Evolution of Pride

[ku]

Could pride (e.g. pride of one's achievements or pride of one's country) be an evolutionary defense mechanism designed to reward organisms to (1) engage in productive activity that aids survival (for individual achievement) and (2) form allies with others (group pride, like pride for country)?

[ed84c]

well animals tend to defend their teritory and females, so i guess this could be contrived as being the intelligent responce to such problems.

 

Howeve a lot of pride comes not from the size of your country, but its technological acheivements, for example, or military might, of which animals have none.

[Supaiku]

I'd imagine it's a developed social tendency... but I'm not sure that'd I'd say it was an 'evolutionary defense mechanism.' I have a feeling that it's much more complex than that makes it sound. While I'd think part of where it comes from may be some sort of evolutionary-type process I bet there's a TON more that goes into it.

[Hellbender]

I'd imagine it's a developed social tendency... but I'm not sure that'd I'd say it was an 'evolutionary defense mechanism.' I have a feeling that it's much more complex than that makes it sound. While I'd think part[/b'] of where it comes from may be some sort of evolutionary-type process I bet there's a TON more that goes into it.

 

the action of developing of social tendencies is an evolutionary trait highly social animals posess.

[Supaiku]

By 'the action of developing social tendencies' do you mean that entire species have this on a large scale (and they develop them as a whole - like evolution type stuff) or do you mean that each one does it on their own and they develop their own individual tendances (or something else?)? And where (ya think) does pride fall?

 

I was trying to say (I can be pretty bad at explaining stuff) is that it's a mix of the two, and I'd guess that it's more the latter - but after thinking about it is pretty darned universal and diverse, so maybe it's more of a mix than I thought. Or perhaps one or ther other.

[ku]

When we do not sleep, we feel miserable. Science knows now that this miserable feeling is a defence mechanism because sleeping is important in organizing thoughts, which is important for survival.

 

In a similar way, group pride--the force that makes religion and nationalism very popular--could be an instinct preserved through evolution because individuals who ally with others increase fitness.

[Supaiku]

fitness? Like in shape or fitness to function how necissary?

What about personal pride?

[boxhead]

Could pride (e.g. pride of one's achievements or pride of one's country) be an evolutionary defense mechanism designed to reward organisms to (1) engage in productive activity that aids survival (for individual achievement) and (2) form allies with others (group pride, like pride for country)?

 

that is somehow directly related witjh super-ego. reference > sigmund freud.

[Void]

Could pride (e.g. pride of one's achievements or pride of one's country) be an evolutionary defense mechanism designed to reward organisms to (1) engage in productive activity that aids survival (for individual achievement) and (2) form allies with others (group pride, like pride for country)?

 

No...I don't think I would consider pride as the same as a tendency toward reward. Pride is exorbant self-esteem, its a reflection on one's accomplishments with a feeling of excess regard.

 

What you are describing sounds more like the "in-group/out-group" bias. Now that would seem to have evolutionary roots. Especially toward kin, who represent a biological in-group.

[coquina]

Could pride (e.g. pride of one's achievements or pride of one's country) be an evolutionary defense mechanism designed to reward organisms to (1) engage in productive activity that aids survival (for individual achievement) and (2) form allies with others (group pride, like pride for country)?

 

It seems to me that one of the most common and important types of pride is that which a parent feels for the accomplishments of his/her child. When the child gets good grades or masters a new task, the parent says, "I'm proud of you." So, in this case, pride is a positive reinforcement that encourages the child to continue to learn new mental and physical tasks.

 

When one has pride in one's own achievements, it could be compared to the "A Ha!" experience - the light-bulb switches on. (I don't know, but I suspect there is a release of endorphins.) Since this is a pleasurable experience, we are encouraged to repeat it.

 

In some people, particularly creative or inventive ones, the group may feel pride towards a member who figures out a way to solve a problem which makes living easier for the entire group.

 

Conversely, individuals may feel pride toward the entire group if they work as a unit to achieve goals that none could accomplish alone. This would fit into the "pride of country category".

 

As to the "evolutionary defense mechanism" - I'd cite the first example as the one most likely to fall into this pattern, since praising our children helps them learn the lessons that will aid in helping them reach the age where they can reproduce.

