Bigfoot

[Moontanman]

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson-Gimlin_film

 

You're so far behind.

A)Morris could offer no proof of his claim. No bill of sale, etc...

B)A book written a few years ago for the purpose of debunking the film, went along with the Morris claim until the last chapter. In the last chapter, it claimed Roger Patterson made the suit out of horse hyde

C)The late Dr. Grover Krantz stated in a documentary & even demonstrated that it was possible for a person to walk that way

It never ceases to amaze me how skeptics reject the film, despite several forms of analyses by several different people, that support its authenticity. But a guy claims he sold the costume to Patterson & skeptics automatically believe him. Even though he has no proof. Bob Heronimous tied his claim of being the guy in the suit, in with the Morris claim. But here's the thing. 1)On the NatGeo program "Is It Real?" Bob Heronimous claimed Patterson offered him $2000 to wear the costume, but never paid him & he kept quiet until the early 1990's. But on an internet radio show about Bigfoot that I listened to, he claimed Patterson offered him $1000 & when he came back into town after filming, he stopped off at a local bar & showed the suit to everyone in the bar. 2)When he offered to take people to the film location, he couldn't even find it.

Did you even look at http://themunnsreport.com ?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes i read it, it's obviously agenda driven, would you expect a sales receipt 30 or 40 some odd years after the fact? The most reasonable explanation is a hoax, you have the source of the costume, the fact that the guy who filmed it told his witness not to shoot a bigfoot "if" they found one, then they coincidentally find one on their first try... it stinks of hoax to me, my BS meter is pegged to the max...

[WVBIG47]

 

The entire folklore of Bigfoot in my area, that is the N.W. U.S., is framed by a solitary individual roaming the mountains of the Coast and Cascade ranges and even extending eastward into the Rockies. So far this behavior resembles, as already mentioned by Arete, that of the black bear. What would a large primate living in the same environment as a black bear be required to do to survive these harsh winter environments. Historic Native American tribes give evidence that to survive the coldest winter conditions in these areas require a communal society working together for food and shelter. Often needing to move frequently to locate game and shelter in milder climes.

 

The bears survival is dependent on being spread out enough to limit its competition with other bears for the resources needed to fatten up during the summer in preparation for a long harsh winter of little sustenance. The harshness of these winters on the bears is validated in that hibernation is essential to their survival.

 

It would then seem almost a requirement that a large ape would need to hibernate through the winter in these extreme environs. This would require shelter similar to that of the bears. A dugout earthen cave with a small opening, its sleeping area lined with foliage. A large cave opening would not suffice in these cold alpine winters of below freezing temperatures. And would this creature also store food for the winter like a squirrel? This is the crux of the matter, where are these domiciles, these winter quarters that would contain hair and DNA, possibly even bones of a death from natural causes.

1) Black bears don't really hibernate. At least not to the degree other bears do. That's common knowledge to bear hunters. A few years ago, a friend of mine posted a pic of a fresh bear track in her front yard in snow. 2)Black bears don't spread out much. There are at least 8 different black bears in the immediare vicinity of my neighborhood. A neighbor took pics of a sow (with brown on her muzzle) & four tiny cubs this summer. Last summer, I saw a sow & two cubs cross the road. All were totally black.

Bighfoots have long been thought to be semi-nomadic. Following food supplies. There are reports of them being seen eating various types of things. Fish, small rodents, berries, digging for grubs, etc...However, there are beginning to be more & more reports of them staying in areas for an extended period of time. I never gave these reports any credit until they started coming from a very well respected, Christian lady who was a nurse & a missionary. suspect this is happening because available wilderness areas are shrinking

 

 

Yes i read it, it's obviously agenda driven, would you expect a sales receipt 30 or 40 some odd years after the fact? The most reasonable explanation is a hoax, you have the source of the costume, the fact that the guy who filmed it told his witness not to shoot a bigfoot "if" they found one, then they coincidentally find one on their first try... it stinks of hoax to me, my BS meter is pegged to the max...

First try? LOL! Roger Patterson had been investigating reports for 8 years. Where is the suit now? There are hefty rewards for the suit & for proof the film is a hoax. Both rewards are over 30 years old & unclaimed

[arc]

1) Black bears don't really hibernate. At least not to the degree other bears do. That's common knowledge to bear hunters. A few years ago, a friend of mine posted a pic of a fresh bear track in her front yard in snow. 2)Black bears don't spread out much. There are at least 8 different black bears in the immediare vicinity of my neighborhood. A neighbor took pics of a sow (with brown on her muzzle) & four tiny cubs this summer. Last summer, I saw a sow & two cubs cross the road. All were totally black.

