The english language.

[DevilSolution]

Though culture determines one nation from the next, i.e; Religion, Art, History, Cuisine, Habits etc. Would it not also be fair to catagorize nations by their language?? such that every english speaking country is insolubly english.

 

The language you think in is also the language in which your thoughts will manifest themselves, is it not then the language barrier that distinguishes differences between nations??

 

This means that your ability to communicate would come before your beliefs because with that barrier in place, there is no method inplace for distinguishing the difference.

 

Two nations cannot unite over a belief which they connot express to one another.

Two nations of the same language but different beliefs can unite over language.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited November 11, 2013 by DevilSolution

[CharonY]

Canada seems to be an example where the opposite is true (two languages, one country). Also there is a massive amount of nations in which English is taught as a second language. Should they go into the mix? It also appears to me that you assume that most people are monolingual, which is not the case in many countries.

Language tells us about the history of a nation, but does not in itself necessarily reflect the rules set forth in a country via their constitution. These kind of rules and beliefs are easy enough to translate, if needed.

[DevilSolution]

Well you can be a polyglot and still consciously think in a single language, you simply interpret the second third or fourth language. The language you think in the one which manifests its ideas into reality. I's argue canada is english, though partly french, but ultimately divided. The ability to converse thoroughly in a language distinguishes that countries nationality.

[turionx2]

I've lived both in Italy and Canada for a good part of my life. Understanding both languages and cultures. At the end of the day, most humans think the same regardless of language, culture, etc...

 

 

Two nations cannot unite over a belief which they connot express to one another.

 

True, misunderstanding the language does cause problems but that is do to lazyness of not practicing the language. I've known people who can speak multiple languages fluently yet there is incompetent politicians that have trouble speaking multiple languages.

[DevilSolution]

I've lived both in Italy and Canada for a good part of my life. Understanding both languages and cultures. At the end of the day, most humans think the same regardless of language, culture, etc...

 

 

True, misunderstanding the language does cause problems but that is do to lazyness of not practicing the language. I've known people who can speak multiple languages fluently yet there is incompetent politicians that have trouble speaking multiple languages.

 

I understand what you mean and there can certainly be complacency between multi-lingual people via misinterpretation due to lazyness, however dont forget the logic constructs of language and syntactical meaning behind things is not so clear. Simple idioms can become insults.

 

In a broader sense im talking about the uniting of humans through language and the nationality being defined in them terms.

 

If we dismiss culture as an environmental factor, can we ultimately define nationality as the language you consciously think in??

 

Also can particular languages breed a particular type of science?? the french for example seem to excel at higher level maths while germans seem to excel at engineering, british and americans have made their mark technologically while physics seems to extend over europe....does language dictate what area of science you may excel in????

Edited November 11, 2013 by DevilSolution

[turionx2]

If we dismiss culture as an environmental factor, can we ultimately define nationality as the language you consciously think in??

We could say this to be true for most people but there is people that are an exception to this, those who can think for themselves.

 

Also can particular languages breed a particular type of science?? the french for example seem to excel at higher level maths while germans seem to excel at engineering, british and americans have made their mark technologically while physics seems to extend over europe....does language dictate what area of science you may excel in????

 

Well, maybe it is the education system and/or political system of each country that has effects on the mentality of their citizens?

 

Edit: It could if each language works different parts of the brain. Like a muscle(neurons) doing different exercises(language). Is this what you meant?

Edited November 11, 2013 by turionx2

[DevilSolution]

We could say this to be true for most people but there is people that are an exception to this, those who can think for themselves.

 

 

Well, maybe it is the education system and/or political system of each country that has effects on the mentality of their citizens?

 

Edit: It could if each language works different parts of the brain. Like a muscle(neurons) doing different exercises(language). Is this what you meant?

 

Yes, it is. To some extent the language you think in also superimposes how your brain processes other scientifc data. Maybe?? Im not sure, but there is a pattern.

 

Those who think for themselves become what nationality? Dont forget, you have to communicate with other freethinkers.

Edited November 11, 2013 by DevilSolution

[Ophiolite]

"Britain and America are two nations separated by a common language."

 

This statement, generally, but not convincingly attributed to George Bernard Shaw, belies the OPs argument.

[DevilSolution]

"Britain and America are two nations separated by a common language."

 

This statement, generally, but not convincingly attributed to George Bernard Shaw, belies the OPs argument.

 

Theres nothing seperating us except an ocean, i promise....

 

You may control us economically, but we control what you can think. Well we dont, our united language does.....

Edited November 11, 2013 by DevilSolution

[John Cuthber]

There's a flaw in this whole thread- the idea that we (only) think in a language.

 

As babies we all decided to learn to talk, but we had no language in which to think that.

If we thought in language, no illustrations would be needed in books or on-line- text would do just fine.

Also, how could someone come up with a new idea? They wouldn't have a word for it. So it wouldn't exist in their language so they couldn't think it.

[Delta1212]

There's a flaw in this whole thread- the idea that we (only) think in a language.

 

As babies we all decided to learn to talk, but we had no language in which to think that.

If we thought in language, no illustrations would be needed in books or on-line- text would do just fine.

Also, how could someone come up with a new idea? They wouldn't have a word for it. So it wouldn't exist in their language so they couldn't think it.

Has anyone ever had an idea so novel that it was incapable of being described in pre-existing words?

 

I'm not arguing that we think only in language. Obviously, we don't or we wouldn't have moments when we "know" what word we want to use but can't think of what it is. We can think in concepts without matching them to words. I'm just not sure that "new idea we don't have a word for yet" is the best example of this since many things don't need a one-to-one concept-to-word correlation in order to be expressed in language.

