Lab Grown Hamburger, anyone think this is wrong

[Lightmeow]

I was reading an artical in the New York Times Archive:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/science/a-lab-grown-burger-gets-a-taste-test.html?_r=0. It was about some scientists who "grew" some cow muscle, and then it got cooked.

 

Is there anything "wrong" with this. I can't think of any, so that is why I am asking this question.

[Phi for All]

Absolutely not! Growing meat will eventually remove the major concerns of keeping livestock for consumption, and hopefully some day allow us to eat only the best tasting meats free of additives and process parts.

 

In addition, this will allow us to take some high-quality protein with us into space.

[michel123456]

It will also suppress the horrible industrial procedure of growing and killing animals.

[Phi for All]

It will also suppress the horrible industrial procedure of growing and killing animals.

 

We're in a phase globally where our populations require us to adopt these procedures. I don't like them but they're necessary if we want the best protein sources. Being able to grow our own meat will be a huge step towards sustainable methods, but I also wonder how long species like cows and pigs will be around without us to husband them.

[Lightmeow]

I need to do more research, but I feel that protein is the highest matter that we consume. I don't think that if we grow the meat in the lab, that it would solve anything, because it takes energy. Like the article said, it took around $325,000 to grow that small amount of meat. Even if they did perfect the procedure, how would they be able to mass produce the meat? They took some stem cells, and grew them into muscle, and they needed cow stem cells to do that. This is very confusing, and I can't think about how they could do this...

 

How does the body convert food into energy? Is there a way they could make something so high energy that you would only need to take a pill a day? I like eating, but this seems to be a good solution also.

[EdEarl]

I don't want to change the subject, but I'm concerned my post will do so.

 

Fat, oils, and protein are too rich in calories, and digesting protein makes our blood acid which leeches calcium from our bones, causing osteoporosis. Thus, IMO we should eat vegetables exclusively or only rarely eat meat, for health reasons.

 

I know that almost everyone will argue otherwise. Since this thread is not about eating vegan, I will not respond to arguments.

[imatfaal]

OK to introduce the "yuck factor" as we all seem to think the above is fine - how would the respondents feel if the initial seed cells (none of which are eventually consumed) that are reproduced and latticed in vitro were human? Let's ignore potential prion diseases (vCJD etc) and assume for the ethical argument that there would be no negative health implications. Bloated Plutocrat Fois Gras anyone? Roast Leg of Insurance Salesman? A delicate Carpaccio of Lonely Long Distance Runner?

[Phi for All]

I don't think that if we grow the meat in the lab, that it would solve anything, because it takes energy. Like the article said, it took around $325,000 to grow that small amount of meat. Even if they did perfect the procedure, how would they be able to mass produce the meat? They took some stem cells, and grew them into muscle, and they needed cow stem cells to do that. This is very confusing, and I can't think about how they could do this...

 

The key is mass production. The first of any product is always hideously expensive, because all the startup, R&D and manufacturing costs are totaled against that first burger. And more research can help lower the costs further.

 

Imagine using half the land we use now for livestock grazing and habitation, and instead have large scale cultured meat farms that can eventually grow you a perfect filet that was never stalked, hunted or slaughtered, perhaps with other engineered benefits that might even tempt EdEarl to buy some steak knives.

OK to introduce the "yuck factor" as we all seem to think the above is fine - how would the respondents feel if the initial seed cells (none of which are eventually consumed) that are reproduced and latticed in vitro were human? Let's ignore potential prion diseases (vCJD etc) and assume for the ethical argument that there would be no negative health implications. Bloated Plutocrat Fois Gras anyone? Roast Leg of Insurance Salesman? A delicate Carpaccio of Lonely Long Distance Runner?

 

You've removed most of my objections, so why not? The Runner would probably be too stringy though, and I'm not into anything bloated.

 

Perhaps this could be used to reduce consumption of tiger penises and shark fins. If you really want to absorb the power from your food, how about some POTUS chops or perhaps Queen Elizabeth London Broil?