Bighfoots have long been thought to be semi-nomadic. Following food supplies. There are reports of them being seen eating various types of things. Fish, small rodents, berries, digging for grubs, etc...However, there are beginning to be more & more reports of them staying in areas for an extended period of time. I never gave these reports any credit until they started coming from a very well respected, Christian lady who was a nurse & a missionary. suspect this is happening because available wilderness areas are shrinking

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_black_bear

 

Black bears were once not considered true or "deep" hibernators, but because of discoveries about the metabolic changes that allow black bears to remain dormant for months without eating, drinking, urinating, or defecating, most biologists have redefined mammalian hibernation as "specialized, seasonal reduction in metabolism concurrent with scarce food and cold weather". Black bears are now considered highly efficient hibernators.[58][59]

Black bears enter their dens in October and November. Prior to that time, they can put on up to 30 pounds of body fat to get them through the seven months during which they fast. Hibernation in black bears typically lasts 3–5 months.[15] During this time, their heart rate drops from 40–50 beats per minute to 8 beats per minute. They spend their time in hollowed-out dens in tree cavities, under logs or rocks, in banks, caves, or culverts, and in shallow depressions. Females, however, have been shown to be pickier in their choice of dens, in comparison to males.[60] Although naturally-made dens are occasionally used, most dens are dug out by the bear itself.[53] A special hormone, leptin is released into the black bear's systems, to suppress appetite. Because they do not urinate or defecate during dormancy, the nitrogen waste from the bear's body is biochemically recycled back into their proteins. This also serves the purpose of preventing muscle loss, as the process uses the waste products to build muscle during the long periods of inactivity. In comparison to true hibernators, their body temperature does not drop significantly (staying around 35 degrees Celsius) and they remain somewhat alert and active. If the winter is mild enough, they may wake up and forage for food. Females also give birth in February and nurture their cubs until the snow melts.[61] During winter, black bears consume 25–40% of their body weight.

 

The bears that you and your friend see are becoming typical due to people's reluctance to kill them out their back doors as was the case up to 20 - 30 years ago. These bears no longer fear humans. They have moved down to populated areas for foraging garbage. The bears that habitat high elevations in cold climes do hibernate. These are the same locations always claimed as habitat for Bigfoot, high rugged mountainous areas with heavy winter snow accumulation. This has always been the excuse by Bigfoot believers, that they are in these remote areas, living their lives unseen which it seems would require some type of winter accommodations. Unless you think their down in the suburbs now, digging in peoples garbage cans.

[WVBIG47]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_black_bear

 

Black bears were once not considered true or "deep" hibernators, but because of discoveries about the metabolic changes that allow black bears to remain dormant for months without eating, drinking, urinating, or defecating, most biologists have redefined mammalian hibernation as "specialized, seasonal reduction in metabolism concurrent with scarce food and cold weather". Black bears are now considered highly efficient hibernators.[58][59]

Black bears enter their dens in October and November. Prior to that time, they can put on up to 30 pounds of body fat to get them through the seven months during which they fast. Hibernation in black bears typically lasts 3–5 months.[15] During this time, their heart rate drops from 40–50 beats per minute to 8 beats per minute. They spend their time in hollowed-out dens in tree cavities, under logs or rocks, in banks, caves, or culverts, and in shallow depressions. Females, however, have been shown to be pickier in their choice of dens, in comparison to males.[60] Although naturally-made dens are occasionally used, most dens are dug out by the bear itself.[53] A special hormone, leptin is released into the black bear's systems, to suppress appetite. Because they do not urinate or defecate during dormancy, the nitrogen waste from the bear's body is biochemically recycled back into their proteins. This also serves the purpose of preventing muscle loss, as the process uses the waste products to build muscle during the long periods of inactivity. In comparison to true hibernators, their body temperature does not drop significantly (staying around 35 degrees Celsius) and they remain somewhat alert and active. If the winter is mild enough, they may wake up and forage for food. Females also give birth in February and nurture their cubs until the snow melts.[61] During winter, black bears consume 25–40% of their body weight.

