Question about Ionocrafts(Lifters)

[Unity+]

So, I was curious to how it worked(after trying to get past the crackpottish "antigravity" videos) and it stated that it worked by ionizing the air, which caused lift in the craft because of the aluminum build(if that is correct). So, basically it pushes the air downward creating a lift upwards(correct me on this if this is incorrect).

 

The problem is doing this in space because vacuums do not contain the gases that are on Earth. However, I was thinking why can't we expel a gas in the area of the lifter in a vacuum in order to create this lift. In space, some gas could be expelled to the ionocraft-like engine in order to create a push between the gas and the ionocraft. It isn't like it would be efficient, but just a hypothetical. Would this work? Or are there other things at work?

 

EDIT: Apparently there are many people on the internet who keep claiming one thing over the other. A group of people claim that it is ionized wind while others claim another. Can someone explain how it works?

Edited December 30, 2013 by Unity+

[swansont]

AFAIK, ionized air is pushed down. The reaction force lifts the craft.

 

Your proposal might work but I suspect it would be less efficient than standard ion drives, which aren't particularly efficient to begin with.

[Unity+]

AFAIK, ionized air is pushed down. The reaction force lifts the craft.

 

Your proposal might work but I suspect it would be less efficient than standard ion drives, which aren't particularly efficient to begin with.

Well, supposedly they are very efficient within atmosphere, which brings to question whether they are efficient in vacuum space if my proposal was presented.

 

The equation for the force produced is , where:

• F is the resulting force, measured in dimension M L T⁻²
• I is the current flow of electric current, measured in dimension I.
• d is the air gap distance, measured in dimension L.
• k is the ion mobility coefficient of air, measured in dimension M⁻¹ T² I (Nominal value 2·10⁻⁴ m² V⁻¹ s⁻¹).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionocraft

(This, of course, assumes that wikipedia is correct).

 

So, if you increase the gaps in the ionocraft then it supposedly increases the force(which is weird because I thought there would be a limit where you would have to increase the amount of watts in order to account for such a large gap).

 

It was just an idea. Only if I could test it...

[Sensei]

Would this work? Or are there other things at work?

 

You are describing Hall's engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_thruster

 

Ionize some gas, then accelerate it, and eject from engine..

[Unity+]

 

You are describing Hall's engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_thruster

 

Ionize some gas, then accelerate it, and eject from engine..

I noticed that, but I thought they may have worked differently.

[swansont]

I don't think this would be efficient in space, since the air would have a tendency to escape. The fraction of molecules ionized would be larger if you enclosed it, which is then a standard ion drive.

[Elena Loskova]

I built the only solely ion propelled aircraft that can carry its power supply onboard. It can fly vertically or horizontally for nearly 2 minutes, so far. I'm still finishing up the stabilization and steering but it works. See US Patent No. 10,119,527, or the videos etc. at  url deleted I share a lot of data on the subject that I picked up over the past 19 years on the site. Just a heads up, a lot of the literature on the subject is wrong. That is why people are not getting better results. A lot of the misconceptions are clarified, at least implicitly, on my site and patent. I hope you find this helpful!

Best regards,

Ethan

[Ghideon]

20 minutes ago, Elena Loskova said:

I share a lot of data on the subject that I picked up over the past 19 years on the site.

Ok, sounds interesting! What kind of data?

20 minutes ago, Elena Loskova said:

Just a heads up, a lot of the literature on the subject is wrong.

Please describe what is wrong and what is correct. (I'm not going to try follow the broken link to find out.)

21 minutes ago, Elena Loskova said:

I hope you find this helpful!

Until details are presented here on the forum,  the answer is unfortunately no, it was not helpful.

 

[Strange]

MIT students claim to have built an ion powered craft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_EAD_Airframe_Version_2

Judging by the video on their website, it just looks like a not very effective glider! I have seen paper planes fly further.

http://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121

 

[Curious layman]

The Atmospheric EFE-TC (go to 5:10). By AsteronX

Doesn't give any details of amount of energy needed, which I've learnt usually means....yeah right, you wish. But an interesting site nonetheless.

Abstract...

Quote

All over the surface of the craft are located microwave beam transmitters, used for ionizing the surrounding air, for the purpose of enabling an electrical current to ready flow through the air....also on the surface is an array of liquid nitrogen cooled superconducting wires to conduct a magnetic field and alternating pattern...adjacent and parallel are linear electrodes which generate a current within the ionised air...when a current and charge is applied to the superconducting wires and electrodes..the magnetic fields and induced electric current cross at right angles...generating a force known as th Laplace force, which increases or decreases the kinetic energy of the air molecules....when current is applied, the ionized air is immediately drawn down towards the top of the craft...creating greater atmospheric pressure below... 

Demonstration of a wingless electromagnetic air vehicle (Applied Physics Research Group, University of Florida, Gainesville) takes a while to load.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Curious layman