Really? I can't deny it anymore.

[iNow]

I used to be in the middle class but I am quickly moving backwards under the Obama and democrat lead Senate.

What specific policies have they enacted that you feel are responsible for the decline you've experienced? Are you able to cite anything specific so we can learn from your experience?

 

It's always amusing to listen to leftist throw out unsubstantiated facts about how the rich are soaking the poor and middle class and they refuse to acknowledge how under the leadership of a republican lead administration the economy was chugging along and I was receiving raises and overtime on a regular biases. Since Obama has been elected and the democrats had control of all three branches for 2 years I went two years without raise, overtime is almost nonexistent, my gross income has decreased $10,000 a year

In what industry do you work, and what type of occupation are you in? There are likely to be a multitude of factors other than "which party is in office" that are more accurately implicated in these changes you describe.

 

Back when George Bush was president I didn't have a single problem with my health insurance, but after Obamacare law has passed my insurance has changed every year at enrollment. My prices have gone up and my coverages have gone down. Since Obamacare my insurance no longer pays 100% for preventive visit to my doctor yet before that it did. Even my dental insurance no longer pays 100% for cleanings and my vision insurance no longer pays 100% for regular checkups.

This is a VERY interesting claim since Obamacare only began 26 days ago. How is it possible that it's responsible for changes in your enrollment "every single year" for seemingly several years now?

 

It's depressing that so many people refuse to think for themselves, they regurgitate everything they hear from propaganda "news" organizations but they can't offer a single shred of factual evidence to backup anything they say.

Couldn't agree more. Looking forward to your responses to the above. Edited October 27, 2013 by iNow

[TeaParty]

The Republicans in general, and their T faction in particular, have adopted fascism as their governing ideology.

 

 

 

You spend whole paragraphs detailing your unhappiness with the Reagan economy and its effects on you personally, and then you say you prefer it to the former prosperity of the American middle class. Go figure.

 

Jsut to note: Carter only served one term as Pres (not "three or four"), and managed to avoid crashing the US economy despite the OPEC oil shock and Paul Volcker's manipulation of the interest rates. (The US economy Reagan was given was healthy and prosperous, despite the Republican owned and controlled Federal Reserve bank doing this, from Wiki: "The primary cause of the recession was a contractionary monetary policy established by the Federal Reserve System to control high inflation.^[4] In the wake of the 1973 oil crisis and the 1979 energy crisis, - - - ").

 

In addition, the only double digit unemployment rate then was recorded around November of 1982 - toward the end of the effects of Reagan's second annual budget. Also, "the Democrats" did not take over the US governmen in 2007; at most, they gained a slim majority - if all the Blue Dogs voted Party line - in the House, with an even split in the Senate (and the tiebreaking vote a Republican), and Repuiblican control of the Supreme Court and the White House -getting a narrow and negotiable voting majority in one half of one branch of the US government is not "gaining control". And so forth. Know your history, or you'll repeat it.

Actually I wrote a whole paragraph explaining how Reagan turned around a failing economy and Obama has not.

 

Secondly I was being facetious when I said Carter served a 3rd and 4th term, I am referring to Obama's terms as Carters which I did mistakenly said 3rd and 4th when I should have said 2nd and 3rd. Obama has only benefited one person since being elected. He moved Jimmy Carter out of the top spot of being Americas worst president.

 

I'll have to go back and look but Reagan had 2 recessions to deal with in his first term so a double digit unemployment is probable. However it ultimately comes down to what steps where taking to recover from it and the results of the recovery. I have yet to see anything recover under Obama. The economy is joke even Mexico has had a better recovery then use. Gas prices are ridiculously high ever since Obama took office. Food prices are up and steadily climbing. Even his signature legislation is a complete and udder failure which is par for the course for this administration so I'm not surprised but I'm sure you have a zillion excuses as to why he's not responsible - none of which I'm interested in hearing because I don't care for made up BS.

[iNow]

Possibly the economy is struggling because all of the programs that have been proposed to help have been blocked by an obstructionist opposition party?

[TeaParty]

What specific policies have they enacted that you feel are responsible for the decline you've experienced? Are you able to cite anything specific so we can learn from your experience?