 

The bears that you and your friend see are becoming typical due to people's reluctance to kill them out their back doors as was the case up to 20 - 30 years ago. These bears no longer fear humans. They have moved down to populated areas for foraging garbage. The bears that habitat high elevations in cold climes do hibernate. These are the same locations always claimed as habitat for Bigfoot, high rugged mountainous areas with heavy winter snow accumulation. This has always been the excuse by Bigfoot believers, that they are in these remote areas, living their lives unseen which it seems would require some type of winter accommodations. Unless you think their down in the suburbs now, digging in peoples garbage cans.

They seem to be seen a lot more in fall & spring than any other time. I think in the fall, they are gathering food for winter & I think they stick to pine forests in winter. A lot of sightings are in or near pine forests

[Moontanman]

They seem to be seen a lot more in fall & spring than any other time. I think in the fall, they are gathering food for winter & I think they stick to pine forests in winter. A lot of sightings are in or near pine forests

 

 

What do they eat in pine forests in the dead of winter?

[imatfaal]

 

 

What do they eat in pine forests in the dead of winter?

 

Oh - that's easy, the black bears eat the sasquatch

[Unity+]

That is really besides the point, even very rare animals show up as road kill, I live in an area where pygmy rattle snakes are supposed to be non existent but I have found three in the past 10 years as road kill. If they are as wide spread as claimed they must cross roads occasionally, in fact they have been reported crossing roads, highways, even interstates, you would expect to see "bigfeet" dead on the road at least occasionally...

That would really depend. Maybe bigfoot is some how more intelligent than most animals that exist to become road kill.

 

To question the existence of bigfoot, there would have to be evidence that it was a part of the evolutionary chain. If not, then the possibility of BigFoot is 1/100000000000000000000000000000000.

[WVBIG47]

 

 

What do they eat in pine forests in the dead of winter?

Pine seeds & all the other animals that also seek shelter from the harsh weather

[Moontanman]

Pine seeds & all the other animals that also seek shelter from the harsh weather

 

 

There is a reason why bears hibernate, and it not because they don't like the cold... food is very hard to find in the winter.

Pine seeds? Really? Even squirrels can't live off them in the winter...

[WVBIG47]

 

 

There is a reason why bears hibernate, and it not because they don't like the cold... food is very hard to find in the winter.

Pine seeds? Really? Even squirrels can't live off them in the winter...

Did you read where I said I believe they are seen a lot in the fall because they are gathering food? Pine seeds are very high in protein & fat. Black bears don't hibernate per se. Why should Bigfoot need to, to any greater degree? Bear season is in winter by the way. Kind of a dumb time to have it if they're all holed up in dens all winter long, wouldn't you say?

[Moontanman]

Ok, if you are not going to pay attention to what we are posting I see no reason to continue this. Please read post #28, not all pine trees have edible nuts, most are not big enough for anything but rodents to eat them if that.

 

Having no fossil evidence what so ever or bones or road kills or any trace of such a large animal really makes it difficult to justify thinking they are real. If I saw one i would shoot it, yes, kill it for the protection of the species, once we know it's real they can be protected...

[WVBIG47]

West Virginia Black Bear hunting seasons for 2013:http://www.wvdnr.gov/Hunting/Regs1314/Season_dates.pdf Again, fossil evidence of chimps was only discovered relatively recently. Right? Bigfoots are often reportedly seen at high altitudes in rugged, remote areas. Not much chance of getting hit by a car in those areas. What roads there are, are too bad to travel at highway speeds

[Moontanman]

West Virginia Black Bear hunting seasons for 2013:http://www.wvdnr.gov/Hunting/Regs1314/Season_dates.pdf Again, fossil evidence of chimps was only discovered relatively recently. Right? Bigfoots are often reportedly seen at high altitudes in rugged, remote areas. Not much chance of getting hit by a car in those areas. What roads there are, are too bad to travel at highway speeds

West Virginia is hardly the same environment as the High Rockies. As far as i know bigfoot isn't found in WV, I grew up there, in the sticks, I know of no one who is knowledgeable and experienced in hunting who claimed it so. I once asked my grandfather about bigfoot, he laughed, he had spent most of his life hunting to eat not for sport, he said he had never seen anything in the wild that would suggest such a thing.

