An Unconventional Deity

[WWLabRat]

This is inspired by a post made in the Theistic Scientists thread.

 

There's been many threads in this forum that, although unique in their beginning, eventually devolve to a battle between factions of those wanting to debate for the existence of God/god/deity and those in opposition. This has caused a great degradation in the quality and continuity of intellectual debates. Many times these debates over the existence of god cause members to be banned (whether permanently or temporary) or cause the thread to be locked by the moderators. These debates generally come down to the lack of physical evidence of any such deity (to say nothing of mythical creatures). But in this regard is where I make my stand. Everyone debates about the conventional deities: the God of Abrahamic religions, the polytheistic gods and goddesses of pagan religions, and the gods of Eastern religions. What I propose is a more "universal" deity. It's something that nearly everyone, including Atheists, "worship" on a daily basis. I say that in modern day we all worship the same god: The Almighty Dollar. Bear in mind that in this context I mean Dollar to be any currency.

 

I argue that Dollar is a god for many reasons. Majority of today's societies center around commerce and the global buying and selling of products. People work their entire lives to gain more money (knowing god) in order to buy things they believe will make them happy (reward for worship). Wars have been fought over resources that are valuable only because we use currency. Most people would agree that the world couldn't function as it does now without the continued use of some sort of financial exchange between people, companies, and countries. Third world countries could be seen as those that don't have a stable currency or don't know our "god" and so missions and collections are taken up through charity to help "spread the word of god". Companies (churches/temples) take the money from its customers (parishioners) to both pay for their needs and to recruit more followers. These employees are the clergy, the money they spend to buy resources are their sacrifice. They sacrifice so that they may gain more followers to help them attain more money (or faith) to be able to greater know Dollar.

 

Unlike conventional gods, The Almighty Dollar is a universal deity. Every society has its currency which shares parallels with other societies. And with the exception of a few groups of people (the unsaved) it is used everywhere. Even among those who are supposed to be detached from consumerism, such as the Amish, still use currency and trade in commerce. The Amish use money to purchase land, sell their overstock, and purchase feed for their livestock. And just like big business, they try to improve their product to better satisfy their customers which in turn will cause them to continue their devotion.

[iNow]

I don't think we worship money, but we instead use it as a tool to aid in our survival and happiness. Perhaps it might be more accurate to call it a religion instead of a deity?

 

Also, if it weren't money we'd still trade other things... Spears, arrow heads, pottery, meat, fruits, nuts, animal skins, even services like assistance in tilling the land, fending off invaders, as well as sex.

 

None of those other things are a deity, are they? They are, however, essentially the same as money.

 

I think perhaps instead you are lamenting against what we as a culture choose to value. Instead of valuing clean air, we value corporate profits. Instead of valuing good health, we value convenience and comfort.

 

If anything, I feel that our approach to money has parallels with religion, but that your core issue seems to be with what we tend to value as a society... Access to copious amounts of currency instead of happiness and well-being and family, for example. It's about ritual, and I think you may be arguing for alternative rituals, not alternative gods.

 

 

 

In Purity and Danger, the anthropologist Mary Douglas wrote:

 

"Money mediates transactions; ritual mediates experience, including social experience. Money provides a standard for evaluating worth; ritual standardises situations, and so helps to evaluate them. Money makes a link between the present and the future, so does ritual. The more we reflect on the richness of the metaphor, the more it becomes clear that this is no metaphor. Money is only an extreme and specialised type of ritual."

[arc]

This is inspired by a post made in the Theistic Scientists thread.

 

There's been many threads in this forum that, although unique in their beginning, eventually devolve to a battle between factions of those wanting to debate for the existence of God/god/deity and those in opposition. This has caused a great degradation in the quality and continuity of intellectual debates. Many times these debates over the existence of god cause members to be banned (whether permanently or temporary) or cause the thread to be locked by the moderators. These debates generally come down to the lack of physical evidence of any such deity (to say nothing of mythical creatures). But in this regard is where I make my stand. Everyone debates about the conventional deities: the God of Abrahamic religions, the polytheistic gods and goddesses of pagan religions, and the gods of Eastern religions. What I propose is a more "universal" deity. It's something that nearly everyone, including Atheists, "worship" on a daily basis. I say that in modern day we all worship the same god: The Almighty Dollar. Bear in mind that in this context I mean Dollar to be any currency.