 

In what industry do you work, and what type of occupation are you in? There are likely to be a multitude of factors other than "which party is in office" that are more accurately implicated in these changes you describe.

 

This is a VERY interesting claim since Obamacare only began 26 days ago. How is it possible that it's responsible for changes in your enrollment "every single year" for seemingly several years now?

 

Couldn't agree more. Looking forward to your responses to the above.

A lot of what Obama has done to effect the economy is what he hasn't done or refuses to do. I am in the transportation industry I drive a truck for FedEx. Obama has refused to allow drilling in places that have previously had drilling. The Gulf oil spill has been used as a reason to not allow drilling. He refuses to allow the pipe line from Canada which would add thousands of jobs and reduce the dependency on foreign oil which would reduce the cost of fuel which in return would help everything and everyone. My company has made huge changes based on fuel cost alone. Most of my disposable income comes from overtime but the company has to cut back and customers have choose different ways to ship packages because the company has raise their prices.

 

He also refuses to lower taxes. They always throw out the tax cut for the rich argument yet when it came time to let the Bush tax cuts expire he didn't do it. That's because he knows how much those tax increases would hurt the middle class and the poor. He absolutely refuses to deregulate anything or even eases regulation on companies which forces companies to make changes which cost money and gets passed on to the consumer which always hurts the poor and the middle class. The regulations on auto makers as caused so much damage and raised the prices of cars so much that most people can't afford to buy a new car. Like me they're driving around in a 12 year old car and piecing it together because they're afraid to buy a new one because I might not have a job in two years.

 

Obamacare has been the law of the land for 3 years, it's just now getting all of this attention because it is at the point that you as an individual have to get involved. Companies on the other hand have had to get prepared to be in compliance with the new law once it took effect and as such a lot of people have been effected by those changes. The law is so ridiculous that no one knew how it was going to effect them so as companies slowly learned what was in the law (because Nancy Pelosi said we had to pass it to find out what's in it) they made the changes. People are being dropped because the policies they had no longer comply with the new law. By law the insurance companies can not offer these plans. People that do not receive insurance through an employer and bought plans on their own have had their policies canceled and are now being forced to buy much more expensive plans that comply with the law.

Possibly the economy is struggling because all of the programs that have been proposed to help have been blocked by an obstructionist opposition party?

Nope it's just the opposite. Those obstructionist have actually stop more destruction from happening.

 

BTW, why is it the republicans are obstructionist when they oppose socialism but libs aren't when they oppose freedom and individualism?

 

Funny how that works.

BTW I don't even know how I got to this forum. I was reading something and clicked on a link and ended up here. I read some of the comments and I had to register to respond because I can't stand to read such uniformed drivel. I probably won't be coming back so do yourself a favor and think for yourself and look for the answers based on your own life's experience. Look around you and see what's going on and apply that to what you hear and read because regardless of which side its coming from it's almost always painted in favor of the party it comes from.

 

For example the attacks on the TeaParty are completely outrageous and unprovable. It's just that they are making a difference and shaking things up and that makes the establishment of both parties nervous. Also a little know fact that is never reported - the TeaParty is made of people from all walks of liberal made up labels. White, Black, gay, straight, rich, poor, republican, democrat, independent (me), young, old, male, female, pro life, pro choice etc. etc.

[Ringer]

BTW I don't even know how I got to this forum. I was reading something and clicked on a link and ended up here. I read some of the comments and I had to register to respond because I can't stand to read such uniformed drivel. I probably won't be coming back so do yourself a favor and think for yourself and look for the answers based on your own life's experience. Look around you and see what's going on and apply that to what you hear and read because regardless of which side its coming from it's almost always painted in favor of the party it comes from.

 

For example the attacks on the TeaParty are completely outrageous and unprovable. It's just that they are making a difference and shaking things up and that makes the establishment of both parties nervous. Also a little know fact that is never reported - the TeaParty is made of people from all walks of liberal made up labels. White, Black, gay, straight, rich, poor, republican, democrat, independent (me), young, old, male, female, pro life, pro choice etc. etc.

So you don't respond specifically to iNow's request and then decide to leave once you've made claims you can't back up. That's not a very good strategy to show your side has good points.

[iNow]

I am in the transportation industry I drive a truck for FedEx.