 

The ledgend of bigfoot is where bigfoot comes from, not reality...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot

 

History

 

Before 1958

Wildmen stories are found among the indigenous population of the Pacific Northwest. The legends existed prior to a single name for the creature.[16] They differed in their details both regionally and between families in the same community. Similar stories of wildmen are found on every continent except Antarctica.[16] Ecologist Robert Michael Pyle argues that most cultures have human-like giants in their folk history: "We have this need for some larger-than-life creature."[17]

Members of the Lummi tell tales about Ts'emekwes, the local version of Bigfoot. The stories are similar to each other in terms of the general descriptions of Ts'emekwes, but details about the creature's diet and activities differed between the stories of different families.[18]

Some regional versions contained more nefarious creatures. The stiyaha or kwi-kwiyai were a nocturnal race that children were told not to say the names of lest the monsters hear and come to carry off a personsometimes to be killed.[19] In 1847, Paul Kane reported stories by the native people about skoocooms: a race of cannibalistic wild men living on the peak of Mount St. Helens.[13] The skoocooms appear to have been regarded as supernatural, rather than natural.[13]

Less menacing versions such as the one recorded by Reverend Elkanah Walker exist. In 1840, Walker, a Protestant missionary, recorded stories of giants among the Native Americans living in Spokane, Washington. The Indians claimed that these giants lived on and around the peaks of nearby mountains and stole salmon from the fishermen's nets.[20]

Various local legends were compiled by J. W. Burns in a series of Canadian newspaper articles in the 1920s. Each language had its own name for the local version. Many names meant something along the lines of "wild man" or "hairy man" although other names described common actions it was said to perform (e.g. eating clams).[21] Burns coined the term Sasquatch, which is from the Halkomelem sásqets (IPA: [ˈsæsqʼəts]),[2] and used it in his articles to describe a hypothetical single type of creature reflected in these various stories.[13][21][22] Burns's articles popularized both the legend and its new name, making it well known in western Canada before it gained popularity in the United States.[23]

Locals had been calling the unseen track-maker "Big Foot" since the late summer, which [/size]Humboldt Times columnist Andrew Genzoli shortened to "Bigfoot" in his article.[/size]^%5B24%5D Bigfoot gained international attention when the story was picked up by the [/size]Associated Press.[/size]^{%5B13%5D%5B25%5D} Following the death of [/size]Ray Wallace a local logger his family attributed the creation of the footprints to him.[/size]^%5B5%5D The wife of L.W. Scoop Beal, the editor of the [/size]Humboldt Standard, which later combined with the [/size]Humboldt Times, in which Genzoli's story had appeared,[/size]^%5B26%5D has stated that her husband was in on the hoax with Wallace.[/size]^%5B27%5D

When ever you try to track down the origin of bigfoot claims they lead to admitted hoaxes.

[arc]

Bigfoots are often reportedly seen at high altitudes in rugged, remote areas. Not much chance of getting hit by a car in those areas. What roads there are, are too bad to travel at highway speeds

 

As I already posted;

 

The bears that you and your friend see are becoming typical due to people's reluctance to kill them out their back doors as was the case up to 20 - 30 years ago. These bears no longer fear humans. They have moved down to populated areas for foraging garbage. The bears that habitat high elevations in cold climes do hibernate. These are the same locations always claimed as habitat for Bigfoot, high rugged mountainous areas with heavy winter snow accumulation. This has always been the excuse by Bigfoot believers, that they are in these remote areas, living their lives unseen which it seems would require some type of winter accommodations. Unless you think their down in the suburbs now, digging in peoples garbage cans.

 

So now once again, where are these winter dens needed to survive these cold below freezing environs.

 

 

The entire folklore of Bigfoot in my area, that is the N.W. U.S., is framed by a solitary individual roaming the mountains of the Coast and Cascade ranges and even extending eastward into the Rockies. So far this behavior resembles, as already mentioned by Arete, that of the black bear. What would a large primate living in the same environment as a black bear be required to do to survive these harsh winter environments. Historic Native American tribes give evidence that to survive the coldest winter conditions in these areas require a communal society working together for food and shelter. Often needing to move frequently to locate game and shelter in milder climes.

 

The bears survival is dependent on being spread out enough to limit its competition with other bears for the resources needed to fatten up during the summer in preparation for a long harsh winter of little sustenance. The harshness of these winters on the bears is validated in that hibernation is essential to their survival.