[Void]

So let me get this staright...

 

Your asserting that pride has evolved so that we reinforce others, specifically our kids?

 

However, it is possible to reward a child without feeling pride. When I reward my niece and nephew for good behavior, I do not do it out of pride, but out of knowing its behavior she must master for success. Some cultures do take this "parental pride" perspective. I think this may be something born out of the competitive individuality of Western cultures.

[coquina]

So let me get this staright...

 

Your asserting that pride has evolved so that we reinforce others' date=' specifically our kids?

 

However, it is possible to reward a child without feeling pride. When I reward my niece and nephew for good behavior, I do not do it out of pride, but out of knowing its behavior she must master for success. Some cultures do take this "parental pride" perspective. I think this may be something born out of the competitive individuality of Western cultures.[/quote']

 

As I understand it, the Eastern cultures are even more prideful, if, that is, you would define the term "saving face" as salvaging one's - or one's family, pride.

 

Here's a link that describes "face" as a type of pride:

http://www.jobmonkey.com/teaching/asia/html/customs_in_china.html

As in most Asian countries, face is a very important and complex feature of daily life. We may call it "pride" in the West, but we don't have as developed a sense of the absolute necessity of "saving face" as in the East. In China, you will encounter this idea of "saving face" as well as having to "give face," on multiple levels. Maybe in the classroom the student in the back row who knows the answer to your question won't answer because she doesn't want her classmates to feel stupid. Maybe when you asked that old man how to get to the museum he just pointed to the left because he was too embarrassed to admit that he had no idea where it really was. Maybe the official at the Public Security Bureau won't extend your visa because you lost your temper in front of him and his colleagues, and if he granted your request now it would look as if he'd given in to your threats. Be aware of face and its importance to the Chinese. In general, as a foreigner to whom face means comparatively little, you can afford to lose face more than the Chinese, so you can use this to your advantage. Try to give face as often as possible—it will be appreciated.

[Void]

I think "pride" is a horrible way of describing face. A better description would be "self-respect" or "family-respect".

 

Its also defined as "status in the eyes of others; "he lost face"

 

Its a form of social respect.

 

Pride is used in the ways your are describing, but I see it a bit more differently...as "An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit"

[Flareon]

I think "pride" is a horrible way of describing face. A better description would be "self-respect" or "family-respect".

 

Its also defined as "status in the eyes of others; "he lost face"

 

Its a form of social respect.

 

Pride is used in the ways your are describing' date=' but I see it a bit more differently...as "An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit"[/quote']

 

Actually I know many Asians would disagree and 'pride' would be actually quite appropriate.

 

For example, many Chinese are fiercely proud of their culture and language. You can almost imagine that they would believe what is Chinese is better than anything done any other way. Conceited? Perhaps. But looking through their long history I might agree that it's not undeserved. That said, of course we can not attribute this sentiment to the entire population.

 

To Coquina: perhaps this isn't you meant originally, but I just wanted to make a point.

[coquina]

I think "pride" is a horrible way of describing face. A better description would be "self-respect" or "family-respect".

 

Its also defined as "status in the eyes of others; "he lost face"

 

Its a form of social respect.

 

Pride is used in the ways your are describing' date=' but I see it a bit more differently...as "An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit"[/quote']

 

I was quoting from a source that I thought understood the eastern mentality better than I do. Your definition of pride is one, but IMHO, not the only one.

 

Flareon: Thanks for the feedback.

[Void]

Actually I know many Asians would disagree and 'pride' would be actually quite appropriate.

 

For example' date=' many Chinese are fiercely proud of their culture and language. You can almost imagine that they would believe what is Chinese is better than anything done any other way. Conceited? Perhaps. But looking through their long history I might agree that it's not undeserved. That said, of course we can not attribute this sentiment to the entire population.

 

To Coquina: perhaps this isn't you meant originally, but I just wanted to make a point.[/quote']

 

Ok, after rethinking the idea a bit, I might concede that pride may be a manifestation of a deeper evolutionary bias as emotion. This bias, is the in-group/out-group bias...Its a bias that not only has emotional manifestations, but cognitive as well.