 

Or maybe we go for the vendetta angle. Roast Leg of Insurance Salesman might be especially satisfying after your claim gets denied. Braised Tongue of Smart-Mouthed Co-Worker would be a delicacy.

 

I think "Eat me!" would be a good slogan for my new cultured human meat company.

[EdEarl]

 

Imagine using half the land we use now for livestock grazing and habitation, and instead have large scale cultured meat farms that can eventually grow you a perfect filet that was never stalked, hunted or slaughtered, perhaps with other engineered benefits that might even tempt EdEarl to buy some steak knives.

Actually, I love a good steak, salmon, chicken, etc., and dairy. However, I've given it up for better health and fewer pills.

[Greg H.]

Personally, I'm more excited about it from a space exploration and settlement aspect than my own personal consumption. Being able to grow meat from very lightweight materials would make human habitation on other worlds far more viable than having to carry a whole cow along for the ride.

[imatfaal]

Personally, I'm more excited about it from a space exploration and settlement aspect than my own personal consumption. Being able to grow meat from very lightweight materials would make human habitation on other worlds far more viable than having to carry a whole cow along for the ride.

 

Hmm - if it were my victualling that were being discussed I would prefer greenhouse, grass-seed and rabbits until I was very very sure in the bulletproof nature of the vat and control systems; "The Steak-Vat 3.11 © Microsoft" would not fill me with confidence.

[arc]

Yes, I can see it now, the future of synthetic food will be a green industry.

 

[Greg H.]

 

Hmm - if it were my victualling that were being discussed I would prefer greenhouse, grass-seed and rabbits until I was very very sure in the bulletproof nature of the vat and control systems; "The Steak-Vat 3.11 © Microsoft" would not fill me with confidence.

Good point.

[CaptainPanic]

I have no objections to this 'artificial' meat, as long as the taste is similar to the meat I eat now. I can see great benefits from an energy-efficiency point-of-view, and as said before it may also reduce the ethical issues with killing animals (and the poor conditions in which they are kept).

However, I have two concerns, mostly practical:

1. I wonder how high the investment is to build such a meat-factory. While the energy-efficiency may be lower because you need less energy-input (in terms of water and cattle feed) than for growing a pig or a cow, the investment is possibly going to be higher than the investment for a field of grass with a fence around it. So, the business case must pay back that higher investment by its lower operating costs (lower energy use). I am not yet convinced that this will be an interesting investment. But perhaps the lower land usage for growing less cattle feed counters this argument, and lowers the investment costs for the meat production.

 

2. Bones are good for soup, and spare ribs are awesome. Skin is good for certain dishes, as well as for leather. Liver is really nice in certain dishes as well as in a sausage for on bread and toast (foie gras). Some people enjoy offals in general (haggis). Of course, we shouldn't forget blood sausages, tongue sausage, the ox tail stew, the pig feet and chicken feet. Ok, you probably get the point. We can replace meat (the muscles), but we still want all that other food from animals as well. If we want to avoid having to grow animals for food, we must replace the whole thing, not just a part of it. So, who's gonna grow me some artificial bacon?

[Greg H.]

So, who's gonna grow me some artificial bacon?

If they can't make bacon, then they need to admit the whole idea is a failure and scrap it.

 

You can have my bacon when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[Endy0816]

2. Bones are good for soup, and spare ribs are awesome. Skin is good for certain dishes, as well as for leather. Liver is really nice in certain dishes as well as in a sausage for on bread and toast (foie gras). Some people enjoy offals in general (haggis). Of course, we shouldn't forget blood sausages, tongue sausage, the ox tail stew, the pig feet and chicken feet. Ok, you probably get the point. We can replace meat (the muscles), but we still want all that other food from animals as well. If we want to avoid having to grow animals for food, we must replace the whole thing, not just a part of it. So, who's gonna grow me some artificial bacon?

 

 

A new(and tasty) use for biological scaffolds!