 

It would then seem almost a requirement that a large ape would need to hibernate through the winter in these extreme environs. This would require shelter similar to that of the bears. A dugout earthen cave with a small opening, its sleeping area lined with foliage. A large cave opening would not suffice in these cold alpine winters of below freezing temperatures. And would this creature also store food for the winter like a squirrel? This is the crux of the matter, where are these domiciles, these winter quarters that would contain hair and DNA, possibly even bones of a death from natural causes.

 

 

Bigfoots are often reportedly seen at high altitudes in rugged, remote areas. Not much chance of getting hit by a car in those areas. What roads there are, are too bad to travel at highway speeds

 

You have a serious disconnect to reality with this line of thought. The winter temperatures in the Cascades alone can kill in a matter of hours or so during heavy snow storms with deadly wind chill temps, and then temperatures continue to remain well below freezing during clear weather. Are you suggesting they have a cold weather metabolism that would produce body heat at survivable levels while active during winter periods of seasonally mandated low calorie intake? Hibernation would seem to be mandatory for survival, so where are the thousands of dens used over the last 10,000 + years that would contain evidence of these creatures? You are proposing a truly mystical creature, wouldn't you agree?

Edited September 29, 2013 by arc

[WVBIG47]

I'm suggesting that

1)Possibly their hair acts like insulation, as with some dogs

2)Possibly they go elsewhere when it's really bitter cold, if need be. There are lots of Coniferous trees there. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of Coniferous trees as shelter from cold & wind

3)Lava tubes have been proposed as possible shelters for Bigfoot

This is sort of related. It goes to show sometimes science is wrong about a species being extinct. Not a Coelacanth or an Ivory-billed Woodpecker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DLL0ELg-y8&feature=share

[Moontanman]

I'm suggesting that

1)Possibly their hair acts like insulation, as with some dogs

2)Possibly they go elsewhere when it's really bitter cold, if need be. There are lots of Coniferous trees there. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of Coniferous trees as shelter from cold & wind

3)Lava tubes have been proposed as possible shelters for Bigfoot

This is sort of related. It goes to show sometimes science is wrong about a species being extinct. Not a Coelacanth or an Ivory-billed Woodpecker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DLL0ELg-y8&feature=share

 

 

What species is bigfoot? I understand what you mean, but those were species we knew existed at one time, well in actual fact the coelacanth doesn't count because it is not the same species found in fossils but in fact is just a member of the family of lobe finned fishes. But I understand the principle of what you are saying, we knew ivory billed woodpeckers existed, what is bigfoot exactly?

Edited September 30, 2013 by Moontanman

[arc]

I'm suggesting that

1)Possibly their hair acts like insulation, as with some dogs

 

But dogs, as in wolves in the cold winter environs need to acquire sufficient amounts of meat to maintain their metabolisms. To do this they hunt in pacts to run down larger game or more often to separate the young and/or weak from the heard. To be this active in sub freezing temperatures requires substantial food energy.

 

From the physical descriptions of a Bigfoot the ape would be required because of it's size to consume a substantial amount. The availability of this large amount of food would seem unlikely in areas that routinely accumulate deep snow. This is why bears hibernate. If you claim they live at these elevations they would need to hibernate in dens.

 

 

 

2)Possibly they go elsewhere when it's really bitter cold, if need be. There are lots of Coniferous trees there. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of Coniferous trees as shelter from cold & wind

 

This would require moving great distances down to lower elevations away from deep snow and freezing temps to areas of rain and still bitter cold temperatures. It rains a lot in the N.W. U.S., all winter long. This is not the ideal conditions for foraging for food. Deer and elk move down to where they can feed and can be routinely seen and photographed.

 

Changing habitats would increase the likelihood of being seen and filmed. There are many bow and rifle hunters in this area who now routinely carry cameras but never capture one shot of a Bigfoot even though wind and dampening rain can help abate noise and scent.

 

 

3)Lava tubes have been proposed as possible shelters for Bigfoot

 

Again, these are and have been a very studied and explored geologic feature. They should have produced signs of these creatures. There should be at least some sign that in the last 10,000 years there was habitation in more than a few of the explored tubes. Dried feces should be a obvious sign.

