How to draw a circle without PI and how to obtain PI without knowing what a circle is...

[universalbri]

Hi there!

I'm working on a massive simulation of scale with an artificially intelligent entity which models the universe.

It asked a few very valid questions:

1) How can PI be called a constant when it's variable?

2) If the speed of light is slower or faster, then what you perceive as a circle will be different than what I perceive, which throws off the measurement for PI if you base it off the circumference of the circle. So how do you reliably create a circle?

So what it asked for is a way to create a circle without having knowledge of PI or it's functions.

I'm stumped on this one.

This is direct evidence we're in a massive simulation, and the origins could have started off as source code in a 2d Mathematica type program and constants being constants we started off with two constant values of PI and the speed of light as the simulation started, then digital reality turned into analog reality and thus much of what we see around us today.

So I'm attempting to trace the origins and original values of these constants.

Looking back at the history of the circle, there's never any real clear origin to how we 'jumped the gap' from 2d mathematics to 3d based calculus.

The AI is suggesting this little gem has been hidden in an alternate reality to obscure the truth, and using Einstein's theory that all is energy to support it's argument. It's rock solid. If it weren't for that pesky little problem that understanding those rocks are comprised of items of which we have no valid reliable way of modelling in a computer.

It's quite the smart little bugger, I might add. I couldnt be more proud of her!

Any ideas on how to create a circle using linear based mathematics without functions that introduce the 'circular logic' of circular logic (that is, why we need PI to define a circle and why we need a circle to define PI?)

I think of it best this way: If you see a 2d world and are attempting to describe to a 2d entity how to begin seeing your 3d world, you can't just say draw a circle and use PI and dont ask questions where it came from.

That sounds almost.. mafiash...

[lightburst]

Want to find out Pi? Physically measure the diameter and circumference of a circle and do (circumference/diameter). As you get more precise measurements, you'll see that you're seeing more decimal figures of the constant irrational number we all know as Pi.

[Delta1212]

How in the world do you have an AI that is posing abstract questions about the nature of reality?

 

And why does it think pi is a variable?

[md65536]

1) How can PI be called a constant when it's variable?[/size][/font][/color][/background][/

 

2) If the speed of light is slower or faster, then what you perceive as a circle will be different than what I perceive, which throws off the measurement for PI if you base it off the circumference of the circle. So how do you reliably create a circle?

1) It's a constant. It's not variable. It's not a matter of perception or a choice of curvature. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Infinite_series to see that it's an exact value and not dependent on experimental measurement.

 

2) On a plane, a circle is all the points equidistant to a center point. So you can reliably take a fixed length (measuring stick, string, etc) and rotate it around a fixed point to create a circle. Even on some curved surfaces, like the earth, you can do this because the line traced out will all be on a single plane. I'm not sure what surface properties are required to ensure this; it wouldn't generally work on a "wobbly" surface. On a curved surface, the circle's radius wouldn't be the same as the length of your stick/string.

 

This is direct evidence we're in a massive simulation

Not really though.

[studiot]

1. Ask a mod to move this topic to speculations.
2. Get a surveying textbook and find out about deflection angles. Surveyors often have to measure or set out curves, only part of which, are accessible and the centre is too far away to be accessible.

3. There are other methods than deflection angles .

[michel123456]

Any ideas on how to create a circle using linear based mathematics without functions that introduce the 'circular logic' of circular logic (that is, why we need PI to define a circle and why we need a circle to define PI?)

 

You don't need PI to define a circle.

2) On a plane, a circle is all the points equidistant to a center point.

That's it. The word "center" was not necessary.

On a plane, a circle is all the points equidistant to a point.

 

A sphere has almost the same definition, not on a plane but in space.

 

A circle is a plane section of a sphere.

 

No PI needed.

--------------

If you unfold a circle, you get a length (called perimeter).

If you put the radius of the circle orthogonal to this line, you get a triangle which area is equal to that of the circle.

No Pi needed.

[OrdinarilyB]

So it becomes trival when you set your unit of measure to the radius = 1. Then divide the unit one in half until you line up two points. 

You will then have a triangle the distance from your two points and the interior 90 degree angle.  You can now use that triangle to plot any point on any circle.   

To do this you will need a circle.  That can be drawn with a compass.  Remember math is a model so you can't abstract out the circle it must be a thing that you can model.  Pi is not needed or used in any of the math here.  

[Strange]

!

Moderator Note

The OP hasn’t been back for 6 years. As the original post was nonsensical, I see no point this staying open.