[Phi for All]

I have no objections to this 'artificial' meat, as long as the taste is similar to the meat I eat now.

 

I would hope that when industry is approved for large scale production, they'll be working very hard to offer a product that tastes and has at least as good a texture as the meat you eat now. I see no reason why they couldn't eventually make every steak taste like US Prime.

 

I'm pretty sure, at least in the beginning, steaks and burgers will not be as common commercially as stew meats and other uses where the meat is in a blended dish.

 

If they can't make bacon, then they need to admit the whole idea is a failure and scrap it.

 

You can have my bacon when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

 

So we keep the pigs and grow the beef ourselves. We'd still save acres and acres and cut slaughterhouses by more than half.

 

I would have thought of this sooner but I spent an hour gibbering in the fetal position when you mentioned taking my bacon away.

[John Cuthber]

 

 

... digesting protein makes our blood acid which leeches calcium from our bones, causing osteoporosis.

Through what plausible mechanism?

[Fuzzwood]

I don't want to change the subject, but I'm concerned my post will do so.

 

Fat, oils, and protein are too rich in calories, and digesting protein makes our blood acid which leeches calcium from our bones, causing osteoporosis. Thus, IMO we should eat vegetables exclusively or only rarely eat meat, for health reasons.

 

I know that almost everyone will argue otherwise. Since this thread is not about eating vegan, I will not respond to arguments.

 

In fear of derailing the thread: in what way would proteins be any more acidic than, let's say the hydrochloric acid produced by our very own stomach since birth? Besides, our blood pH is very precisely controlled through the bicarbonate/carbonate buffer system.

[Marshalscienceguy]

I was reading an artical in the New York Times Archive:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/science/a-lab-grown-burger-gets-a-taste-test.html?_r=0. It was about some scientists who "grew" some cow muscle, and then it got cooked.

 

Is there anything "wrong" with this. I can't think of any, so that is why I am asking this question.

They made killing animals some how more ethical. If all they grew was muscle I cant see how its hurting an animal. I think this is better than breeding cows, pigs, horses and than brutally slaughtering them. I am sure the animal activists would be all for it as well. This is brilliant.

[RadarArtillery]

 

I would hope that when industry is approved for large scale production, they'll be working very hard to offer a product that tastes and has at least as good a texture as the meat you eat now. I see no reason why they couldn't eventually make every steak taste like US Prime.

 

I'm pretty sure, at least in the beginning, steaks and burgers will not be as common commercially as stew meats and other uses where the meat is in a blended dish.

 

 

So we keep the pigs and grow the beef ourselves. We'd still save acres and acres and cut slaughterhouses by more than half.

 

I would have thought of this sooner but I spent an hour gibbering in the fetal position when you mentioned taking my bacon away.

 

Actually, unless I'm mistaken (and I very may well be), most burger meat is actually of an even lower quality then stew meat. At any rate, I know it's generally low quality meat, which is perfectly alright: You don't really need hamburger to be tender, because you've essentially turned it into a (very delicious) paste. The tenderness (And therefore the quality) of meat generally boils down to how thick the strands of muscle are packed together, which is why a steak with a lot of marbling is good: When the marbled fat melts, it leaves plenty of room between the muscle fibers so that it doesn't feel like you're eating rubber. When you've mashed the muscle fibers to bits, they're not as big of a factor in how tender the meat is anymore, so you can use very low quality meat in your burger and have it still taste good. Based on this, I'd expect burger to be among the first applications of cloned beef, and probably one of the applications that would have the highest demand! The industry is always looking for a cheaper way of making burger.

 

This is why McDonalds is delicious, despite probably being made with roast roadkill.

 

Edit: This is also why it would be quite easy to make well textured burger meat, even in the early days of cloned meat.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RadarArtillery

[EdEarl]

If they can't make bacon, then they need to admit the whole idea is a failure and scrap it.