Thanks for sharing. What is a bit strange to me is that you blame Obama and the democrats for your dropping salary instead of recognizing that there has been a global recession and people aren't buying or shipping as much stuff as they used to. Occam's razor suggests that one of those explanations is far more likely to be valid than the other.

 

Global commerce itself almost halted when Lehman fell and we're still slowing recovering from that massive economic crisis, so of course there have been fewer goods to ship. Demand has fallen and people aren't buying things and your employer has struggled, and so too have their employees like you. Scapegoating Obama and "the liberals" for all of this is a strange approach for someone like you who values truth and integrity the way you seem to.

 

 

My company has made huge changes based on fuel cost alone.

I'm unsure if you're aware of this, but fuel prices have risen around the globe, not just in the US, and our president and "the democrats" or "the liberals" don't control global oil prices. The world has a limited supply of oil and there has been a rapidly growing demand for that limited supply as more people want to use oil, especially in India and China. That's the single biggest reason costs have increased.

 

Are you suggesting that "the liberals" and Obama are somehow responsible for higher demand for oil in China and India? Surely, you must see how silly that sounds.

 

Also, you should know... While allowing the Keystone pipeline to move forward would help to alleviate a few supply bottlenecks, it would NOT bring down gas prices, and nor would some extra drilling offshore or in nature preserves.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-03-26/why-the-keystone-pipeline-wont-ease-pain-at-the-pump

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/22/20-experts-who-say-drilling-wont-lower-gas-pric/184040

 

He also refuses to lower taxes. They always throw out the tax cut for the rich argument yet when it came time to let the Bush tax cuts expire he didn't do it. That's because he knows how much those tax increases would hurt the middle class and the poor.

You are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/a-bogus-tax-attack-against-obama/

Obama repeatedly cut taxes for such families, first through a tax credit in effect for 2009 and 2010, and beginning in 2011, through a reduction in the payroll tax that is worth $1,000 this year to workers earning $50,000 a year.

In addition to the above, it should be noted that taxes on families under Obama are at their lowest point in the last 50 years:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/28/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-taxes-families-are-their-lowest-/

 

 

He absolutely refuses to deregulate anything or even eases regulation on companies which forces companies to make changes which cost money and gets passed on to the consumer which always hurts the poor and the middle class.

Again, I feel as if someone's been lying to you and you've bought into this story where big bad bogey man Obama is the ultimate scapegoat. What you've just said is again patently untrue:

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/18/mitt-romney/federal-regulations-quadrupled-under-obama/

the most up-to-date figures show about 8.5 percent fewer regulations in Obamas first 46 months than in the same time frame for Bush. That tally comes from the Office of Management and Budget.

 

The chart below comes from the OMB Watch report, comparing regulations and economically significant regulations under presidents Bill Clinton, Bush and Obama.

 

 

"The story is much more of continuity than radical change," said Michael Livermore, executive director of the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law.

 

Since 1994 the number of regulations approved per year has ranged from 228 to 371, the group found.

 

Between 2009 and 2011, the Obama administration approved an average of 297 regulations per year, comparable to yearly figures for the past 18 years.

People are being dropped because the policies they had no longer comply with the new law.

Well, contrary to your assertion here the evidence actually shows that some companies are dropping health coverage for their employees because:

 

1) medical costs continue to rise so coverage is becoming more and more expensive for companies to offer to employees (something that is being helped, not hurt, by the Affordable Care Act... aka Obamacare), and...

 

2) The risk to companies for dropping coverage for their employees is lower now due to higher unemployment. Companies can afford to drop health coverage because there are so many people out of work right now. Those people currently out of work are more likely to take jobs that pay them less (hence lowering salaries) and tend to be willing to do so without the additional incentive of health coverage.

 

This means companies can stop offering coverage without losing their ability to attract enough staff to cover their operations and needs. The demand for labor is low while the supply of labor is high, so companies are no longer incentivized to attract personnel through attractive healthcare options. Obamacare actually strengthens the protections of the employee and holds companies to a higher standard, but I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

 

I can't stand to read such uniformed drivel.

Then why are you writing so much of it yourself?

