Quantum Physics is making stupid people, MORE stupid.

[Elite Engineer]

I'm not sure when quantum mechanics caught the interest of the public, and people began "educating" themselves on the subject, but I want nothing more than for it to go away, and never be talked about on televison, or at parties ever again. TV shows like "Through the worm-hole" are literally making ignorant people who have no idea what the hell their talking about, even MORE ignorant.

All the sudden I go to friends houses, or I over hear a conversation that sounds like this "...oh, yeah, but there are infinite universes, and time is infinite so time travel is possible...string theory makes so much sense, its the only quantum theory I believe (real quote)". For the most part (as in 99%) these people are talking straight out of their ass, and they can.b/c you can bullshit your way through a laymen "quantum physics" conversation. There are no "wrong" answers, and there is no heavy calculation or understanding. Of course there is a sequence of logic in it, but isnt all science dictated by logic? Repeating what Morgan Freeman at a cocktail party about time travel makes you look like a total TOOL, no einstein. I honestly don't know a thing about quantum mechanics, and don't care too..I just wish these people would just stfu. I hold a degree in biochemistry, and would lve to talk to people about the synthesis of hemoblogobin. Wy cant people discuss engineering ideas, etc....o but wait, people can't bullshit their way through a discussion like that, because that takes deep understanding, calculation, hard applications oh chemistry and biology..instead people waste their breath talking about how infinite the univerise is. These people are not increasing their IQ, their sitting stagant in a pond of ignorance sinking deeper, not applying any critical thinking or logic in their lives..just mere parrots at best.

 

-your thoughts?

 

~ee

[imatfaal]

...

 

-your thoughts?

 

~ee

Because I am an old pedant with nothing better to do; my thoughts are that one should learn to spell and be sure of the meaning of words before launching into a polemic concerning the ignorance of others.

 

Substantively, I think that as long as people stay away from Deepak Chopra et al. then any pursuit of learning or understanding is a good thing. Although, to be honest, when faced with the sort of people you describe I tend to launch straight into questions from my quantum computation course in order to watch the panic in their eyes

[Bill Angel]

I honestly don't know a thing about quantum mechanics, and don't care too..I just wish these people would just stfu. I hold a degree in biochemistry, and would lve to talk to people about the synthesis of hemoblogobin. Wy cant people discuss engineering ideas, etc...

-your thoughts?

~ee

There are quite a few excellent books that have come out recently explaining the basic ideas of quantum mechanics without resorting to the use of sophisticated mathematics. Not only are such works interesting, even a pleasure to read, but they provide ammunition to those familiar with their basic arguments to rebut those goofy ideas people pick up from TV shows and science fiction movies.

[EdEarl]

I'm not sure when quantum mechanics caught the interest of the public, and people began "educating" themselves on the subject, but I want nothing more than for it to go away, and never be talked about on televison, or at parties ever again. TV shows like "Through the worm-hole" are literally making ignorant people who have no idea what the hell their talking about, even MORE ignorant.

....

Is your rail a complaint about quantum mechanics in particular or about the way people latch onto fad ideas? IMO your statements are also appropriate for other subjects, for example:

 

I'm not sure when UFOs caught the interest of the public, and people began "educating" themselves on the subject, but I want nothing more than for it to go away, and never be talked about on television, or at parties ever again. TV shows like "Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Sightings" are literally making ignorant people who have no idea what the hell their talking about, even MORE ignorant.

[Elite Engineer]

 

 

I'm not sure when UFOs caught the interest of the public, and people began "educating" themselves on the subject, but I want nothing more than for it to go away, and never be talked about on television, or at parties ever again. TV shows like "Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Sightings" are literally making ignorant people who have no idea what the hell their talking about, even MORE ignorant.

Yes, its along the same lines of UFO's. All the sudden there are "UFO edperts" and people "educate" themselves about the "science" of UFO's, even though there is no education, or thinking involved. In the now and present its that whole quantum sciencey stuff that people brag about like they went to MIT, and have no idea what their talking about. Glad to see there is somone who understands what I'm saying.

Although, to be honest, when faced with the sort of people you describe I tend to launch straight into questions from my quantum computation course in order to watch the panic in their eyes

I've tried politely discussing these quantum theories with my friends, and bring notice to some inconsistencies that they're saying. Once I say something they dont want to hear they just blurt out something like "...there are infinite universes so it could still happen". I sit there thinking, you have no idea what you're really saying, but you're going to say abunch of fancy science lingo and "sound" smart.

[swansont]

I doubt this is anything new; it's not like people have never pontificated on things they don't understand (but think they do) before this.

[rideforever]

Elite Engineer ... so what you are saying is that you don't know a thing about Quantum Physics but you want to condemn people who take an interest in it at some level and that you are labelling them "stupid".

 

Do you want consoling ?

I recommend to you that instead of seeking consoling you try to listen and communicate with these people (who seem to be your "friends"), and that you take an interest in QP and start learning about it.

