip Morris[edit source]

In 2002, Philip Morris of Morris Costumes (a North Carolina-based company offering costumes, props and stage products) claimed that he made a gorilla costume that was used in the Patterson film. Morris says he discussed his role in the hoax privately in the 1980s but first admitted it publicly on August 16, 2002, on Charlotte, North Carolina, radio station WBT-AM.^[50] Morris claims he was reluctant to expose the hoax earlier for fear of harming his business: giving away a performer's secrets, he said, would be widely regarded as disreputable.^[51]

Morris said that he sold an ape suit to Patterson via mail-order in 1967, thinking it was going to be used in what Patterson described as a "prank"^[52] (ordinarily the gorilla suits he sold were used for a popular side-show routine that depicted an attractive woman changing into a gorilla.) After the initial sale, Morris said that Patterson telephoned him asking how to make the "shoulders more massive"^[53] and the "arms longer."^[54] Morris says he suggested that whoever wore the suit should wear wide football-type shoulder pads and hold sticks in his hands within the suit. His story was also printed in The Charlotte Observer.^[55]

As for the creature's walk, Morris said:

The Bigfoot researchers say that no human can walk that way in the film. Oh, yes they can! When you're wearing long clown's feet, you can't place the ball of your foot down first. You have to put your foot down flat. Otherwise, you'll stumble. Another thing, when you put on the gorilla head, you can only turn your head maybe a quarter of the way. And to look behind you, you've got to turn your head and your shoulders and your hips. Plus, the shoulder pads in the suit are in the way of the jaw. That's why the Bigfoot turns and looks the way he does in the film. He has to twist his entire upper body.

[56]

Morris' wife and business partner Amy had vouched for her husband and claims to have helped frame the suit.^[56] Morris offered no evidence apart from testimony to support his account, the most conspicuous shortcoming being the absence of a gorilla suit or documentation that would match the detail evidenced in the film and could have been produced in 1967.

In 2012, Ed Edmunds, the owner of Distortions Unlimited in Greeley, Colorado credited Phil Morris and his wife with "creating" the Bigfoot myth on the TV series, Making Monsters, adding that "Phil got tired of people still believing in Bigfoot that he goes around debunking it." ^[57]

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

Opinions on what? It's a map of bigfoot sightings.

 

The counterargument to bigfoot, et. al, in graphical form: http://xkcd.com/1235/

Clearly Bigfoot is Camera shy, with the lack of extra sightings with the increased carrying of cameras...

 

My main problem with bigfoot is that there are no bigfoot road kills, in the US any animal that exists eventually ends up as road kill, humans even end up as road kill, no bigfoot road kills no bigfoot...

...smart though...avoiding getting killed crossing busy highways...

 

An ecological niche model based on bigfoot sightings overlaps astonishingly well with that of the black bear...

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2699.2009.02152.x/full

...but very friendly, getting along extremely well with black bears if not humans...

 

 

Here is one photographed at a party with my cousin Jim...

 

 

This may contradict what I said earlier about being camera shy but Jim had told him a number of black bears were coming to the party (he actually didn't invite any)

[ajb]

All the hunters have said it seems to human to shoot

Not one hunter could bring himself to shoot one? People shoot apes in other parts of the world with little worry, though they should not do it.

 

Why didn't cousin Jim shoot the one standing right behind him? Easy shot.

 

Now, that said, what would be the legal status of intentionally shooting a big foot? (assuming they exist)

Edited September 26, 2013 by ajb

[J.C.MacSwell]

Not one hunter could bring himself to shoot one? People shoot apes in other parts of the world with little worry, though they should not do it.

 

Why didn't cousin Jim shoot the one standing right behind him? Easy shot.

 

Now, that said, what would be the legal status of intentionally shooting a big foot? (assuming they exist)

Jim is not always honest and a little devious...but not malicious...also doesn't own a gun

[WVBIG47]

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson-Gimlin_film

 

You're so far behind.

A)Morris could offer no proof of his claim. No bill of sale, etc...

B)A book written a few years ago for the purpose of debunking the film, went along with the Morris claim until the last chapter. In the last chapter, it claimed Roger Patterson made the suit out of horse hyde

C)The late Dr. Grover Krantz stated in a documentary & even demonstrated that it was possible for a person to walk that way

It never ceases to amaze me how skeptics reject the film, despite several forms of analyses by several different people, that support its authenticity. But a guy claims he sold the costume to Patterson & skeptics automatically believe him. Even though he has no proof. Bob Heronimous tied his claim of being the guy in the suit, in with the Morris claim. But here's the thing. 1)On the NatGeo program "Is It Real?" Bob Heronimous claimed Patterson offered him $2000 to wear the costume, but never paid him & he kept quiet until the early 1990's. But on an internet radio show about Bigfoot that I listened to, he claimed Patterson offered him $1000 & when he came back into town after filming, he stopped off at a local bar & showed the suit to everyone in the bar. 2)When he offered to take people to the film location, he couldn't even find it.

Did you even look at http://themunnsreport.com ?

 

 

[arc]

Actually the number of sightings indicate they are much more rare than other animals & are most often seen in remote areas

 

The entire folklore of Bigfoot in my area, that is the N.W. U.S., is framed by a solitary individual roaming the mountains of the Coast and Cascade ranges and even extending eastward into the Rockies. So far this behavior resembles, as already mentioned by Arete, that of the black bear. What would a large primate living in the same environment as a black bear be required to do to survive these harsh winter environments. Historic Native American tribes give evidence that to survive the coldest winter conditions in these areas require a communal society working together for food and shelter. Often needing to move frequently to locate game and shelter in milder climes.

 

The bears survival is dependent on being spread out enough to limit its competition with other bears for the resources needed to fatten up during the summer in preparation for a long harsh winter of little sustenance. The harshness of these winters on the bears is validated in that hibernation is essential to their survival.

 

It would then seem almost a requirement that a large ape would need to hibernate through the winter in these extreme environs. This would require shelter similar to that of the bears. A dugout earthen cave with a small opening, its sleeping area lined with foliage. A large cave opening would not suffice in these cold alpine winters of below freezing temperatures. And would this creature also store food for the winter like a squirrel? This is the crux of the matter, where are these domiciles, these winter quarters that would contain hair and DNA, possibly even bones of a death from natural causes.