Hungry is Not an emotion!

[Supaiku]

lol good answer. I'd agree.

[iglak]

for monogamy.

the purpose of sex is to create children.

the purpose of attraction is both to create more children and to identify the person who is the most evolutionarily fit.

 

after the child is created, it needs at least 12 years with one or a few mother(s), because the mother identifies the place where shelter, food, water, and learning can be found. it is the father's job to protect the mother(s) and child(ren). males generally feel the need to physically protect family. this is possible in harems, communities, and monogamies, but not in situations where the mother or father moves to a new area and never come back to the others. so as long as the community is close-knit, and no emotions of rejection and fear result from mating with others, something other than monogamy is fine. in current civilisations, however, monogomy is the easiest way to fulfill these criteria.

 

for emotions...

hungry is indeed an emotion. if it isn't, then the definition of "emotion" needs to be changed.

here's a good list of emotions.

[Glider]

That's a very long list. There are six universally recognised emotions, i.e. facial expressions of emotion that are recognised throughout the species: Happines, Sadness, Fear, Surprise, Anger and Disgust.

[Coral Rhedd]

Perhaps monogamy is a form of population control. Perhaps it is an adaptation to environments with scarce resources. Families in rural areas seem to have more children than families in crowded cities' date=' perhaps this is a similar phenomenon.

[/quote']

 

This would make sense to me.

 

I'm a bit young to have seriously considered romantic relationships in detail, however, I can tell you, that I do not wish to own a harem. One woman suits me just fine.

 

I do forget sometimes about how young people can actually be on this forum. Yet their intelligence constantly fools me into thinking they are older.

 

That is, I think, the dream of every woman.

 

Actually, the idea of three men for different purposes may not be a common fantasy of women. I have never heard another woman mention it. Just me, but I am old and cynical. Most of the women I know wish their husband's would find something to do besides go grocery shopping with them. We tend to calm down around a certain age and want to be left more to ourselves.

[Coral Rhedd]

That's a very long list. There are six universally recognised emotions, i.e. facial expressions of emotion that are recognised throughout the species: Happines, Sadness, Fear, Surprise, Anger and Disgust.

 

So what about more nuanced emotions like jealousy? Could we say that it is a combination of fear and anger?

[reverse]

Babies,

you know the ones,

those small often ill smelling - diaper wearing members of our species.

 

They may provide some clarity into the first two emotions, happy and sad.

They are extremists in their expression of their emotional states.

When they are sad they wale and liquid streams from their eyes

Sometimes they are sad many times a day.

(Is the liquid a by product of a chemical reaction.)

 

When a caregiver appears they are happy and they make a chortling sound.

And sometimes when they are very happy they stutter out a pitch not at all as piercing as the crying tone.

No liquid is ejected from around the visual sensors at this time , but one must still exercise great caution as these creatures have a variety of methods at their disposal to produce liquids of many viscosities.

 

They do not seem to get jokes but do like the slapstick routine known as peek a boo. Apparently the anticipation coils up within them to be releases like a giant spring in the form of laughter.

[reverse]

So what about more nuanced emotions like jealousy? Could we say that it is a combination of fear and anger?

 

I was hoping it would get to this point.

 

well in truth I'm hoping this will lead to some form of system.

Like when you go to buy a can of paint from a paint store.

first you get the general colour, then you look at a variation of that colour (which in light is a combination of the red blue green wavelength and in pigment is a combination of the Cyan Magenta yellow black pigments).

I didn’t want to go look it up (thanks all the same Glider) because I wanted to see if it would be self deducible from our own experiences.

[YT2095]

sadly the word "Feel" is somewhat Broad in it`s meaning, and must therefore be received in the correct context.

 

it`s a "failing" of the English language in that respect, and as a result can be abused or utilised in Humour, and puns etc...

 

it`s not unique though, the same exists in Russian lang too

 

`est = have

`est = eat/food

 

ya `est `est is somewhat funny

 

 

edit: damn this old KBD sucks now! (

[reverse]

This is way off topic but I can see it's close to your heart so.

 

[quote= Perhaps monogamy is a form of population control.

 

Often history leaves us with the systems .See if you can find a historical case for Monogamy.

[Deified]

This is way off topic but I can see it's close to your heart so.