 

You can have my bacon when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

LOL, once I liked bacon, especially a bacon cheeseburger...maybe it was another lifetime. I quit eating burgers long ago, for health, but tried a bite of one about 20 years ago, but the aftertaste was like lard on my tongue. I've had no such craving since then, and rarely eat any meat.

 

Viva vegans.

[RadarArtillery]

LOL, once I liked bacon, especially a bacon cheeseburger...maybe it was another lifetime. I quit eating burgers long ago, for health, but tried a bite of one about 20 years ago, but the aftertaste was like lard on my tongue. I've had no such craving since then, and rarely eat any meat.

 

Viva vegans.

This sounds like more of an argument based on personal choice.

 

I won't debate that you don't like cheeseburgers; I'm sure you're quite capable of deciding what you like. That being said... I feel like you're trying to convince everyone else that cheeseburgers and meat in general is gross based on little more then your own personal opinion about them.

 

You've spoken of massive health benefits of a vegan diet, and told us that the body cannot properly digest protein (Weird, since we literally need protein to continue functioning. Also weird, since vegetables contain protein and you're still consuming it if you eat them.), but you haven't referenced any solid links to why you believe these things. I'd like to see the evidence supporting these claims.

[EdEarl]

This sounds like more of an argument based on personal choice.

 

I won't debate that you don't like cheeseburgers; I'm sure you're quite capable of deciding what you like. That being said... I feel like you're trying to convince everyone else that cheeseburgers and meat in general is gross based on little more then your own personal opinion about them.

 

You've spoken of massive health benefits of a vegan diet, and told us that the body cannot properly digest protein (Weird, since we literally need protein to continue functioning. Also weird, since vegetables contain protein and you're still consuming it if you eat them.), but you haven't referenced any solid links to why you believe these things. I'd like to see the evidence supporting these claims.

I don't remember saying my body cannot properly digest protein. In fact, I eat a varied diet, including (occasionally) meat, fish, fowl, and dairy. Although, I am allergic to milk, it causes my lungs to congest.

 

I recommend watching the documentary, Forks over Knives, for research telling why animal products can be harmful to people, reading any of the diet books by Dr. McDougall, news about diet and osteoporosis, and I'm sure you can find or already know the link between dietary cholesterol and heart-disease.

[Acme]

I was reading an artical in the New York Times Archive:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/science/a-lab-grown-burger-gets-a-taste-test.html?_r=0. It was about some scientists who "grew" some cow muscle, and then it got cooked.

 

Is there anything "wrong" with this. I can't think of any, so that is why I am asking this question.

Other than being prohibitively expensive, I see nothing 'wrong' with it. We're herbivores evolved to eat both meat and plant.

 

It will also suppress the horrible industrial procedure of growing and killing animals.

You betcha! Better we get back to the wonderful individual practice of butchering our own meat in the yard. Damn civilization and modern practices!!

 

I don't want to change the subject, but I'm concerned my post will do so.

Then why post it?

 

Fat, oils, and protein are too rich in calories, and digesting protein makes our blood acid which leeches calcium from our bones, causing osteoporosis. Thus, IMO we should eat vegetables exclusively or only rarely eat meat, for health reasons.

Again, we are evolved omnivores. Everything in moderation Chuck.

 

I know that almost everyone will argue otherwise. Since this thread is not about eating vegan, I will not respond to arguments.

So you will provoke an argument and then not defend the provocation? Nice work!

 

OK to introduce the "yuck factor" as we all seem to think the above is fine - how would the respondents feel if the initial seed cells (none of which are eventually consumed) that are reproduced and latticed in vitro were human? Let's ignore potential prion diseases (vCJD etc) and assume for the ethical argument that there would be no negative health implications. Bloated Plutocrat Fois Gras anyone? Roast Leg of Insurance Salesman? A delicate Carpaccio of Lonely Long Distance Runner?

Soylent Green is people!!!

 

Or if you prefer, Johnathan Swift's modest proposal to eat children. "I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricasie, or a ragoust. "