Free energy?

[njaohnt]

Once again, I have made a design that I can't figure out why it wouldn't create free energy.

Fuel cell
Green is the fuel cell anode.
This blue is the fuel cell electrolyte.
Yellow is the cathode of the fuel cell.

 

Electrolysis of water

Red is the anode for electrolysis of the water.

This blue is the cathode for electrolysis of water.

This blue is water. It has sodium hydroxide.

 

The < is a valve that will open when the first section is low on water.

This should get free energy out of the fuel cell, if the turbines run the electrolysis. You would need to spin up the turbines to get it started. If there isn't enough energy to run the electrolysis, you would just add more turbines.

[swansont]

The best you can do is the electrolysis and the fuel cell consuming/generating equal amounts of energy, because you are just running the reaction in two directions. But there will always be losses — waste heat, friction, etc., so you generate less than you use.

[njaohnt]

The best you can do is the electrolysis and the fuel cell consuming/generating equal amounts of energy, because you are just running the reaction in two directions. But there will always be losses — waste heat, friction, etc., so you generate less than you use.

Why? Let's say we take away the fuel cell. Can the first turbine not keep the electrolysis going?

[swansont]

Why? Let's say we take away the fuel cell. Can the first turbine not keep the electrolysis going?

 

What drives the turbine?

[njaohnt]

 

What drives the turbine?

Hydrogen that is pushed up by water.

Edited October 14, 2013 by njaohnt

[swansont]

Hydrogen that is pushed up by water.

 

Where does the hydrogen come from? Electrolysis? You've got the same problem. The turbines won't give you enough energy to sustain the electrolysis.

[njaohnt]

Add another turbine.

 

 

Where does the hydrogen come from? Electrolysis? You've got the same problem. The turbines won't give you enough energy to sustain the electrolysis.

Add another turbine.

[swansont]

Adding a turbine doesn't solve the problem. You do this by making the tank deeper, but that means it takes more energy to create the bubble, because the pressure is greater at the bottom. There's no way to win. There's not even a way to break even.

[Deidre]

Adding a turbine doesn't solve the problem. You do this by making the tank deeper, but that means it takes more energy to create the bubble, because the pressure is greater at the bottom. There's no way to win. There's not even a way to break even.

Unfortunately, this is too true.

[Greg H.]

0. You must play the game.

1. You can't win.

2. You can't break even.

3. You can't quit the game.

-- Charles Percy Snow, CBE (1905 - 1980)

[njaohnt]

Adding a turbine doesn't solve the problem. You do this by making the tank deeper, but that means it takes more energy to create the bubble, because the pressure is greater at the bottom. There's no way to win. There's not even a way to break even.

Oh, yes the water pressure. I've had this idea for over a year, and I didn't see it.