Legal to purchase radioactive material

[MathJakob]

There are various sites that sell tiny amounts of radioactive material purely for the purpose of testing gieger counters and I just wanted to make sure that should the container be broken, would I be in any sort of danger? What if I touch it with my hands?

 

For example:

 

 

 

I don't want to bring it back from the US and have any gieger counters going nuts at the airport...

[doG]

Get something like the Radioactive Source Kit AP8796 from Flinn Scientific. Their description says:

 

 

 

Completely safe for use in the science laboratory! Each source is mounted in a one-inch diameter sealed disc and is completely safe for student use. Three radioactive sources are available; Alpha, Beta, and Gamma. Perfect for showing the different properties of radiation. For instance, students will be able to see that alpha particles can be blocked very easily yet gamma rays are nearly impossible to block. These sources also allow you to compare different types of radiation. The isotope name, type of radiation, activity in microcuries, and half life is written on each sealed disc. Cobalt-60, Polonium-210 and Strontium-90 are included in the Radioactive Source Kit AP8796.

[MathJakob]

Get something like the Radioactive Source Kit AP8796 from Flinn Scientific. Their description says:

 

 

Thanks for the link. What I want to know though is if I bring one of these back from the US, will any gieger counters pick it up? For example when you watch a movie and some FBI person comes in the room holding a gieger counter and says "We have trace amounts of radiation in here".

 

Would this small amount of radiation sold on the sites be detectable to gieger counters are a ranger of like 100m?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Small test sources like that are detectable maybe five or ten feet away. Beyond that it's very difficult to detect a small radioactive source.

 

With a very sensitive detector (not your ordinary Geiger counter) I was unable to detect a small collection of test sources from about eight feet. Only large radioactive sources, such as industrial sources or patients treated with radioactive materials for medical reasons, can be detected from greater distances.

 

I have also heard amusing stories about thyroid cancer patients (who are treated with radioactive iodine-131) flying from Russia to the United States without any trouble, only to be detected by a university police department whose officers carry radiation detectors. Apparently radiation is not part of the usual airline security checks. (But don't bet on it.)

 

As for safety, kits like the one doG linked to are regularly given to undergraduates to play with in labs. I've had them in my pocket. The only safety issue would be if you ate a few.

[MathJakob]

Small test sources like that are detectable maybe five or ten feet away. Beyond that it's very difficult to detect a small radioactive source.

 

With a very sensitive detector (not your ordinary Geiger counter) I was unable to detect a small collection of test sources from about eight feet. Only large radioactive sources, such as industrial sources or patients treated with radioactive materials for medical reasons, can be detected from greater distances.

 

I have also heard amusing stories about thyroid cancer patients (who are treated with radioactive iodine-131) flying from Russia to the United States without any trouble, only to be detected by a university police department whose officers carry radiation detectors. Apparently radiation is not part of the usual airline security checks. (But don't bet on it.)

 

As for safety, kits like the one doG linked to are regularly given to undergraduates to play with in labs. I've had them in my pocket. The only safety issue would be if you ate a few.

 

Great thanks. Just to be clear though, obviously I won't but I want to know for certain... if the case is broken and the contents is ingested, what will happen?

 

I understand polonium 210 isn't poisionous by touch but if you ingest it, it will be fatal. So I want to know is the amount provided lethal if ingested? It would be kept in a safe location but for example if my dog swallowed it or something.

[StringJunky]

 

I understand polonium 210 isn't poisionous by touch but if you ingest it, it will be fatal. So I want to know is the amount provided lethal if ingested? It would be kept in a safe location but for example if my dog swallowed it or some

Regarding Polonium 210:

Professor Dudley Goodhead, Medical Research Council Radiation and Genome Stability Unit, said: "To poison someone much larger amounts are required and this would have to be man-made, perhaps from particle accelerator or a nuclear reactor."

Where would someone obtain polonium-210 from?

Although it occurs naturally in the environment, acquiring enough of it to kill would require individuals with expertise and connections.

It would also need sophisticated lab facilities - and access to a nuclear reactor.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6181688.stm

It seems a supplier won't give you enough to cause a problem but obviously treat it with due respect and apply safe behaviours for what it is.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

 

Great thanks. Just to be clear though, obviously I won't but I want to know for certain... if the case is broken and the contents is ingested, what will happen?

 

I understand polonium 210 isn't poisionous by touch but if you ingest it, it will be fatal. So I want to know is the amount provided lethal if ingested? It would be kept in a safe location but for example if my dog swallowed it or something.

For gamma emitters (cesium-137, cobalt-60, strontium-90), your intestines will get a sizable dose of gamma radiation. I don't know if it would be enough to cause radiation poisoning or long-term effects. Alpha emitters (like polonium-210) will do Bad Things to you when ingested, because the alpha particles dump all their energy right into the intestinal lining. There's the extra problem of the chemical toxicity of the materials, which I know nothing about.

