Arrogance vs Genius.

[turionx2]

Can we tell the difference between arrogance and genius? And would a genius be seen as arrogant from an outside perspective in today's world?

[iNow]

IMO, they are unrelated. Intelligence expresses itself in many forms. Arrogance in only one.

[turionx2]

Can someone be arrogant without ever saying a word though?

Edited October 12, 2013 by turionx2

[timo]

IMO, they are unrelated. Intelligence expresses itself in many forms. Arrogance in only one.

I tend to agree with "they are unrelated". I don't quite see how arrogance is a manifestation of intelligence, though. In fact, that seems to contradict the first statement.

[turionx2]

I think you misunderstood timo.

Edited October 12, 2013 by turionx2

[CharonY]

Can someone be arrogant without ever saying a word though?

 

You can be arrogant all alone. But if you do not interact (including body language) with anyone, no one would know. But as others mentioned, I do not see how one relates to the other. You can be an arrogant idiot or a humble genius. Some may argue that the former is far more prevalent.

[Phi for All]

Can someone be arrogant without ever saying a word though?

 

I do this all the time and no one ever catches on.

[cladking]

"Genius" is greatly overrated. Intelligence itself is overrated.

 

Arrogance is always misplaced because anyone can show sparks of genius, knowledge, or greatness. Most people who are arrogant are just putting on airs and putting off people.

[Deidre]

Intelligence can be innate, or it can be earned. Arrogance is either a character flaw, or an attitude. Arrogance is often an insecure person's character flaw, for truly confident people don't have anything to prove or brag about. It's usually those who feel inferior to others, even if they possess high intelligence, who exhibit arrogant behavior. So, intelligence doesn't breed arrogance. Insecurity does.

[turionx2]

Thank you for sharing an exceptional definition of arrogance Deidre. I guess curing the insecurity would cure the arrogance? Physical activity as a cure perhaps?

 

What I meant to ask was if the behavior of a humble genius, such as being independent and solving problems independently with an exceptional ability can be misunderstood as arrogance from a mentally inferior outsider looking in at the actions of the humble genius.

[imatfaal]

Thank you for sharing an exceptional definition of arrogance Deidre. I guess curing the insecurity would cure the arrogance? Physical activity as a cure perhaps?

 

What I meant to ask was if the behavior of a humble genius, such as being independent and solving problems independently with an exceptional ability can be misunderstood as arrogance from a mentally inferior outsider looking in at the actions of the humble genius.

 

With regard to your clarified question above - I think it is very easy for someone with an ease of understanding or a great faculty for problem-solving (whether innate or the result of hard-work) and slightly below par social skills to give an initial appearance of extreme arrogance. It is a fine line between being a skilled operator who is good at demonstrating those aptitudes and not scared of sharing techniques with anyone and being a smart alec who loves to show off and seems determined to show everyone how things should be done. I have known people for whom the same attitude puts them in the good camp for some people and firmly into the less favourable one for others. It is easy to spot public figures from wildly disparate groups who similarly divide opinion; Richard Dawkins, David Beckham, any party-Politician ...

[Deidre]

Thank you for sharing an exceptional definition of arrogance Deidre. I guess curing the insecurity would cure the arrogance? Physical activity as a cure perhaps?

What I meant to ask was if the behavior of a humble genius, such as being independent and solving problems independently with an exceptional ability can be misunderstood as arrogance from a mentally inferior outsider looking in at the actions of the humble genius.

I think you are trying to insult me for some reason, as this reply seems sarcastic. So you can answer your own question. Edited October 13, 2013 by Deidre

[Ophiolite]

I think you are trying to insult me for some reason, as this reply seems sarcastic. So you can answer your own question.

I take it that was you trying to demonstrate arrogance in a practical manner. If not, I apologise. If so, well done. Nice one.

 

 

Now, to no one in particular: I am confident, you are arrogant, he is pig-headed.

[turionx2]

With regard to your clarified question above - I think it is very easy for someone with an ease of understanding or a great faculty for problem-solving (whether innate or the result of hard-work) and slightly below par social skills to give an initial appearance of extreme arrogance. It is a fine line between being a skilled operator who is good at demonstrating those aptitudes and not scared of sharing techniques with anyone and being a smart alec who loves to show off and seems determined to show everyone how things should be done. I have known people for whom the same attitude puts them in the good camp for some people and firmly into the less favourable one for others. It is easy to spot public figures from wildly disparate groups who similarly divide opinion; Richard Dawkins, David Beckham, any party-Politician ...

This answers my question.

 

I enjoyed your perspective since I never thought about it like this. What I think your comment boils down to is who we surround ourselves with is what ultimately matters in regards to how we are perceived.

 

I think you are trying to insult me for some reason, as this reply seems sarcastic. So you can answer your own question.

You clearly misunderstood my previous comment. I complimented you on your(?) definition of arrogance since I thought it was very insightful. The second part isn't even about you since I don't even know you in person. Why would I insult you?

 

Maybe you have some kind of inferiority complex(?).