And if not, just be quiet.

[Sensei]

Although, to be honest, when faced with the sort of people you describe I tend to launch straight into questions from my quantum computation course in order to watch the panic in their eyes

 

Once I was arguing with such guy in night club while drinking about quantity of protons in Carbon and Oxygen...

 

When I wrote half of periodic table on piece of paper, element by element, he had to agree with me..

H,He,Li,Be,B,C,N,O,F,Ne,Na,Mg,Al,Si,P,S,Cl,Ar,K,Ca,Sc,Ti,V,Cr,Mn,Fe,Co,Ni,Cu,Zn,Ga,Ge,As,Se,Br,Kr

Edited April 28, 2015 by Sensei

[Mordred]

 

Once I was arguing with such guy in night club while drinking about quantity of protons in Carbon and Oxygen...

 

When I wrote half of periodic table on piece of paper, element by element, he had to agree with me..

H,He,Li,Be,B,C,N,O,F,Ne,Na,Mg,Al,Si,P,S,Cl,Ar,K,Ca,Sc,Ti,V,Cr,Mn,Fe,Co,Ni,Cu,Zn,Ga,Ge,As,Se,Br,Kr

Roflmao sounds like some of the beer conversions I've had describing thermodynamic processes in BB nucleosynthesis.

[ajb]

Not that it is quantum physics, but last time I was out in Warsaw one guy was asking me about the Riemann hypothesis. He was surprised that anyone in the pub has a clue what he was talking about! The conjecture was that it was just us two that knew anything about this. Okay, the link to quantum physics is via Berry and alike who think that the Riemann hypothesis could be solved by looking at the spectra of certain operators. It maybe possible one day to experimentally test the hypothesis.

 

On another anecdote, last time I was out in Warsaw with my brother we bumped into a guy who claimed he was a mathematician from Oxford. He tried to impress us with this and sadly lost when it turns out he was only an undergraduate there several years before. He quickly left when I explained why I was in Warsaw. The moral is if you are going to start a big d*ck competition they you better make sure you are well hung.

[Phi for All]

For the most part (as in 99%) these people are talking straight out of their ass, and they can.b/c you can bullshit your way through a laymen "quantum physics" conversation. There are no "wrong" answers, and there is no heavy calculation or understanding. Of course there is a sequence of logic in it, but isnt all science dictated by logic?

 

I'm seeing that it's partially the misuse of the term "logic". Many of those people think logic is when things make sense to them. They think that if something they say seems perfectly understandable, they must be doing science.

 

But I think the bigger culprit is that most of these people have reached whatever conclusions they've reached via their emotions, rather than reason (which is what they think of as logic). If this type of person hears something that gives them a "gut feeling", they'll use "intuition" to extrapolate based on unsound methods. And once they reach a conclusion in this manner, it's very difficult to persuade them it's wrong. You can't use reason, because it just "feels right", and that carries more weight in these people's minds.

 

If you use reason and rational thinking to examine a phenomenon, and gather evidence on which to base conclusions, you'll be much more likely to understand what's going on. And when better data comes along that trumps your explanation, you'll be in a better position to understand that, too, and change your ideas accordingly.

[imatfaal]

 

Once I was arguing with such guy in night club while drinking about quantity of protons in Carbon and Oxygen...

 

When I wrote half of periodic table on piece of paper, element by element, he had to agree with me..

H,He,Li,Be,B,C,N,O,F,Ne,Na,Mg,Al,Si,P,S,Cl,Ar,K,Ca,Sc,Ti,V,Cr,Mn,Fe,Co,Ni,Cu,Zn,Ga,Ge,As,Se,Br,Kr

 

Hopefully in groups and periods

[Greg H.]

I like to quietly snicker at these people at parties until they ask me why I'm laughing and then say "Oh, it's nothing."

 

I feel no need to educate the ridiculous.

[swansont]

 

I'm seeing that it's partially the misuse of the term "logic". Many of those people think logic is when things make sense to them. They think that if something they say seems perfectly understandable, they must be doing science.

 

And if course the problem with that is that even failed theories were logical and people were happy with them — right up until they were contradicted by experiment.

[Phi for All]

 

And if course the problem with that is that even failed theories were logical and people were happy with them — right up until they were contradicted by experiment.

 

And a scientist would better be able to realize the failure because the theory was put together rationally (even though it turned out wrong), so evidence that refutes it is viewed equally rationally. In reviewing the methodology, emotions are detrimental to rigorous work.

 

Those who don't have the education but "study QM on their own" have emotionally invested in their own understanding. They've probably had some blinding insights based on their marvelous ability to intuit complex mathematics (to the point where they don't need them at all!). They can't follow the reasonable bread-crumb trail because they've been busy leaping joyously to their own conclusions. Their "theories" aren't a map telling others how to get there; instead they're a story with inadequate references about how you might arrive if you felt exactly the way they do about it.

[Mordred]

Lol emotions and logic never equate well. Try talking science to my wife. Especially since I had a few.