 

Although this is about human examples you will not need to extrapolate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleofaeces

 

Paleofeces (UK: Palaeofaeces) are ancient human feces, often found as part of archaeological excavations or surveys. Intact feces of ancient people may be found in caves in arid climates and in certain other locations. They are studied to determine the diet and health of the people who produced them through the analysis of seeds, small bones, and parasite eggs found inside. The feces can contain information about the person excreting the material as well as information about the material itself. They can also be chemically analyzed for more in-depth information on the individual who excreted them. The success rate of usable DNA extraction is very high in paleofeces, making it more reliable than skeletal DNA retrieval.

 

 

This is sort of related. It goes to show sometimes science is wrong about a species being extinct. Not a Coelacanth or an Ivory-billed Woodpecker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DLL0ELg-y8&feature=share

 

A species must first have existed before it can be considered extinct. You have a long way to go for either.

[WVBIG47]

 

 

What species is bigfoot? I understand what you mean, but those were species we knew existed at one time, well in actual fact the coelacanth doesn't count because it is not the same species found in fossils but in fact is just a member of the family of lobe finned fishes. But I understand the principle of what you are saying, we knew ivory billed woodpeckers existed, what is bigfoot exactly?

The link is to a 2012 video of a Thylacine. A very clear one. Bigfoot is a primate. Possibly ape. Possibly primative human

 

But dogs, as in wolves in the cold winter environs need to acquire sufficient amounts of meat to maintain their metabolisms. To do this they hunt in pacts to run down larger game or more often to separate the young and/or weak from the heard. To be this active in sub freezing temperatures requires substantial food energy.

 

From the physical descriptions of a Bigfoot the ape would be required because of it's size to consume a substantial amount. The availability of this large amount of food would seem unlikely in areas that routinely accumulate deep snow. This is why bears hibernate. If you claim they live at these elevations they would need to hibernate in dens.

 

 

 

This would require moving great distances down to lower elevations away from deep snow and freezing temps to areas of rain and still bitter cold temperatures. It rains a lot in the N.W. U.S., all winter long. This is not the ideal conditions for foraging for food. Deer and elk move down to where they can feed and can be routinely seen and photographed.

 

Changing habitats would increase the likelihood of being seen and filmed. There are many bow and rifle hunters in this area who now routinely carry cameras but never capture one shot of a Bigfoot even though wind and dampening rain can help abate noise and scent.

 

 

 

Again, these are and have been a very studied and explored geologic feature. They should have produced signs of these creatures. There should be at least some sign that in the last 10,000 years there was habitation in more than a few of the explored tubes. Dried feces should be a obvious sign.

 

Although this is about human examples you will not need to extrapolate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleofaeces

 

Paleofeces (UK: Palaeofaeces) are ancient human feces, often found as part of archaeological excavations or surveys. Intact feces of ancient people may be found in caves in arid climates and in certain other locations. They are studied to determine the diet and health of the people who produced them through the analysis of seeds, small bones, and parasite eggs found inside. The feces can contain information about the person excreting the material as well as information about the material itself. They can also be chemically analyzed for more in-depth information on the individual who excreted them. The success rate of usable DNA extraction is very high in paleofeces, making it more reliable than skeletal DNA retrieval.

 

 

A species must first have existed before it can be considered extinct. You have a long way to go for either.

The point is, science has believed Thylacines to be extinct since 1936 & longer than that in the wild. Much longer than there has been active research into the Bigfoot phenomenon

 

But dogs, as in wolves in the cold winter environs need to acquire sufficient amounts of meat to maintain their metabolisms. To do this they hunt in pacts to run down larger game or more often to separate the young and/or weak from the heard. To be this active in sub freezing temperatures requires substantial food energy.

 

From the physical descriptions of a Bigfoot the ape would be required because of it's size to consume a substantial amount. The availability of this large amount of food would seem unlikely in areas that routinely accumulate deep snow. This is why bears hibernate. If you claim they live at these elevations they would need to hibernate in dens.

 

 

 

This would require moving great distances down to lower elevations away from deep snow and freezing temps to areas of rain and still bitter cold temperatures. It rains a lot in the N.W. U.S., all winter long. This is not the ideal conditions for foraging for food. Deer and elk move down to where they can feed and can be routinely seen and photographed.

 

Changing habitats would increase the likelihood of being seen and filmed. There are many bow and rifle hunters in this area who now routinely carry cameras but never capture one shot of a Bigfoot even though wind and dampening rain can help abate noise and scent.

 

 

 

Again, these are and have been a very studied and explored geologic feature. They should have produced signs of these creatures. There should be at least some sign that in the last 10,000 years there was habitation in more than a few of the explored tubes. Dried feces should be a obvious sign.

