What happens after death?

[Popcorn Sutton]

I thought that this question would be interesting to post on these forums. I was raised to be Christian, but approximately two years after I started looking into science, I abandoned that commitment. I don't want this thread to be religious in any way, I want to hear purely scientific and philosophical insights that have a basis in physics, neuroscience, and cognitive science in particular. I do not intend for this thread to be speculative in any way. I'm posting in the hopes that I may obtain new insight on this topic and share my understanding of this topic as well.

 

That being said, I have thought of this extensively. In the following thread, I will refer to so called "spiritual experiences" such as OBE's (out body experiences), Astral Projection, and psychic phenomena such as clairvoyance, communicating with the dead, and ESP. I'm going to try and provide a basis for these phenomena in terms of physics, neuroscience, and cognitive science.

 

The thing about this life is that I cannot access information that occurred prior to my birth (at least knowingly). A suicidal friend of mine once said, "death is probably just like before you were born. Nothing." I was shocked at first to hear this, mostly because of my religious beliefs at the time and because I used my beliefs to try and convince him that he had to find faith before he died or else he would go to hell. I was young at that point, so making reference to this is irrelevant to the person I am now. After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that death probably is, at least in some ways, just like before you were born. I think that the difference I would like to point out is that even before you were born, for a very long time before you were born, you were at least partially embodied. I say this on the grounds of evolution. A persuasive argument for this conclusion was said something like this, "[statistically speaking, you are 1 person made from 2, those 2 were made from 4, those 4 were made by 8. Every generation you go back, you'll see that you existed as 1/n^n.]" I would cite an article or a thread that I've heard this from, but I can't think of where I can find it at the moment.

 

I believe in the Quantum Mind, meaning that our thoughts are embodied structurally by atoms and molecules. These atoms and molecules become conscious in a linear aspect, but also emergent (not entirely conscious) in a hierarchical aspect, because of what I like to call quantum prompting. Quantum prompting is just a type of quantum entanglement dealing with information. Our senses receive input and solidifies it in some way so it can be accessed for future events. This information is equivalent to itself, obviously. So when this information gets prompted, it is prompted in all locations that it exists simultaneously (Quantum Entanglement) because it also exists in superposition. Based on these assumptions, I can safely conclude one of the major points of this thread, the point is that our (physical) minds are both embodied and disembodied simultaneously. Any equivalent information that exists within ourselves at this point in time could have easily existed years before we, as our current selves, came to walk the planet. Therefor, our existence outspans what we commonly call life (in the sense that we only have it from birth to death). As a further conclusion, OBE's are also, in fact, real experiences. (The same can be said of astral projection).

 

I've come to the conclusion, over the past few days, that time is, in fact, experience itself. I have a good degree of confidence that this point is going to be very hard to argue for a very long time. This conclusion was based on a thought experiment about language I said in another thread here. I imagined, what if we not only had eyelids and earlids that function simultaneously with the same result, what if all of our senses had "lids" that functioned simultaneously with the same result? My conclusion is that we would be not be able to distinguish any sensory information from any other type of sensory information. All information would be audio-visual-olfactory-gustatory-kinesthetic information in one package. We would simply blink into this information and blink out of it. Well, under these assumptions, if we did not have time, we would not have experience, and from a mental perspective, it can be said the same way vice-versa and still be valid. This argument has validation from quantum physics mostly, in the sense that observation affects reality. Using this argument, I can give even further validation for OBE's to be true by saying that our consciousness can exist both within our embodied minds and without our embodied minds. Consciousness can exist inside and outside of our bodies (but I believe that it can only do so in a linear fashion).

 

Well, if our basic components exist in superposition, who's to say that they won't continue to get prompted even after death. Furthermore, who's to say that they weren't prompted before our life? Who's to say that they weren't prompted and couldn't be prompted before, during, and after our life simultaneously? This lends credence for clairvoyance.

 

I'm not even going to mention telepathy, I hate it honestly.

Also, here is an excerpt from one of my previous trolls.

 

 

Id like to take this time to document a strange occurrence. Could be coincidence, however I like to remain open minded to the possibility now that new evidence has shown that the future can, in fact, affect the present.

Yesterday, I found myself enjoying a friends company while watching a game of Jeapordy. Everyone was playing the game, it was flowing smoothly like a game of Jeapordy usually does. I noticed one of the guys trying to play strategically instead of intelligently. He pulled up a question, got a sinister smile on his face, then answered a question wrong. To this, I laughed and called him a vulgar name (d***head). In this moment, it was as if I was actually there calling the man a vulgar name to his face. He reacted to it. I thought to myself, ok that's strange, but upon further analysis, I pondered the possibility of an actual communication that occurred free of time. These coincidences occur often enough for me to question the validity of linguistic intemporality. Test this theory for yourself by saying something to someone who was recorded in some way while you see/hear them. See if they respond in some way. We should stay open minded to the possibility.

Strange happenings.

[imatfaal]

I thought that this question would be interesting to post on these forums. I was raised to be Christian, but approximately two years after I started looking into science, I abandoned that commitment. I don't want this thread to be religious in any way, I want to hear purely scientific and philosophical insights that have a basis in physics, neuroscience, and cognitive science in particular. I do not intend for this thread to be speculative in any way. I'm posting in the hopes that I may obtain new insight on this topic and share my understanding of this topic as well.