 

Listen... I understand that you're angry and even struggling right now and it's easy to blame those in power. You're not alone in that, and we faced similar responses from people after the Great Depression in the 1930s (an angry populace searching for easy answers and being misled by lies and quick scapegoats and facile answers to their daily challenges).

 

However, it very much appears that (much like most other members of the quote unquote Tea Party) your anger is largely misplaced and your grasp of the facts surrounding these issues is tenuous, at best. We can have a meaningful dialog and a productive discussion about how to strengthen our economy and improve our futures and increase our financial well-being, but not until we at last make a commitment to once again connect ourselves with reality and move away from the countless fictions and myths and caricatures that seem to be driving so much of the narrative right now.

Edited October 27, 2013 by iNow

[Tridimity]

Waitforufo, I'm not going to listen to pessimism. I worked very hard to get the degree that I have. I did a lot of reading and even more writing. I've never attempted to get published, but part of me knows that people would love to read my work in a journal. I know that my contributions have been invaluable and have interdisciplinary implications. Just the other day I asked one of my friends, "Have you ever heard of a unit of knowledge?" (I coined that term). He said "yes, but the problem is that it's so vague." And I responded with "that's the beauty of it, it's a variable for a variable. That type of object has never been presented in the history of mankind until now, and the thing about it is that if you believe that the mind is part of the body, and that you have knowledge, then you must believe that there are physical bits of knowledge contained inside of you." This bit of information is literally being taught at every university that I know of now and I've heard it being talked about by very respectable intellectual people. Leanord Suskind almost said it in one of his lectures on statistical mechanics. Part of me feels, with a good deal of confidence, that statistical mechanics would not even exist if I never shared my ideas.

 

The truth is that you can get my general philosophy online for free, you will not be able to find it in scientific journals (unless it is plagiarized), and you will not find it in a library. As Chomsky says, it's amazing how the fundamental question has been ignored for this long ("what is language?"). I did not ignore this question, I gave a very sensible answer to the question and proposed an argument that no one has been able to refute. People may have been hesitant at first to adopt this type of philosophy, but seriously, it has been adopted at least tacitly. Truth is, I'm a punk, I've done my fair share of kicking and screaming on a very vast scale. If I didn't try to explain my ideas, then science in general would be that much slower or behind in it's philosophy and computation. I didn't study much math, but since I seriously concerned myself with the one thing that I've always loved in an intellectual sense, I've pioneered (I hate that term) a new type of math. I literally took math and made it compatible with cognitive science (psychology, linguistics, computer science, artificial intelligence, neuroscience, etc.). I gave hope for unification of these sciences. I provided an equation that is one square inch that gives the general understanding of how to acquire cognitive capabilities in mechanical terms. This information is free if you know what you're searching for. However, when it comes to the actual logic and the actual math that goes into the computation, I guarantee you that you will never find anyone as specialized as I am. I made a program that will literally acquire any language, even dolphin. Some people are skeptical, and Chomsky would even say that it's a failure, but he knows that that is by the standards of the science that came before my generation, and it is besides the point. He says, what do we learn from this endeavour? "Nothing, maybe a little around the margins." It's true, my lifes work literally boils down to the biggest list that mankind has ever been able to contemplate. It's a list that is so large and so complex that it's entirely useless to contemplate, and if you try to look at the thing your computer will crash (and I'm sure that even the worlds best supercomputer would crash). Just because you can't look at it doesn't mean that it's not useful though. It's accessible instantaneously. The computer does not need to search through every item on the list to know whether the point of interest is in the list. The military has benefitted greatly from my philosophy. I've heard them use my terms themselves.

 

All of this is irrelevant, but I think that anyone insightful in these areas knows the truth. My name is kept silent, and I kind of like it that way, but I also wish that people knew that the very basis of their technology relies on my philosophical insights. Where do I come in though? When will I be rewarded for what I have done? Part of me really wants to believe that I am a modern day Newton, but the other part of me says that I'm nothing but a schizophrenic (whatever that means). I've taught classes large enough to fill a lecture hall in my time. I've presented my ideology in plenty of classes. Suspicious things have happened in my presence that no one wants to acknowledge. Ever since I started talking about these things, my classes have been audited, my professors say that someone is like a "baby crying in the forums". I talk to a professor of mine and say that I'm paranoid, he's like "why? What would PROMPT you to say that?" Hence, another one of my terms are being used... prompting. I will help where I can because I feel that I am able to provide the insight that others simply do not think about, and I've even done it here in these forums with regards to the plague of spam that we all encountered. It doesn't happen anymore.