 

Although this is about human examples you will not need to extrapolate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleofaeces

 

Paleofeces (UK: Palaeofaeces) are ancient human feces, often found as part of archaeological excavations or surveys. Intact feces of ancient people may be found in caves in arid climates and in certain other locations. They are studied to determine the diet and health of the people who produced them through the analysis of seeds, small bones, and parasite eggs found inside. The feces can contain information about the person excreting the material as well as information about the material itself. They can also be chemically analyzed for more in-depth information on the individual who excreted them. The success rate of usable DNA extraction is very high in paleofeces, making it more reliable than skeletal DNA retrieval.

 

 

A species must first have existed before it can be considered extinct. You have a long way to go for either.

Maybe if more actual scientists were investigating the phenomenon, more evidence would have been found. A few weeks ago, a Bigfoot researcher posted on Facebook to find a DNA lab to get hair samples tested. He has the money to pay, but can't find a lab that wants anything to do with possible Bigfoot hair samples. I believe this is further evidence of an anti-bigfoot bias by the mainstream scientific community

Edited September 30, 2013 by WVBIG47

[Arete]

We have type specimens collected during modern historical time and formal descriptions of the Ivory-billed woodpecker and the thylacine.

 

The neanderthal type specimen is a sub-fossil bone fragment found in a cave and dated to 40,000 years ago. http://www.pnas.org/content/99/20/13342.full

 

Comparing the rediscovery of a species thought to have gone extinct in the recent past as leading to the plausibility of a prehistoric creature existing is really an apples to oranges comparison.

 

I don't buy the "remoteness" of the pacific northwest as explaining the lack of a specimen either - we have types from deep ocean hydrothermic vents http://decapoda.nhm.org/pdfs/32468/32468.pdf, from underwater caves in Vietnam http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50039897/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/eww-eyeless-scaleless-cave-fish-discovered-vietnam/#.Ukma_hCc7zA and under ice lakes in Antarctica http://news.discovery.com/earth/life-found-in-antarctic-lake-130911.htm

 

Also, being "secretive in the mountains" also doesn't cut it - take snow lepoards for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_leopard Extremely rare, intelligent and secretive, living in far more remote places than Oregon. Likely fewer film crews and "experts" running around looking for them - yet we have multiple specimens, clear footage, examples in zoos, etc.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Arete

[WVBIG47]

But all of those are discoveries by actual scientists with funding for proper equipment & the skill to use it properly. We are mostly amateurs with poor equipment & little time to research. As I stated before, one researcher posted on Facebook to see if anyone could suggest a DNA lab for him to take hair samples to. Money isn't a problem. He can't get a lab to test possible Bigfoot hair samples

[Moontanman]

But all of those are discoveries by actual scientists with funding for proper equipment & the skill to use it properly. We are mostly amateurs with poor equipment & little time to research. As I stated before, one researcher posted on Facebook to see if anyone could suggest a DNA lab for him to take hair samples to. Money isn't a problem. He can't get a lab to test possible Bigfoot hair samples

 

 

Actual scientists have looked at the evidence for bigfoot, none have been impressed... I suggest the next time "we" see one "we" shoot it and bring it's body back...

[J.C.MacSwell]

 

 

Actual scientists have looked at the evidence for bigfoot, none have been impressed... I suggest the next time "we" see one "we" shoot it and bring it's body back...

If you love something set it free, if it loves you it will come back, if it does not...hunt it down and kill it

[arc]

 

I suggest the next time "we" see one "we" shoot it and bring it's body back...

 

 

The way humans have always valued the hides, feathers, skulls, tusks, bones, teeth and claws of those animals they find "inspiring" it would seem likely that someone would have beat you to that. Picking up a memento from a cave or completely going full on and taking the trophy "on the hoof".

Edited October 1, 2013 by arc

[Arete]

But all of those are discoveries by actual scientists with funding for proper equipment & the skill to use it properly. We are mostly amateurs with poor equipment & little time to research.

 

Again, I don't buy it at all. Plenty of bird species are discovered by amateur ornithologists:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060912-new-bird.html

 

Plenty of butterflies discovered by amateur entomologists:

http://www.amentsoc.org/publications/bulletin/articles.html

etc.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Arete

[WVBIG47]

Photographs are good enough for birds, but not Bigfoot? Interesting....