 

"Why are you so interested in this space, universe stuff, you will never go there ?"

 

reply " I am already there"

 

She still doesn't get it lol

(PS she has no prob spending the money from my skills lol)

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mordred

[MigL]

I'm sure she's a very lovely and understanding woman, Mordred.

 

After all, she doesn't complain about you having you nose stuck in a book or computer screen all day, and not helping with the chores or cooking, does she ?

[Mordred]

Lol I'm careful to study when she is busy. As well as help out

[michel123456]

Because I am an old pedant with nothing better to do; (...)

I had the impression that you were young

[Phi for All]

I had the impression that you were young

 

No, no. Young people tend to drink a lot, spend a lot of time on the computer, and ride bicycles.

[andrewcellini]

 

No, no. Young people tend to drink a lot, spend a lot of time on the computer, and ride bicycles.

hey hey hey

 

i don't have a bicycle

-your thoughts?

 

~ee

i've come across this and did it myself. i blame watching the universe and through the wormhole without looking up anything to get a better picture (at least in my case lol). it is much easier to watch an hour long video or read a short article and think you understand all of quantum mechanics than to actually try to learn some of quantum mechanics, and i think is goes for just about anything in science (and possibly other fields of study).

 

i just heard a quote from lawrence krauss that i think fits, "people get inspired by physics even if they get it wrong, and there's nothing wrong with that."

Edited May 4, 2015 by andrewcellini

[swansont]

hey hey hey

 

i don't have a bicycle

i've come across this and did it myself. i blame watching the universe and through the wormhole without looking up anything to get a better picture (at least in my case lol). it is much easier to watch an hour long video or read a short article and think you understand all of quantum mechanics than to actually try to learn some of quantum mechanics, and i think is goes for just about anything in science (and possibly other fields of study).

 

 

It's the difference between learning physics (or whatever) or learning about physics. But then I suspect it's true of a lot of professions outside of STEM fields, too.

[conway]

It could be that I am one of these plp.

 

 

"law of superposition", "law of entanglement", "law of the observer"....double slit experiment.

 

This is almost the collection of my QM education. I do accept them as truths. Then if I make other philosophical assertions on the premise that these are true. It then does not mean that I am unfavorably using QM to my "social" advantage despite having no degree therein. Whether my assertions are wrong on right is a another matter. But I would presume that even scientist make "philosophical assertions" based on their own findings. Even though I suppose this is contradictory to being a scientist. I would think one could do both. One just needs to be ready to change their viewpoint when obvious contradictions arise.

Edited June 8, 2015 by conway

[BR-549]

What if Mr. Ampere was right?

What if current elements are very tiny loops of current?

Only instead of current, the loop is a continuous loop of charge?

And that charge is rotating with the velocity of charge, c?

And what if that rotation c, which Weber defined as the speed of charge(NOT the speed of light), generated a magnetic field and pinch effect strong enough(equal and in balanced) to counter the self-repulsiveness of the charge?

This alone would count for charge, magnetic moment, angular momentum, Inertia(the rotational resonance of the electric and magnetic).

This model has been used several times thru history.

But it left two problems.

How does the charge change power levels and how does it emit?

After farther study it was found that the loop is not a loop.

It's like the stripe on a hula hoop. It's a circular helix.

The n number of a particle is the pitch, or number of turns in the helix.

Think about this for a minute gentlemen.

With just two radii, we have constructed a Stable particle.

The first radius R, is the main ring radius. The second radius r, is the helix radius, much, much smaller than R.

r is on the end of R and perpendicular to it.

How can we add energy if the ring has to rotate at constant c?

Because the ring has circumference, the ring has a RPM.

When we add anther turn to the helix(energy), the ring circumference decreases and the RPM goes up.

The increase in energy goes to increased angular momentum(mass) and increased rotational resonance(inertia).

The angular momentum and the rotational resonance can only be stable at certain radii.

These radii must have a logarithmic relationship of 1/137.

This is why only certain circumferences and energy levels are stable. The quantum effect.

When a particle gives up a turn....the particle emits a rf pulse equal to the difference in angular momentum between the RPM difference.

I believe our answers will follow this direction.

I'll bet that there is no magic.......just cause.

[Harold Squared]

Because I am an old pedant with nothing better to do; my thoughts are that one should learn to spell and be sure of the meaning of words before launching into a polemic concerning the ignorance of others.

 

Substantively, I think that as long as people stay away from Deepak Chopra et al. then any pursuit of learning or understanding is a good thing. Although, to be honest, when faced with the sort of people you describe I tend to launch straight into questions from my quantum computation course in order to watch the panic in their eyes

Brilliant! But the OP has a point. My favorite Chopraism, asked if he was a "guru", replied "Spell it." So of course, "Gee, you are you."

 

That is about as profound as he will ever get, I expect.

 

My pet peeve is "What the Bleep Do We Know?" Not a whole lot, it would seem.