 

I hate to seem like I'm self aggrandizing, but seriously, where do I come in here? Will someone not take me under their wing at least for graduate studies? Can I go back to school for computer science? Can I get the grant for my research that these people keep calling me about? I can make a computer speak dolphin for gods sake. Where do I come in? Where is my place in society? People love to speak with me, people love to speak about my ideas, but people don't want to hire someone with just a bachelors degree who didn't get the degree in computer science or computational linguistics. I'm very confident that I can write that program that will have general intelligence, and not only in English, but in any language that it encounters.... yes, even dolphin.

 

Don't tell me that my degree will never provide me with a middle class job, I'm searching every day for that job and when I get it, I will cherish it more than anyone before me. I think that I can be the key employee for your business, you will have to insure my life because that's how valuable I could be for your business. The real question is, does the job exist? I can't tell you how many professors of mine have simply told me, "you're doing something different." The field that I concern myself with didn't exist. I call it computational linguistics, but it's actually cognitive science (a science that I also feel bases itself on my philosophy). It's just kind of ironic that when these professors from Stanford, MIT, and other schools with people that seriously concern themselves with work like my own (and write about it, or post videos of their classes on youtube) do not release the videos of classes that are concerned with my philosophy. There was a Stanford cognitive science class posted on youtube where he was going to teach the next class on the freedom of will, the class was never put on the internet. Leonard Suskind himself almost had a slip when one of his students asked "[what exactly are you talking about?], "A unit of..... Well, let's just call it a bit of information." Yup, there it is. There is the reconciliation that I need. It makes me happy to know that I've been useful, but can you make use of me as a person? Will you let me have some independence?

 

Enough said. I'm an unusual person. I might even call myself a freak to some extent. The very first book I got was "the handy science answer book." I've concerned myself with science since I was a wee little boy, and I've been contemplating it ever since. I can't even count how many languages I've studied, and I've found commonalities in all of them and I've proposed a reasonable answer to the fundamental question, what is language. Language is one type of unit acquired through sensory mechanisms, it is equal to any sequence of occurrences, and it is entirely grounded in a constellation of other cognitive capacities.

Please excuse me for being such a childish philosopher, independence, I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

A unit of knowledge is a variable that does not take equal values. It is a zero dimensional point of interest.*

 

So I have been defending a person not worthy of defence. Great.

 

I probably won't be coming back so do yourself a favor and think for yourself and look for the answers based on your own life's experience.

 

 

This doesn't strike me as the message of a poster with relevant statistics to hand. "Listen guys, I have a new formula for analysis in Political Science and Economics... take your life experiences, n = 1, and extrapolate your own conclusion. It's like Build-A-Bear only more newsworthy."

 

He was attempting to make what he thought was a witty insult. 'Cunning linguist' is word play for cunnilingus

 

 

Hm, I had not heard of this before. I think it's time to let Popcorn and TeaParty get on with it, I do not respect the approach taken by either of them.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I'm just saying that we should have either 1) some extra money in our pockets, 2) some additional incentive to be productive (at least theoretically) without the need to have a job because those are vanishing very rapidly now a days, 3) a monetary system that reflects our values, 4) another monetary system on top of the one we have (one that is not based on gold, but based on human experience because after all, that is our most valuable asset), or 5) a complete redefinition of what it means to be "rich" or "poor".

 

Your experience- n = n + 1

[waitforufo]

He was attempting to make what he thought was a witty insult. 'Cunning linguist' is word play for cunnilingus, hence his oyster diving crack. It's childish, insulting, off-topic, and idiotic.

 

People, you are being pranked by Popcorn. Go read his posts in this topic again. His "I have a bachelors degree in philosophy with an emphasis in linguistics" is simply Popcorn seeing how far he can take his prank. Obviously quite far. He had me going for quite a while. My post was simply letting Popcorn know I'm on to him. I thought the rest of you would get that too.