Your title presupposes that something happens - and that you wish to investigate what that something is. Try look at it like this - in the absence of evidence we assume nothing happens, is there any evidence or can I put together an observation that will provide evidence that this alternative hypothesis is more likely than the null boring nothing happens hypothesis

That being said, I have thought of this extensively. In the following thread, I will refer to so called "spiritual experiences" such as OBE's (out body experiences), Astral Projection, and psychic phenomena such as clairvoyance, communicating with the dead, and ESP. I'm going to try and provide a basis for these phenomena in terms of physics, neuroscience, and cognitive science.

Again argument for existence should preceed discussion of method

The thing about this life is that I cannot access information that occurred prior to my birth (at least knowingly). A suicidal friend of mine once said, "death is probably just like before you were born. Nothing." I was shocked at first to hear this, mostly because of my religious beliefs at the time and because I used my beliefs to try and convince him that he had to find faith before he died or else he would go to hell. I was young at that point, so making reference to this is irrelevant to the person I am now. After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that death probably is, at least in some ways, just like before you were born. I think that the difference I would like to point out is that even before you were born, for a very long time before you were born, you were at least partially embodied. I say this on the grounds of evolution. A persuasive argument for this conclusion was said something like this, "[statistically speaking, you are 1 person made from 2, those 2 were made from 4, those 4 were made by 8. Every generation you go back, you'll see that you existed as 1/n^n.]" I would cite an article or a thread that I've heard this from, but I can't think of where I can find it at the moment.

close - but you have missed some maths and some genetics. Mathematically that form of series would soon top the entire number of human that have ever existed; it is highly unlikely that you do not have ancestors within a handfull of generations who fill more than one space on that form of tree - because my parents come from two smallish communities (Northumberland fishing villagers and Irish immigrant silk-weavers) there are loops all over my family tree (explains the webbed toes I guess). If you go back a decent number of generations it is more likely than not that we share the majority of ancestors. Genetically a lot of the genes - especially specialised genetic material in the female line is unchanged and has practically always existed.

I believe in the Quantum Mind, meaning that our thoughts are embodied structurally by atoms and molecules. These atoms and molecules become conscious in a linear aspect, but also emergent (not entirely conscious) in a hierarchical aspect, because of what I like to call quantum prompting. Quantum prompting is just a type of quantum entanglement dealing with information. Our senses receive input and solidifies it in some way so it can be accessed for future events. This information is equivalent to itself, obviously. So when this information gets prompted, it is prompted in all locations that it exists simultaneously (Quantum Entanglement) because it also exists in superposition.

Everthing boils down to QM in the end - or that's the lowest level we have evidence for so far - but that certainly does not mean that things can or must be studied at that level. There is no evidence for any of the preceeding.

 

Based on these assumptions, I can safely conclude one of the major points of this thread, the point is that our (physical) minds are both embodied and disembodied simultaneously. Any equivalent information that exists within ourselves at this point in time could have easily existed years before we, as our current selves, came to walk the planet. Therefor, our existence outspans what we commonly call life (in the sense that we only have it from birth to death). As a further conclusion, OBE's are also, in fact, real experiences. (The same can be said of astral projection).

No, no you cannot safely conclude. Firstly the logic is not valid (and it is not shown) nor have you proven your premises to be correct so even with a valid logic the argument may not be sound.

 

I've come to the conclusion, over the past few days, that time is, in fact, experience itself. I have a good degree of confidence that this point is going to be very hard to argue for a very long time. This conclusion was based on a thought experiment about language I said in another thread here. I imagined, what if we not only had eyelids and earlids that function simultaneously with the same result, what if all of our senses had "lids" that functioned simultaneously with the same result? My conclusion is that we would be not be able to distinguish any sensory information from any other type of sensory information. All information would be audio-visual-olfactory-gustatory-kinesthetic information in one package. We would simply blink into this information and blink out of it. Well, under these assumptions, if we did not have time, we would not have experience, and from a mental perspective, it can be said the same way vice-versa and still be valid. This argument has validation from quantum physics mostly, in the sense that observation affects reality. Using this argument, I can give even further validation for OBE's to be true by saying that our consciousness can exist both within our embodied minds and without our embodied minds. Consciousness can exist inside and outside of our bodies (but I believe that it can only do so in a linear fashion).

Validation in science rests on repeatable experiments with significant levels of observational proof. It does not and cannot rely on solely logic nor on thought-experiments.

Well, if our basic components exist in superposition, who's to say that they won't continue to get prompted even after death. Furthermore, who's to say that they weren't prompted before our life? Who's to say that they weren't prompted and couldn't be prompted before, during, and after our life simultaneously? This lends credence for clairvoyance.

No again it doesn't give any reason for increased credence in clairvoyance from a base level of zero; it doesnt even approach the point of providing a mechanism, and even with a mechanism there is the point that there is zero evidence.

 

I'm not even going to mention telepathy, I hate it honestly.

 

Also, here is an excerpt from one of my previous trolls.

If you are gonna describe your own posts as trolling you will be lucky if someone doesnt lock this thread.