[John Cuthber]

"Has anyone ever had an idea so novel that it was incapable of being described in pre-existing words?"

Clearly yes- language was such an idea, a bit like the baby learning to talk.

The first word couldn't be described in words.

 

When Someone invented the light bulb they didn't call it that. They thought of a hot filament in an evacuated jar.

But the point is that they almost certainly visualised the idea rather than putting the words together and realising that those words described something which would work.

 

There are other reasons to accept that people don't think in a language, or, at least, not always.

 

Together with the fact that there are lots of translators in the world, the OP's idea is, as far as I can see, dead in the water.

[Airbrush]

I believe that children in the USA should be required to learn 2 languages besides English, and one of those languages is of a culture that we may be in conflict with in the future, such as Arabic, Iranian, Russian, and maybe Mandarin.

[Ophiolite]

I believe that children in the USA should be required to learn 2 languages besides English, and one of those languages is of a culture that we may be in conflict with in the future, such as Arabic, Iranian, Russian, and maybe Mandarin.

Based on current politics, I think you'll find any two languages will fit the bill.

[CharonY]

Iranian

 

The official language is Persian, but IIRC only about 50-60% of the population have it as their first language.

[Dekan]

Iranian language

 

I know that US citizens, worthy as they are, have a worldwide reputation for being, how shall one say, self-contained within the USA. That explains why they might think that there's an Iranian language. Or a Brazilian and Argentinian language.

 

But just think - these guys are controlling fleets of nuclear weapons. Should we be scared?

Edited November 16, 2013 by Dekan

[John Cuthber]

In this "and one of those languages is of a culture that we may be in conflict with in the future, such as Arabic, Iranian, Russian, and maybe Mandarin." it's not clear if the word "Iranian" refers to the language, or the culture, and an Iranian culture does exist. Of course tat leads to a problem of finding a Mandarin culture.

[DevilSolution]

Iranian language

 

I know that US citizens, worthy as they are, have a worldwide reputation for being, how shall one say, self-contained within the USA. That explains why they might think that there's an Iranian language. Or a Brazilian and Argentinian language.

 

But just think - these guys are controlling fleets of nuclear weapons. Should we be scared?

 

The citizens might be but their language isnt.

 

"Has anyone ever had an idea so novel that it was incapable of being described in pre-existing words?"

Clearly yes- language was such an idea, a bit like the baby learning to talk.

The first word couldn't be described in words.

 

When Someone invented the light bulb they didn't call it that. They thought of a hot filament in an evacuated jar.

But the point is that they almost certainly visualised the idea rather than putting the words together and realising that those words described something which would work.

 

There are other reasons to accept that people don't think in a language, or, at least, not always.

 

Together with the fact that there are lots of translators in the world, the OP's idea is, as far as I can see, dead in the water.

 

Language is the primary form of commication between all humans, artists draw paintings, photographers take pictures, musicians make music, dancers dance, mathematitians create equations. For one to talk to the other they must use some mutual form of communication, this is language, it is also i presume the root of thoughts, at the minimum its the most effective method of conveying non-communicative thoughts. Emotions for example are not thoughts but a path for which your thoughts will end up manifesting themselves. How would a blind man think?

 

If language is the primary source of thoughts, or how to communicate those thoughts THEN are all english talking nations unsolubly english??

[Ringer]

Iranian language

 

I know that US citizens, worthy as they are, have a worldwide reputation for being, how shall one say, self-contained within the USA. That explains why they might think that there's an Iranian language. Or a Brazilian and Argentinian language.

 

But just think - these guys are controlling fleets of nuclear weapons. Should we be scared?

Well, don't give us in US too much credit. Not only do most not know of Persian, Portuguese, Spanish, Urdu, etc., some call what is spoken here American. As in, 'I speak American'. It's not that most are self contained, its just many are very dumb.

[turionx2]

Yes, it is. To some extent the language you think in also superimposes how your brain processes other scientifc data. Maybe?? Im not sure, but there is a pattern.

 

Those who think for themselves become what nationality? Dont forget, you have to communicate with other freethinkers.

 

Do you mean that language wires the brain a certain way and this wiring affects on how our brains process scientific data?

 

I don't think freethinkers can be tied to a nationality.

 

Maybe nationality and/or national pride is tied to herd mentality?

 

I believe that children in the USA should be required to learn 2 languages besides English, and one of those languages is of a culture that we may be in conflict with in the future, such as Arabic, Iranian, Russian, and maybe Mandarin.

 

What is the reason in learning a language of a supposed future threat to the USA?

[DevilSolution]

Do you mean that language wires the brain a certain way and this wiring affects on how our brains process scientific data?

 

I can see some correlation, not direct but perhaps partially related yes.

[iNow]

I can see some correlation, not direct but perhaps partially related yes.

While it's not clear that language plays a role in ones ability to process scientific data, language very much impacts the organization of the brain and how personalities are expressed.

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingualism

 

 

More interesting articles about language here: http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson

[Airbrush]

What is the reason in learning a language of a supposed future threat to the USA?

So a large portion of the population understands the supposed enemy, and with understanding comes a chance to avoid economic conflict or even war.

[DevilSolution]

So a large portion of the population understands the supposed enemy, and with understanding comes a chance to avoid economic conflict or even war.

 

I second this notion, however i'd still much prefer to learn swedish.

[Airbrush]

I second this notion, however i'd still much prefer to learn swedish.

You can learn Swedish, but you also need to learn a LPC (language of probable conflict) that you may select from the list. Hehehe.