maximum knowledge memory

[toolman]

hi,

 

is there a maximum the brain can remember in terms of knowledge?

[timo]

Given the brain has finite size and assuming there is a finite ammount of information a single cell (or a neuron or whatever stores data) can store I´d say yes.

[Nevermore]

However, all humans have roughly the same sized brains, and some can remember more than others, so I'd say that the maximum amount of info a cell can hold has not been reached yet, or that it's infanite.

[Phi for All]

is there a maximum the brain can remember in terms of knowledge?

You're looking to put a quantitative measure (maximum) to an unquantifiable concept (knowledge). There is no way to immediately test whether or not your most recent piece of knowledge displaced some piece learned at an earlier point in life. Is this what you're getting at, or were you asking if anyone has ever reached maximum and then been unable to learn a single thing more?

 

There is also no storage unit of measurement for the brain that I know of. Bytes work for computer storage, but not for the brain. There are intelligence quotients and memory quotients, but no encapsulating knowledge quotients that take everything into account.

[coquina]

Sometimes in conversation, someone will ask me something I can't recall, for example, listening to an "oldie" on the radio, who sang that"?

 

This has happened time and time again. I'll say, "I don't remember." and the conversation will move on. A few minutes (or maybe hours) later, the name of the vocalist will pop into my brain. I will then blurt out the name, in the middle of someone elses conversation - which is rude and embarassing, but it's not me - it's the curator of my brain who I refer to as the "brain elf"

 

While my active brain is carrying on the current conversation, the elf is rooting through the archives, until he comes up with an answer, ie who sang "These Boots Were Made For Walkin'"? Nancy Sinatra!!!

 

So - there is a lot of "stuff" that is probably useless information, stored in the corners and recesses of your brain - you think you've forgotten it, but if the need arises, you can reach back into the archives, retrieve it, dust it off and use it.

[Ophiolite]

hi' date='

 

is there a maximum the brain can remember in terms of knowledge?[/quote']

I used to know the answer to this, but I've forgotten.

[Newtonian]

hi' date='

 

is there a maximum the brain can remember in terms of knowledge?[/quote']

Yes,that is why the brain constantly stores and updates important information.And throws the umimportant junk in the recycle bin.Think of it has an HD with a smaller partition(long/short-term memory).And sleep as de-fragging:-)

How many GB's of space there is,we dont know.But taking the view ,that we do not recall every single detail of our lives.One can presume it has a limit.

[Glider]

Theoretically, no, there is no limit to the information we can store. There used to be something called 'the leaky bucket theory', which proposed that memories were eroded over time. This was joined by the 'interference theory' which posited that older memories were 'overwritten' by newer, more salient memories.

 

However, Wilder Penfied (Canadian brain surgeon), whilst stimulating areas of the brains of patients with a microelectrode found that in certain areas of the temporal lobes, this stimulation would elicit clear memories of entire conversations and other things like songs, that the patients had heard as children, but had subsequently 'forgotten'.

 

The predominant belief now is that once we have encoded a memory, it stays. If we can't remember it at a later date, it's not that the memory has gone, it's that the traces to the memory have gone. It's a failure of recall rather than memory (these are different processes). If we are later exposed to something that links to the memory, it often returns; information that we thought we had forgotten can suddenly pop into our minds.

[Kygron]

Is there any rule that says that one memory is "overwritten" it must take on the latter value? I'm getting a vague idea that maybe a group of neurons can remember many different things depending on the "context" or "frame of mind" or something else like that.

[Glider]

No such rule that I am aware of. Memories are not 'overwritten' in the strict sense of the term, although they can be radicly altered by a number of factors not directly to do with the events being remembered.

[[Tycho?]]

We simply do not know enough about the brain to answer these sort of questions. Its obviously finite, but to what extent is anyone's guess.

[Glider]

Why is it obviously finite?

[Kygron]

Why is it obviously finite?

