Have compassion without morality?

[turionx2]

Can a person "say" they have compassion while lacking morality?

[iNow]

Of course. I can say I have a vagina while lacking two X chromosomes, too. People can say all kinds of untrue things. Also, morality is specific to the location or tribe or culture... not some universal set of truths... so that's another massive loophole.

[turionx2]

I mean't to ask if these people that say untrue things are infact lacking morality?

 

The morality of the tribe, the law, was written by an individual or a group of people at one point and is revised when needed. So morality of the tribe is derived from personal morality.

 

If certain people lack personal morality, can we equally say that they lack compassion?

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_(personal_and_cultural)

Edited December 8, 2013 by turionx2

[iNow]

Wouldn't it be more compassionate to lie to a child about their dog dying a painful death from cancer? This seems like a quick example off the top of my head where saying an untrue thing implies greater compassion and morality, not less.

[turionx2]

And what lie would that be?

 

A lie will cause cognitive dissonance for the child when they are older. I don't see how telling a lie is compassionate.

Edited December 8, 2013 by turionx2

[iNow]

That doesn't mean it's not.

[turionx2]

It isn't compassion. Its deception. You lie to the child so he doesn't feel emotional pain, true, but in reality you tell a lie to feel good about yourself.

 

I'd rather tell the truth to the child, tell him/her calmly why cancer happens and that death is normal. Offer emotional support if it is required in the coming months and keep the child physically active so he/she learns to overcome problems in life.

 

Death is only wrong because society deems death as wrong.

 

So morality is required to have compassion and it seems like a lot of fake compassion occurs in society.

Edited December 8, 2013 by turionx2

[dimreepr]

Lying to children isn't deception and isn't entirely about shielding the child emotionally but is a necessary part of it's education; each subsequent lie is an additional layer of knowledge that leads to understanding.

[turionx2]

Understanding what? That lying is ok?

[John Cuthber]

Lying to children isn't deception

Yes it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception

It may be lots of other things, some of those may be worthy and good, but it is deceit.

In the end the kid's dog's still dead.

[dimreepr]

Well, true in the literal sense but our educational system would be lost without such lies, whether parental or state; you don't explain QM without simplifying and to simplify is to lie in one way or another.

[Phi for All]

I stole your heroin because i'm afraid you'll overdose. Am I compassionate or immoral?

[iNow]

I hope folks will not focus entirely on the (admittedly poor) example I gave, and will instead recognize the core point. There is a flawed assumption in the OPs definition of morality. That's what I'm trying to illuminate.

[turionx2]

I hope folks will not focus entirely on the (admittedly poor) example I gave, and will instead recognize the core point. There is a flawed assumption in the OPs definition of morality. That's what I'm trying to illuminate.

Can a person "say" they have(or express) compassion while lacking morality?

^Edit.

 

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I was trying to ask and took every word literally.

I stole your heroin because i'm afraid you'll overdose. Am I compassionate or immoral?

Since addiction is wrong, its self-abuse, your act would be considered compassionate if you also support the addict through the withdrawal phase.

Well, true in the literal sense but our educational system would be lost without such lies, whether parental or state; you don't explain QM without simplifying and to simplify is to lie in one way or another.

Why do you have to simplify QM to explain it? Is it because the majority cannot grasp the complexitity of QM?

Edited December 8, 2013 by turionx2

[DevilSolution]

Can a person "say" they have compassion while lacking morality?

 

You can do the right thing for the wrong reasons and the wrong thing for the right reasons...

[turionx2]

 

You can do the right thing for the wrong reasons and the wrong thing for the right reasons...

Examples?

[John Cuthber]

Well, true in the literal sense but our educational system would be lost without such lies, whether parental or state; you don't explain QM without simplifying and to simplify is to lie in one way or another.

I could explain that QM is really rather complicated but that I would explain a simplified version to them.

That does not require dishonesty.

 

Religion would be lost without those lies, and I don't think our members of parliament would just have been awarded a pay rise of 11% without such lies.

[Phi for All]

Since addiction is wrong, its self-abuse, your act would be considered compassionate if you also support the addict through the withdrawal phase.

 

There's no addiction, no withdrawal. You wanted to experiment with heroin for the first time, I was worried you'd hurt yourself so I stole it when you weren't looking. Am I compassionate, or am I a thief?

 

Separate question, let's say our culture is Peruvian and it's our ritual mushrooms instead of heroin, but my concerns remain the same about you. Did anything change morally? Compassionately?

[DevilSolution]

Examples?

 

Investing in stocks for personal gain (right things for the wrong reason) or i could save the 10 people and let the 1 die (wrong things for the right reason) etc etc

[turionx2]

 

There's no addiction, no withdrawal. You wanted to experiment with heroin for the first time, I was worried you'd hurt yourself so I stole it when you weren't looking. Am I compassionate, or am I a thief?

Shifting the goal post, regardless, its still a form of self-abuse.

 

Your compassionate unless you're lying and plan to use the heroin later on.

 

Separate question, let's say our culture is Peruvian and it's our ritual mushrooms instead of heroin, but my concerns remain the same about you. Did anything change morally? Compassionately?

I understand your point and I don't agree with it. The made up morals of the Peruvian society would indicate that its ok to use the ritual mushrooms however my personal morals say its a form of quick reward self-abuse which can lead to dependence.

 

 

Investing in stocks for personal gain (right things for the wrong reason) or i could save the 10 people and let the 1 die (wrong things for the right reason) etc etc

Nice illusion.

 

What is the right reason for investing in stocks?

 

Where does it say that death is wrong?

[Phi for All]

Shifting the goal post, regardless, its still a form of self-abuse.

 

Your compassionate unless you're lying and plan to use the heroin later on.

I'm not shifting any goal posts. You asked if one could be moral without compassion, or compassionate without morals. I'm setting up a situation to show how one could do so.

 

I understand your point and I don't agree with it. The made up morals of the Peruvian society would indicate that its ok to use the ritual mushrooms however my personal morals say its a form of quick reward self-abuse which can lead to dependence.

 

You admitted earlier that morals are made up by the society. If you can't follow the morals of the Peruvian society we both grew up in, how can we view you as a compassionate Peruvian? You sound like someone who is making a moral judgement that lacks all compassion.

 

 

[DevilSolution]

Shifting the goal post, regardless, its still a form of self-abuse.

 

Your compassionate unless you're lying and plan to use the heroin later on.

 

 

I understand your point and I don't agree with it. The made up morals of the Peruvian society would indicate that its ok to use the ritual mushrooms however my personal morals say its a form of quick reward self-abuse which can lead to dependence.

 

 

Nice illusion.

 

What is the right reason for investing in stocks?

 

Where does it say that death is wrong?

 

I think its best we get YOUR definition of morality and compassion before we can go any further ......

[Nota_Bene]

Isn't compassion one of the foundations of morality?

[turionx2]

 

I think its best we get YOUR definition of morality and compassion before we can go any further ......

 

The definitions on the internet suffice. Please don't confuse empathy/sympathy with compassion.

 

Isn't compassion one of the foundations of morality?

 

Thank you.