 

I argue that Dollar is a god for many reasons. Majority of today's societies center around commerce and the global buying and selling of products. People work their entire lives to gain more money (knowing god) in order to buy things they believe will make them happy (reward for worship). Wars have been fought over resources that are valuable only because we use currency. Most people would agree that the world couldn't function as it does now without the continued use of some sort of financial exchange between people, companies, and countries. Third world countries could be seen as those that don't have a stable currency or don't know our "god" and so missions and collections are taken up through charity to help "spread the word of god". Companies (churches/temples) take the money from its customers (parishioners) to both pay for their needs and to recruit more followers. These employees are the clergy, the money they spend to buy resources are their sacrifice. They sacrifice so that they may gain more followers to help them attain more money (or faith) to be able to greater know Dollar.

 

Unlike conventional gods, The Almighty Dollar is a universal deity. Every society has its currency which shares parallels with other societies. And with the exception of a few groups of people (the unsaved) it is used everywhere. Even among those who are supposed to be detached from consumerism, such as the Amish, still use currency and trade in commerce. The Amish use money to purchase land, sell their overstock, and purchase feed for their livestock. And just like big business, they try to improve their product to better satisfy their customers which in turn will cause them to continue their devotion.

 

Are you sure this is a true religious practice? Or is it a common construct based on our evolutionary journey as a social animal? To simply use money is just the decision to join a group behavior for personal gain. A primary behavior of humans throughout our history. It may be more utilitarian than say a formal ceremonial and cultural behavior like deity worship or marriage but none the less is motivated by social acceptance and by that personal gain. Money is power in the same way as marrying into upward social mobility.

[WWLabRat]

I don't think we worship money, but we instead use it as a tool to aid in our survival and happiness. Perhaps it might be more accurate to call it a religion instead of a deity?

 

Also, if it weren't money we'd still trade other things... Spears, arrow heads, pottery, meat, fruits, nuts, animal skins, even services like assistance in tilling the land, fending off invaders, as well as sex.

 

None of those other things are a deity, are they? They are, however, essentially the same as money.

 

I think perhaps instead you are lamenting against what we as a culture choose to value. Instead of valuing clean air, we value corporate profits. Instead of valuing good health, we value convenience and comfort.

 

If anything, I feel that our approach to money has parallels with religion, but that your core issue seems to be with what we tend to value as a society... Access to copious amounts of currency instead of happiness and well-being and family, for example. It's about ritual, and I think you may be arguing for alternative rituals, not alternative gods.

 

 

 

In Purity and Danger, the anthropologist Mary Douglas wrote:

 

"Money mediates transactions; ritual mediates experience, including social experience. Money provides a standard for evaluating worth; ritual standardises situations, and so helps to evaluate them. Money makes a link between the present and the future, so does ritual. The more we reflect on the richness of the metaphor, the more it becomes clear that this is no metaphor. Money is only an extreme and specialised type of ritual."

 

 

 

Are you sure this is a true religious practice? Or is it a common construct based on our evolutionary journey as a social animal? To simply use money is just the decision to join a group behavior for personal gain. A primary behavior of humans throughout our history. It may be more utilitarian than say a formal ceremonial and cultural behavior like deity worship or marriage but none the less is motivated by social acceptance and by that personal gain. Money is power in the same way as marrying into upward social mobility.

 

Perhaps... But at the same time, one doesn't worship a religion, they worship whatever it is at the religion's core. In most cases this is a deity. A more accurate way to say it then, in my opinion, would be that the religion is commerce and it's deity is the Almighty Dollar.

The problem with just trading other things is that they don't have an agreed upon standard. Yes, I understand that even among currency we can't come to a consensus, but it's a lot smaller range than trading objects or services. Trading in this sense is more subjective, whereas when there's a standard for it to be measured it becomes a bit more objective.

I may be lamenting, but it's not that we value objects over a spiritual nature. Rather my lement is for the lack of care for our fellow man (or woman, for P.C. sake). Just as we have fought wars over religion and one person claiming their deity is better than anothers' we fight wars that are based on the abundance or lack of monetary wealth. I hate to use such an example, but look at the US troops being in the Middle East. We are playing world police only to protect our oil investments. Rather than focus on creating an economical car that isn't reliant on fossil fuels, we are losing soldiers in a fruitless battle where the nation being occupied doesn't want help. ***FFS, please don't continue a discussion on the war(s) going on in the desert, that belongs in politics***

----

I wouldn't go so far as to say that we have commerce due to evolution. It is a tool by which we place value on the goods and services that are provided by various job markets. I do agree though that it is in the interest of the individual to use and support commerce, if only for the sake of fitting in with the whole. Time and experience has taught us that going outside the norm and doing things in ways others aren't can be rather counter intuitive and, worse case scenario, quite disastrous.