 

According to Popcorn, he is unemployed at least in his field, he thinks he should be paid $50k because he breathes, he needs others to watch TV for him, and he has never attempted to publish his work, but knows others would love to read it.

 

His opener would redistribute wealth by a point system as described by him below.

 

 

This is how the wealth should be distributed.

For every new sequence of evidential thought, tge person gets one more significant point. Treat significant points as dollars. It gives people an incentive to act at least, rather than just allowing ourselves to get sick and be afraid of increasing our debt.

 

Our economy would be much more productive.

 

So he wants the IRS monitoring our thoughts and keeping score? He really thinks the poor are going to get high scores on his "sequence of evidential thought" meter? My guess is the poor spend there time thinking about how they are going to pay their bills and survive. Perhaps he will grant the poor earned evidential thought credits. Oh, I forgot, he solved poverty by granting everone $50k per year for breathing.

 

Popcorn is playing a prank.

 

So I have been defending a person not worthy of defence. Great.

 

One more step and Tridimity will be in on the prank.

 

This topic really should be moved to the Lounge.

 

You got us Popcorn. Good on you. It was a great joke while it lasted.

[Popcorn Sutton]

One of these days you might pull the blinders off your glasses and realize that something needs to be done. I'm doing my part in pointing out the flaws (which are easy to see), giving my experience as evidence, and proposing alternatives that don't have to do with genocide, eugenics, and throwing humans in the trash.

 

I think that we can all agree that technology is quickly making our jobs obsolete and until we get that personal fabricator, we are going to need to seek alternatives.

 

This country was founded on freedom and independence. We've come to the conclusion that freedom is a false premise (in the physical sense), and what we once considered as freedom has vanished or is vanishing very quickly (also thanks to technology). That leaves us with independence. I don't know of a single peer of mine that has it. Theres a problem here and it needs to be addressed.

[waitforufo]

Keep throwing out the prank bait popcorn. You are bound to catch a few more while keeping the others on the line. There are some here that still belive you are serious. Please ride your prank to the bitter end. I'm enjoying it. I couldn't have created a better example of what is wrong with the US than the character you are creating. I believe I have said that more than once in this topic. That is what let me on to your prank. Things that are too good to be true usually are. You just pushed it a bit too far with the cunning linguist bit. You disguised it well. It took me a few days to catch on, but now the cat is out of the bag.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Whatever wfu. Go enjoy your golf and $200 bottle of wine.

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Tridimity, Popcorn and waitforufo,

 

Chill out and stop with the personal comments.

[Endy0816]

Popcorn:

 

You need more saleable skills.

 

I am unsure if what you are saying is true, but if it is then people really aren't going to pay you for what you are willing to do for free.

 

There are all kinds of jobs out there for those who want them.

 

I am personally not putting my knowledge of refrigeration, hydraulics, diesel engines, Oxygen generation, network engineering or coding, to use. I am still however getting payed and could pay off all my debts tomorrow were it of value to do so.

 

I really don't see a lot of effort coming out of you to actually change your situation. Ranting, raving and wishing doesn't amount to much.

 

There are ways to get a paying job and reduce your debt for free. If you don't wish to take advantage of them, then you won't see the change you want.

[waitforufo]

Popcorn:

 

You need more saleable skills.

 

I am unsure if what you are saying is true, but if it is then people really aren't going to pay you for what you are willing to do for free.

 

There are all kinds of jobs out there for those who want them.

 

I am personally not putting my knowledge of refrigeration, hydraulics, diesel engines, Oxygen generation, network engineering or coding, to use. I am still however getting payed and could pay off all my debts tomorrow were it of value to do so.

 

I really don't see a lot of effort coming out of you to actually change your situation. Ranting, raving and wishing doesn't amount to much.

 

There are ways to get a paying job and reduce your debt for free. If you don't wish to take advantage of them, then you won't see the change you want.

Come on people. He is a troll, and a very good one.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I thought about it for a little while and I decided that that is one of the nicest compliments I've ever received lolll. Thanks

Edited October 28, 2013 by Popcorn Sutton

[CaptainPanic]

!

Moderator Note

 

Popcorn and waitforufo,

 

You were both warned to stop writing personal comments and insults. You both failed to do so. Since you were the major contributors in the thread this means we might as well close it.

 

Thread locked.