 

Reason sometimes does not enter into the conventions of man.

often history leaves us with the systems we work with and dare not venture away form (due to the massive job of restructuring all of the interlocking systems).

For example history has given us the letters of the alphabet or the numbers we count with and... the social units we live by.

Our Months ..named after Roman Gods' date=' our days named after Norse ones...history still with us.

Sure we could change any one of these. but like a house of cards the systems interlock.

change one and you may crumble the lot.

 

See if you can find a historical case for Monogamy.[/quote']

 

Yes, I'm sure we could pinpoint the time when monogamy beacame the accepted norm in some cultures, but a more interesting question, is why did we evolve the tendency for it. (or at least to believe in its truth) That is an interesting point about the house of cards effect. I don't seek to change the system, only to examine it and its motivation.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

[reverse]

sadly the word "Feel" is somewhat Broad in it’s meaning' date=' and must therefore be received in the correct context.

 

edit: damn this old KBD sucks now! ([/quote']

 

good point, but lets side step the semantics for now.

 

I'm interested if you personally experience the same type of emotions that I do and how you have come to categorise and consider them.

[reverse]

is why did we evolve the tendency for it. .

 

no probs.

 

have a stab at a broad outline for categorizing emotions like a paint colour chart and I will share some thoughts on why monogamy is popular.

[Coral Rhedd]

good point' date=' but lets side step the semantics for now.

 

I'm interested if you personally experience the same type of emotions that I do and how you have come to categorise and consider them.[/quote']

 

What a challenging goal. Sometimes I am not sure I experience the same type of emotions I do -- at least when I am experiencing them. When I later evaluate what I experienced, how do I know some sort of subconscious denial hasn't step in? I think we tend to minimize our emotions once we get past them.

 

A suggestion -- though perhaps not what your are getting at -- propose various scenarios and let us tell what emotions we would have. Would this work? I can think of one problem: We might be measuring values rather than emotion.

 

Maybe we could rate the intensity of our emotions from 1-10.

[reverse]

I Like it!

 

so far a sort of blurry diagram is starting to form in the vacuum between my ears.

 

I have a ring like a compass with north south east west.

 

Happy is at the north position and sad is at the south.

 

angry is at the west and scared is at the east.

 

We can put your gradient from one to ten around the edges, do you think it should be 12 instead of ten. it’s more natural??

 

there is a smaller ring inside the first containing surprise and disgust.

 

as surprise is an opening or inviting of the world and disgust is a closing and rejecting of the world, I place surprise in line with happy and disgust in line with sad.

 

feel free to re assign the positions on this emotional compass.

feel free to add subtle emotions in at any place.

 

if it wont work it can be scrapped and another form considered.

[reverse]

No NO No , that just wont work!

 

(frustration intermingled with excitement at the prospect of moving closer to a solution)

 

(tears up diagram and throws it in the trash).

 

Quiet still and calm must be at the centre.

 

the gradient from small to great must radiate outward like a sun.

 

now, where to place surprised.......

[iglak]

surprised is the response someone has to something unexpected. it can be a good or bad or scary thing, but it's still surprise. surprise is it's own category.

fear is also it's own category, and has a couple of distiguished subcategories all by itself.

happiness is basically the absence of fear, so it would go on the opposite side, and it can mix with surprise

sadness happens when something happens that harms you or someone else, and can easily mix with surprise and fear.

anger usually coincides with fear, and the type of anger depends on which subcategory of fear is involved, but it can also mix with sadness.

disgust is...

i'll continue when i'm less tired, and i might try to categorize every emotion on that huge list. i'm intrigued.

[Glider]

So what about more nuanced emotions like jealousy? Could we say that it is a combination of fear and anger?

That sounds reasonable to me. The six I presented are the visually recognisable displays of emotion. These are adaptive and necessary in a social group.

 

However, emotion is a response to certain stimuli (real or perceived), and it makes sense to assume that one could only evoke a pure emotion through exposure to a 'pure' stimulus, specific to a particular emotion. But every individual is different and highly complex in their own emotional stuctures, and in real life, there is no such thing as a 'pure' emotional stimulus, they are all going to be mixed. So, it makes sense to assume that emotional responses to them will also be mixed.

 

Your example, jealousy (of the romantic attachment kind, rather than the acquisitive kind) will very likely include fear (of loss), anger (at the perceived encroachment on one's 'own territory/property') and sadness (at the loss of feelings of security and/or the decrease in one's sense of self worth).