Edited October 13, 2013 by turionx2

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

If everyone could please cut out the vague insults, it would be much appreciated.

[Ophiolite]

My prior post garnered a -1. Since this thread is about arrogance, I think it may be useful to explore why. For that reason only, I would be interested in understanding why a member feels it deserves a demerit. Here is the post:

 

I take it that was you trying to demonstrate arrogance in a practical manner. If not, I apologise. If so, well done. Nice one.

 

 

Now, to no one in particular: I am confident, you are arrogant, he is pig-headed.

 

This, from Deirdre, is what kicked the sequence off.

Intelligence can be innate, or it can be earned. Arrogance is either a character flaw, or an attitude. Arrogance is often an insecure person's character flaw, for truly confident people don't have anything to prove or brag about. It's usually those who feel inferior to others, even if they possess high intelligence, who exhibit arrogant behavior. So, intelligence doesn't breed arrogance. Insecurity does.

That seems a reasonable take, though I don't quite understand how you can earn intelligence. But it seems a plausible perspective on arrogance.

 

turionx2 replied:

Thank you for sharing an exceptional definition of arrogance Deidre. I guess curing the insecurity would cure the arrogance? Physical activity as a cure perhaps?

What I meant to ask was if the behavior of a humble genius, such as being independent and solving problems independently with an exceptional ability can be misunderstood as arrogance from a mentally inferior outsider looking in at the actions of the humble genius.

Now the use of the word exceptional (describing a reasonable, but pedestrian definition) does raise a small warning flag, but overall I don't really see the post as being sarcastic. Perhaps turionx2 will clarify their intention.

 

Deirdre, apparently found this to be sarcastic and so responded in this manner.

I think you are trying to insult me for some reason, as this reply seems sarcastic. So you can answer your own question.

 

Now since I had not found turinox's post sarcastic I strongly suspected Deirdre was being amusing and deliberately posing as an arrogant poster to illustrate the point. I thought that was rather a nice touch, but recognised that maybe she did genuinely find it sarcastic and her post was an objective statement. So, I explored both possibilities in my reply, apologising if she had found it sarcastic and applauding if she had not and was instead being witty and pertinent.

 

So, I am not clear why, for participating in a positive way within the thread my post should deserve a demerit. Might we see this as an example, exacerabted by the medium we are working in, where perfectly innocent actions can be perceived as arrogant?

 

Note: I am also presuming that no one found fault with my I am confident, you are arrogant, he is pig-headed. That is a standard way of expressing how actions are viewed differently by different people. (I even took the precaution of saying it was to no one in particular, lest Deirdre or turionx thought it aimed at them.

Edit: Apologies to hypervalent-iodine. I was composing my post when his moderation note was added. If you wish I can remove the post, but I do feel the entire incident is an excellent illustration of how events can be misinterepreted as arrogance, especially when not talking face to face.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Ophiolite

[turionx2]

This thread is/was about why a non-arrogant person like a genius would be perceived as arrogant. An arrogant person gives the illusion of being superior mentally while a genius just is without showing off.

 

Maybe I made a mistake with the title.

 

I found her definition of arrogance exceptional because on a certain level, arrogance displays a problem that is going on mentally with the individual displaying the arrogant behavior.

[iNow]

I think an important aspect of this is being missed in the discussion. Sometimes, people feel insecure when around others that are smarter than them and are over-reading condescension and arrogance where in many cases none actually exists. Some people do have feelings of inferiority (for whatever reason) and interpret (often mistakenly) objective comments or corrections from others as arrogance.

[Tridimity]

What I meant to ask was if the behavior of a humble genius, such as being independent and solving problems independently with an exceptional ability can be misunderstood as arrogance from a mentally inferior outsider looking in at the actions of the humble genius.

 

 

One of the main defining characteristics of arrogance, is that the individual concerned will tend to assume that their opinions and interpretations of facts are 'correct' and/or superior to those of others, even where their initial assumption is flawed. The individual will therefore refrain from seeking the viewpoints of others, as they see no need to do so. Note that this is different to individuals who have an innate disposition or acquired preference for working and being and thinking alone. Some people who display arrogant attitudes do fall into this category, but others are happy to accept and acknowledge their own limitations whilst still preferring to do things their own way, rather than working with others. I guess the latter is about personal responsibility: failing or succeeding on one's own terms - without some measure of this independence, a person's life lacks authenticity.

It is possible for an outsider to misconstrue the nature of another person - this effect would reflect more on the capacity for accurate judgment on the part of the observer, rather than on the mental capacity of the other person. Intelligence and arrogance are clearly distinct, in that intelligence is a natural mental capacity, whereas arrogance is an attitude or state of mind. The two factors sometimes overlap but are essentially independent such that a person may be:

 

i. Intelligent and arrogant

ii. Intelligent and not arrogant

iii. Unintelligent and arrogant

iv. Unintelligent and not arrogant

 

Personally, I find that arrogance - or lack thereof - is a greater indicator than intelligence per se of whether or not I will like someone on a personal level. That is, I could more easily get along with people whose personalities are broadly consistent with categories (ii) and (iv) than I could with those who fall within categories (i) and (iii).