 

He probably means that there's a quantom mechanical limit to the amount of information that can be stored within a fixed volume. Of course to me, when talking about the brain, a storage capacity of 10 lifetimes would be infinite

 

I think the spirit of this thread is more: What fraction of the entire data, along with all the intermediate mental processing, of a person's lifetime can the brain store?

 

Since I'm thinking about it, I'll propose another: What fraction of the complete store of knowedge available is able to be accessed and processed durring any one period of time? Simmilarly, how much knowledge must be archived (for a different thinking session), in order for the most usefull information to be readilly available?

 

Ooh! Another! : What fraction of total memory can be accessed "instantaneously" (by that I mean, within a reasonable amount of time as apposed to an hour later when you have to go back and figure out why you wanted the memory in the first place).

 

 

Edit: These last two are not the same, the first deals with "efficient thinking" and the second with "memory accessability". I'm posting this edit because apon re-reading I thought I had repeated myself!

[albertlee]

As Glided said, there is no limit in memory... so if some one has a good memory, it actually means his/her brain can keep the traces longer than ordinary people....

 

but does that indicate our brain's intellegence???

 

or what makes some one more intellegent in terms of their brain??

 

Albert

[Glider]

He probably means that there's a quantom mechanical limit to the amount of information that can be stored within a fixed volume. Of course to me, when talking about the brain, a storage capacity of 10 lifetimes would be infinite

True, but do memories take up volume? Do data take up physical volume in a memory chip, or does it simply alter the state of the existing media?

 

In the brain, similar to chips, memories change the state of the media and so do not take up volume. Further, in the brain, the media is plastic. Learning involves physical as well as chemical changes, so the capacity changes as we learn. Moreover, each individual neuron can 'store' information pertaining to many, many different memories. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you have storage media that expands as you try to fill it.

[Kygron]

Before I go on I thought I'd mention a book I read recently. "On Intellegenge", http://www.OnIntelligence.org. It formed the basis of my current thinking about our brain. Since reading it i've expanded my model quite a bit.

 

In the brain, similar to chips, memories change the state of the media and so do not take up volume. Further, in the brain, the media is plastic. Learning involves physical as well as chemical changes, so the capacity changes as we learn. Moreover, each individual neuron can 'store' information pertaining to many, many different memories. Therefore, for all practical purposes, you have storage media that expands as you try to fill it.

 

For the most part I agree, this should have been said (and it was many times ), but then we should have moved on. That's why I posted several questions. But since you've brought it up again, I'll explain why I think it's not as important for the topic.

 

Consider digital video. 2-4 hour on a DVD, but that's highly compressed data and the screen barely takes up the same field of view as your eyes have. How many hours in a human lifetime? how much video data is this? I would NEVER believe you if you said our brain can store it all. But you don't remember it all! That's why it's useless outside of CompSci. Look closely at something right now. You'll see a detail that you've never noticed before. Are you telling me that if you imagined that thing and concentrated on it that you would have noticed the detail in the image in your mind.... thirty years later?

 

Our brain doesn't work like a video camera. It compresses all the data it gets. You remember, "that's a door", and "my door is green", and "it's got such-and-such a design", but you don't remember the image of the door. Later when you recall the image, your mind creates a new one as a composite of all these values.

 

Some memories ARE nearly "pixel-perfect" but those are usually the ones that you've seen many times before and each time saw a new detail.

 

When you aren't paying attention to details, you don't remember them. People can get lost in a city because "all the streets look the same!" when in reality there're big differences.

 

Excuse me for rambling, what I'm trying to say is that the brain has a very limited image memory, BUT it's quite efficient and is able to make excellent use of it for common situations. We've determined that the brain has a limited amount of neurons. We've determined that the brain can remember a surprizing amount of information. Instead of trying to force those two determinations together, let's focus on HOW it happens. The brain has a very efficient data-compression mechinism.

 

Is it enough? Do you remember archived memories with the same clarity as yesterday's memories? Does the mechinism ever fail? Can it be improved? How complex is it? Is it the same for every person?

 

see? More new questions!!!