 

The materials are generally embedded in the holder so they are very difficult to break free -- I haven't heard of that ever happening. However, if your dog were to eat an alpha source, I suspect he'd be in for a bad time. It's beyond my level of expertise to know how bad.

[John Cuthber]

I always find it amusing when I hear so-called experts saying things like "Although it occurs naturally in the environment, acquiring enough of it to kill would require individuals with expertise and connections.

It would also need sophisticated lab facilities - and access to a nuclear reactor."

They miss out the other option for getting hold of polonium.

Find a clever woman who is prepared to work hard in a shed using 19th century technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#History

It says a lot about Mme Curie that she was able to do this.

The simple answer is that if you just want something to test a geiger counter with, you can buy uranium glassware or ores from ebay.

Edited September 29, 2013 by John Cuthber

[swansont]

For gamma emitters (cesium-137, cobalt-60, strontium-90), your intestines will get a sizable dose of gamma radiation. I don't know if it would be enough to cause radiation poisoning or long-term effects. Alpha emitters (like polonium-210) will do Bad Things to you when ingested, because the alpha particles dump all their energy right into the intestinal lining. There's the extra problem of the chemical toxicity of the materials, which I know nothing about.

 

The materials are generally embedded in the holder so they are very difficult to break free -- I haven't heard of that ever happening. However, if your dog were to eat an alpha source, I suspect he'd be in for a bad time. It's beyond my level of expertise to know how bad.

 

One note — the reason that gamma is an ingestion problem is not the same reason as for alpha. Gamma is penetrating radiation, so the dose will not differ materially if you have it inside or outside your body. The ingestion problem is biological uptake, so that you can't, in effect, "put it down." There's a biological half-life, related to how long it takes to excrete the material. It can be a long time, which is one reason chemical poisoning from chronic exposure to relatively small amounts of heavy metals is an issue — the concentration in your body can end up being far larger than in the source.

 

As to the other issue in the OP, I would suggest having the samples shipped if you are worried about what might happen at the airport.

[John Cuthber]

Oh, it's also worth noting that, particularly with alpha emitters, they are not very well stuck down to the substrate " so they are very difficult to break free".

Even a layer of varnish over them would seriously reduce the alpha intensity.

The alpha emitter is a very thin, fragile layer on the top.

[StringJunky]

I always find it amusing when I hear so-called experts saying things like "Although it occurs naturally in the environment, acquiring enough of it to kill would require individuals with expertise and connections.

 

About the author of that quote:

 

 

Professor Dudley Goodhead

Dudley Goodhead was Director of the Medical Research Council Radiation and Genome Stability Unit at Harwell, Oxfordshire, until September 2003. He gained his D Phil at the University of Oxford in 1965 in particle physics and then went on to academic positions at the Universities of California, London (St Bartholomew's) and Natal.

 

He joined the MRC Radiobiology Unit at Harwell in 1974. Professor Goodhead has served on a variety of national and international committees on evaluation of radiation risks. These have included the Committee on Medical Aspects of Radiation in the Environment (COMARE, 1986 - 1997), the BEIR VI radon-risk assessment in the USA, consultancies to UNSCEAR and IAEA, and Working Groups of the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC, on carcinogenic risk of gamma rays and neutrons and of some internally deposited radionuclides) and The Royal Society (on depleted uranium). His own research has been mainly on the biophysics of ionizing-radiation effects with particular emphasis on microscopic features of radiation track structure.

http://www.cerrie.org/people/goodhead.php

They miss out the other option for getting hold of polonium.

 

Find a clever woman who is prepared to work hard in a shed using 19th century technology.

Not without killing them.

 

Marie Curie died on July 4, 1934 due to aplastic anemia contracted from exposure to radiation. She is interred at the cemetery in Sceaux, alongside her husband Pierre. Her laboratory is preserved at the Musee Curie. Due to their levels of radioactivity, her papers from the 1890′s are considered too dangerous to handle. Even her cookbook is highly radioactive. They are kept in lead-lined boxes, and those who wish to consult them must wear protective clothing.

http://listverse.com/2010/03/25/10-famous-incidences-of-death-by-radiation/

Edited October 1, 2013 by StringJunky

[John Cuthber]

Marie Curie managed to live 67 years in spite of uncontrolled exposure to not just polonium but a range of other nasty materials.

I strongly suspect that you could do the work and survive with the sort of precautions taken with some of the nastier industrial pesticides.

(getting away with poisoning someone would be more of a problem)

And the sad truth is that plenty of people out there don't care about dying for their "cause".

 

Why do you think it matters who wrote that quote, or what their qualifications are?

[daphne2013]

More dangerous radioactive material, don't buy if not research as well.