rwjefferson Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 What does liberty mean to you? Our world has never held a universal definition of the Word liberty and patriots everywhere are much in want of one once more again. What is your best and most concise definition of liberty? ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Liberty is "freedom to"; Security is "freedom from." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 If you are serious about thinking about Liberty, I could would not hesitate to recommend I. Berlin "Liberty" (ed Henry Hardy). He explores the essential differences between negative liberties (the freedom from...) and positive (the right to...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 to what; from what Kind and well reasoned responses are always welcome. Please forgive and allow me to rephrase an elemental question. The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. --April 18, 1864 Address at Baltimore def: please define liberty in your best nine words or so What does liberty mean to "you"? rwjefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 In its most unconstrained form it is to do as one wishes without consideration for anyone or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Liberty is target toward which we strive, but at which we never fully arrive. It's context dependent and dynamic and dictated by circumstance. It's an ambiguous, amorphous, and vague concept put forth as some ultimate ideal. It is a fountainhead for those seeking facile descriptions of a deeply complex and nuanced society. It's a concept too often used as a rhetorical bludgeon against others who hold alternative ideologies or competing worldviews. "Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins. ~Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. Edited November 13, 2013 by iNow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallesteino Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The possibility of acting and operating the personal will in direction of what ones think is best for itself in its own social and material sphere, of which limits are law and economical consequences and natural impredictable things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Angel Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 What does Liberty mean to me? Separation of Church and State, and freedom from religious persecution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilSolution Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Liberty is target toward which we strive, but at which we never fully arrive. It's context dependent and dynamic and dictated by circumstance. It's an ambiguous, amorphous, and vague concept put forth as some ultimate ideal. It is a fountainhead for those seeking facile descriptions of a deeply complex and nuanced society. It's a concept too often used as a rhetorical bludgeon against others who hold alternative ideologies or competing worldviews. "Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins. ~Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. Id be at liberty to agree. Your all at liberty to take liberty for liberty's sake. So take it. Edited November 13, 2013 by DevilSolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfy Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 For me, it's localization leading to resilience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 liberty is self constrained by equality def: tyranny unconstrained freedom syn: power corrupts Tyranny is tyranny no matter the Name and liberty is constrained by equality and what else? def: liberty equal and... And what is the most elemental right self retained by all? justice equal for all rw~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) "What does liberty mean to you?" It means the power to choose between two miserable jobs, thinking the one you chose is less miserable than the other, but you were likely mistaken. But in the final analysis you realized that after so much rejection, you took the first job offer to come along and clung to it tenaciously. Edited November 15, 2013 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridimity Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 "What does liberty mean to you?" It means the power to choose between two miserable jobs, thinking the one you chose is less miserable than the other, but you were likely mistaken. But in the final analysis you realized that after so much rejection, you took the first job offer to come along and clung to it tenaciously. Haha, reminds me of this from Drifters on E4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FVWozAnpo8 "I was wondering if I could have my old job back?" "I thought you said it was demoralising, underpaid and humiliating" "It is, and I would like to do it full time" Liberty, in its most absolute sense, is the freedom to do exactly as one pleases. I have often thought that the ideal of liberty is fallacious unless co-existing with the ideal of mutual responsibility - as iNow has highlighted, "Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins." ~Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. We have a mutual responsibility not to encroach on one another's freedoms, which perhaps means that in a sense we are never truly at liberty in the absolute sense of the term, so representing a paradox. Moreover, if it is happiness that one is ultimately seeking, I doubt that liberty alone is sufficient as a means of achieving this objective. A person may be free to flounder in absolute liberty and still fail to achieve happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 license to deny liberty is tyranny by any other Name def: equality mutual responsibility Might mutual responsibility require regulation for best governance? def: liberty peaceful and well regulated pursuit of happiness What else? r~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iota Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) The ability to do as one pleases, without oppression in any form by another person, in the purest sense, I suppose. Due to human nature some regulation is necessary to prevent activities resulting from one individual's liberty, from infringing upon another's. Hence, I guess, as Delta and Imatfaal stated: the difference between being 'free from' and 'free to'. Edited November 17, 2013 by Iota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 to what; from what What if the oppression comes from the self retained rights of "others"? What is the most fundamental right bestowed by existence? ItS liberty and justice equal for all ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npts2020 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Liberty is having no fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Liberty is having no fear.If I'm being held captive and force fed, but do not fear either... Am I still free? According to your definition, I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npts2020 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 If I'm being held captive and force fed, but do not fear either... Am I still free? According to your definition, I am. If you have no fear in that situation (unlikely), you are still liberated, in my opinion. By the same reasoning, if I desire to jump to the moon but am unable to do so, does that mean I do not have liberty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 Freedom from fear is not a fundamental right bestowed by existence and n'either is the right to jump to the moon. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that liberty is not the equal and peaceful and well regulated pursuit of happiness? ~ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npts2020 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Freedom from fear is not a fundamental right bestowed by existence and n'either is the right to jump to the moon. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that liberty is not the equal and peaceful and well regulated pursuit of happiness? ~ron And what makes you think that liberty or any of those other things are a "fundamental right bestowed by existence"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 By the same reasoning, if I desire to jump to the moon but am unable to do so, does that mean I do not have liberty?Correct. That's exactly what it means, at least in terms of your "liberty" to break the laws of physics. You do not have the "liberty" to jump to the moon, but you are free to be liberated from any emotional grief or anguish that inability causes you. And what makes you think that liberty or any of those other things are a "fundamental right bestowed by existence"?Probably his ideology. It's really an opinion, but it appears that it's being treated as if it's some fundamental truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjefferson Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 memory is the second thing to go def: liberty equal and peaceful and well regulated pursuit of happiness def: pursuit of happiness freedom to; freedom from def: patriot one that stands for equal and peaceful and well regulated pursuit of happiness for others def: tyrants those that do not nice sleeves Those marked in denial of equal and peaceful and well-regulated pursuit of happiness do tend to brag a bit too much. And what makes you think pursuit of happiness is not shown by other forms of "intelligent" life? Is it the right of equal or peaceful or well-regulated or even your own freedom to pursue to and from as you might wish do you hereby renounce? ItS liberty and justice equal for all rwjefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danston Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The will to do as I please when I please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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