Edited October 13, 2013 by Tridimity

[Deidre]

If someone is truly "humble," whether of high intelligence or not, then an observer wouldn't think such a person is arrogant simply based on his or her IQ. (or educational accomplishments)

 

Arrogance is a choice, high (innate) intelligence isn't. Arrogance stems from many things but it is a behavior, a choice to treat others as though he or she is superior to them. In my observations, usually arrogant people feel small and are trying to overcompensate for what they feel they lack as compared to those around them. It can be helpful to try to see that instead of writing the person off because everyone has issues, they just manifest in different ways. We all have our own foibles, I should say but to me, geniuses will only be viewed as arrogant if they choose to act superior due to their intelligence. Of those I know who are of high natural intelligence, they are pretty modest people.

 

To the OP: thanks for clarifying your original point and stating that you weren't being sarcastic. I didn't read your words as a compliment so my apology to you. I should have asked for clarification before leaping to the wrong conclusion.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Deidre

[turionx2]

Tridimity,

 

You're basically saying that you wouldn't work with an arrogant person regardless of whether they were intelligent or not.

 

You bring up some valid points and I have another question.

 

Do you think arrogant people know that they are being arrogant?

 

Deidre,

 

Your definition of arrogance gives off a vibe that arrogance is a side effect or manifestation of mental illness. If I understood you correctly, how can it be a choice?

 

I agree that we all have issues however I don't believe we are helpless with these issues for life. For me, physical activity brings out my best side and inactivity brings out my worst side.

 

I'm glad we can move forward in a positive direction.

Edited October 13, 2013 by turionx2

[Ophiolite]

Do you think arrogant people know that they are being arrogant?

I think those who are genuinely arrogant from a sense of superiority in those attributes they consider important do not see it as arrogant, but simply a recognition of the facts.

 

As an aside, the thread has called me to recall various situations. I recall being accused of arrogance because I was - allegedly - downplaying my skill in a particular area. Supposedly - and I still don't quite follow the logic of this - by seeking to minimise the difference between my skill level and that of others I was actually emphasising it. Go figure! I never could.

[Deidre]

Tridimity,

 

You're basically saying that you wouldn't work with an arrogant person regardless of whether they were intelligent or not.

 

You bring up some valid points and I have another question.

 

Do you think arrogant people know that they are being arrogant?

 

Deidre,

 

Your definition of arrogance gives off a vibe that arrogance is a side effect or manifestation of mental illness. If I understood you correctly, how can it be a choice?

 

I agree that we all have issues however I don't believe we are helpless with these issues for life. For me, physical activity brings out my best side and inactivity brings out my worst side.

 

I'm glad we can move forward in a positive direction.

No, I actually said that I thought arrogance is more of an attitude or character flaw.

I don't believe we are helpless with our issues either, just said we all have foibles, and for some, arrogance might be their struggle to overcome. It's usually the byproduct of something else, like feeling inferior or feeling small, and trying to overcompensate. That has just been my thoughts about it, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Mine is just one in a sea of many.

[s1eep]

Intelligence can be innate, or it can be earned. Arrogance is either a character flaw, or an attitude. Arrogance is often an insecure person's character flaw, for truly confident people don't have anything to prove or brag about. It's usually those who feel inferior to others, even if they possess high intelligence, who exhibit arrogant behavior. So, intelligence doesn't breed arrogance. Insecurity does.

 

I think you have made a mistake; a persons insecurities can be because of real life pressures, therefore a persons personal "insecurity", is not breeding arrogance, but rather the enmity between geniuses that causes them to interact with each other on such a frequent basis. I suppose it can be thought of as intelligence, but I would say it's reality-based. Reality is arrogant, as well as other 'socially perverse' things. You could say it was luck and pin it to the person but it's not necessarily luck and the scene which brings geniuses together is more to blame - predisposed luck.

[Deidre]

I think you have made a mistake; a persons insecurities can be because of real life pressures, therefore a persons personal "insecurity", is not breeding arrogance, but rather the enmity between geniuses that causes them to interact with each other on such a frequent basis. I suppose it can be thought of as intelligence, but I would say it's reality-based. Reality is arrogant, as well as other 'socially perverse' things. You could say it was luck and pin it to the person but it's not necessarily luck and the scene which brings geniuses together is more to blame - predisposed luck.

My own findings tell me that arrogance points more to someone feeling inadequate. Arrogance is an outward sign to others saying, 'notice me.' If someone is happy with his or her own life, confident and satisfied, in essence 'at peace,' then that type of person has no reason to be arrogant. Arrogance is often perceived as something that naturally happens when someone becomes successful, etc. But, the opposite (in my opine) is true. Usually people who are arrogant, feel that they are inadequate, so no matter how intelligent, successful, attractive, wealthy they may be, they don't feel content with their lives. It's hard for me to completely explain. lol