" Money is power in the same way as marrying into upward social mobility."

This may have inadvertently made my point. Many times, people pursue their religious beliefs with such rigor and determination to try to achieve some (for lack of a better phrase) higher self. For Christians this is the hope that they will make it to heaven, for Hindus it's the hope of achieving Nirvana. For George Lucas it's to become one with the Force. The difference here being that with Money and commerce it's a bit more apparent and observable how close a person is to achieving their higher consumeristic self. This is why people, myself included, buy the bigger, better, more expensive TV's, iDevices, and WiiStation 360's. People grasp for every last dollar they can manage even if they are in a stable position financially.

[iNow]

Do people really "worship" money, though? I'm sure some do, but you're commenting about the majority as far as I can tell, and I'm not really ready to accept a premise that the majority of people in our society "worship" money.

[arc]

 

Perhaps... But at the same time, one doesn't worship a religion, they worship whatever it is at the religion's core. In most cases this is a deity. A more accurate way to say it then, in my opinion, would be that the religion is commerce and it's deity is the Almighty Dollar.

 

I think you are miss identifying the "deity" in your thesis.

 

 

 

Are you sure this is a true religious practice? Or is it a common construct based on our evolutionary journey as a social animal? To simply use money is just the decision to join a group behavior for personal gain. A primary behavior of humans throughout our history. It may be more utilitarian than say a formal ceremonial and cultural behavior like deity worship or marriage but none the less is motivated by social acceptance and by that personal gain. Money is power in the same way as marrying into upward social mobility.

 

Power is the deity that you are looking for in this. Money allows quick acquisition and disbursement of power. The amount I can pay for a lawyer is proportionate to the degree of success I will likely achieve in the legal issue I am engaged in. Money is simply the medium that power moves through most often, the most fluid form of power in the world, a form that in the past was easily transferred and now in this digital world is even more so. This power can be as brutal as a mob hit or as generous as a charitable gift that is often referred to as a way to "empower" the receiver.

 

Until the advent of a currency in the form of a universally coveted metal the transfer of power was limited to trading commodities in raw or finished form. These could be difficult to market in a small economic area and limited in its trading at great distances.

 

Money can be turned directly in to power and power directly into money. Money may be the root of all evil but power is the ground in which it suckles.

 

So back to my original post. Humans have always since their earliest beginnings associated safety and survival with power. So acquisition of power is at the core of what people desire. Power is what they covet, or what you would say worship.

 

They just simply throughout history have preferred to get it in cash.

Edited September 28, 2013 by arc

[WWLabRat]

 

I think you are miss identifying the "deity" in your thesis.

 

 

 

Power is the deity that you are looking for in this. Money allows quick acquisition and disbursement of power. The amount I can pay for a lawyer is proportionate to the degree of success I will likely achieve in the legal issue I am engaged in. Money is simply the medium that power moves through most often, the most fluid form of power in the world, a form that in the past was easily transferred and now in this digital world is even more so. This power can be as brutal as a mob hit or as generous as a charitable gift that is often referred to as a way to "empower" the receiver.

 

Until the advent of a currency in the form of a universally coveted metal the transfer of power was limited to trading commodities in raw or finished form. These could be difficult to market in a small economic area and limited in its trading at great distances.

 

Money can be turned directly in to power and power directly into money. Money may be the root of all evil but power is the ground in which it suckles.

 

So back to my original post. Humans have always since their earliest beginnings associated safety and survival with power. So acquisition of power is at the core of what people desire. Power is what they covet, or what you would say worship.

 

They just simply throughout history have preferred to get it in cash.

 

I think I'm spot on by naming money as the unconventional deity as it pulls strings behind almost everything that happens in society today and at the same time, it's not something that people would normally attach such a word to. While I do agree that power plays a major role in this, I don't think it is the deity. Even current standing religious orders have their own levels and uses of power. Power is merely the tool by which they are able to influence politics, commerce, travel, and individual perceptions.

 

Funny you should mention a universal currency as the Christian belief is that a universal currency is a sign of the end times according to the Book of Revelations.