[reverse]

Some emotions involve complex social conditioning.

Like guilt.

 

but that’s where babies are handy.

they are unconditioned.

so their emotions are relatively pure.

I don’t think I've seen a guilty baby.

(there they are, smiling away - while you clean up.

- happy as punch that they have just thrown food all over the place)

 

There needs to be some scale for the "social conditioning content" part of complex emotions, or at least a purity scale.

 

also Sex.

at puberty new dimensions are added.

but we cant look to a baby for the untainted version of this - as babies do not run under that drive.

[reverse]

surprised is the response someone has to something unexpected. it can be a good or bad or scary thing' date=' but it's still surprise. surprise is it's own category.

fear is also it's own category, and has a couple of distinguished subcategories all by itself.

I’ll continue when I’m less tired, and i might try to categorize every emotion on that huge list. I’m intrigued.[/quote']

 

 

That’s the way. just imagine how useful would be to have a clear chart of what is actually driving you.

 

I'm thinking about surprised still.

We have to be careful because sometimes one emotion will trigger the next almost at the same instant and we get a mix, but I'm sure they are separate.

 

look at your example, first you get surprise, them a moment later depending upon what has surprised you, your recognition pathways add remembered emotional stimuli from an earlier point in time.

You gotta be quick.

 

 

 

 

Actually

That’s really important.

 

Can we throw that one open for comment.

 

+++++Can we really have mixed emotions or do we really only have sequential emotions in a fast feed with some residual chemical blurring?

 

Open to comment insult or just plain wisecracking.

[Glider]

Some emotions involve complex social conditioning.

Like guilt.

 

but that’s where babies are handy.

they are unconditioned.

so their emotions are relatively pure.

 

Very good point.

And at least five of the six basic emotions can be seen clearly in babies: Happiness, Sadness (distress), Disgust, Surprise (startle) and fear. Anger can also be seen, but it looks like distress in babies and is more related to frustration.

 

Yes, we can have mixed emotions. When presented with two opposing stimuli, we will respond to both, but the combination is dissonance and often leads to inaction (with respect to the stimuli) and displacement behaviours. This can be seen in both animals and humans.

[reverse]

Iglak.

 

Monogamy

 

HISTORY:

Before democracy there were Kings.

Monogamy from a kings wife at lest was absolutely essential.

In those times of superstition, a kings right to rule was from the gods.

And passed on to a true son.

Can you imagine the disaster of a false son coming to power.

The kingdom would be under the guidance of a mere mortal.

 

NATURE:

A male cat will sneak off and kill the young of another cat.

Female cats must be constantly vigilant for their kittens.

 

SOCIETY;

A kiss on the hand may be quite continental, but contracts are a girls best friend.

When women were possessions and had no power to vote or earn money,

how were they to be cared for once the charms of youth had gone.

A binding social contract of course.

[reverse]

Coral Rhedd.

 

Here is a question for you.

 

I think I know the answer but I need a double check.

 

If people are so happy at weddings why do they cry all the time?

Babied do not cry unless they are unhappy.

[Deified]

Just a quick thought but maybe its a case of two opposing stimuli. There's the happiness at having found a life partner, but there's also the overwhelming change. I guess that doesn't really make sense. Oh well.

[Coral Rhedd]

Coral Rhedd.

 

Here is a question for you.

 

I think I know the answer but I need a double check.

 

If people are so happy at weddings why do they cry all the time?

Babied do not cry unless they are unhappy.

 

I don't think there is such a thing as tears of unmixed joy. I think if there are tears there is also either current sadness or the memory of sadness. Parents who cry at the children's weddings may be happy but also grieving a little bit that they no longer have their baby' date=' that time passed so fast, or that they certainly would have selected another son/daughter-in-law. (Listen to the song "Sunrise, Sunset" from [i']Fiddler on the Roof[/i].)I know if my daughter married I would certainly feel great trepidation. So many things can go wrong in a marriage.

 

I think people who get married fall into one of three categories: The Young, The Foolish, and The Courageous. Sorry to sound so cynical.

[Supaiku]

I'm pretty much all happy when I laugh so hard I cry...

But what about when people cry when they like... win something? (they do that right?)