Penile Erection in REM

[coquina]

That's what you get for posting in a thread about erections.

 

Ahhh, Sayo - I was married to one guy for 31 years and have worked in a machine shop longer. I was about to make a smart a$$ed remark and restrained myself due to the young people who post here.

[muhali3]

What would the evolutionary purpose be for inhibiting urination whilst sleeping?

 

Isn't it bad to inhibit urination because it might cause a urinary tract infection (UTI).

 

FYI: Yes, it is possible to urinate during an erection, except the flow is slow.

[Sayonara]

Ahhh, Sayo - I was married to one guy for 31 years and have worked in a machine shop longer. I was about to make a smart a$$ed remark and restrained myself due to the young people who post here.

So... many... good... jokes... nggghhh

[Obnoxious]

Is there a way to manually override the morning erection?

[Kindria2000]

I can think of a manual override... ::shakes head:: I'm sorry but there are way too many jokes that can be made here.

[Sorcerer]

Nocturnal penile tumescence if you must' date='remember this is a science forum.

In answer to your question as far as im aware,the actual reason for this is still unknown.There are insufficient studies to allow for a definitive answer.

It certainly doesnt have anything to do with a full bladder.Think about every time you need the toilet during the day??[/quote']

 

Perhaps it stops you from wetting the bed.

[Sorcerer]

is that I was married for 31 years.

 

Regarding urinating and erection - I have read that it is impossible for a man to urinate while having an erection' date=' the reason given was that if it happened in during intercourse it could cause the partner to acquire an infection.[/quote']

 

Its not impossible, just difficult, it requires tighter contraction of the muscles, and it is also impossible to aim at the toilet bowl.

 

Hence *female screams* "who pissed all over the toilet again".

[Sorcerer]

What would the evolutionary purpose be for inhibiting urination whilst sleeping?

 

Isn't it bad to inhibit urination because it might cause a urinary tract infection (UTI).

 

FYI: Yes' date=' it is possible to urinate during an erection, except the flow is slow.[/quote']

 

Urine has a strong odor that attracts predators, its more disadvantageous to attract predators to where you are sleeping, than the possible disadvantageous risk of a UTI.

[mustang292]

From my own experiences, I will tell you that Everytime I wake up with a "Nocturnal penile tumescence" (lol) I have to go drain the lizard. So basically I believe in the Full Blatter thing.

What I don't understand is why my ex always woke me up at 4am on the nose anytime she wanted to fool around. And I've heard that 4am for women is a pretty usual thing.

[Kindria2000]

that might explain why I've been waking up at 4amON THE DOT for the last couple of weeks... thats interesting................... ::thinks::

[Peels]

I just noticed that my dog also has this "Nocturnal penile tumescence" sometimes in the morning.

[Sorcerer]

Hehe, maybe he thinks you're his bitch......

[Dak]

my, what a funny thread!

 

as for the bladder controll thoery... having a hard-on doesnt actually inpeed your ability to urinate, unless you try and aim it down at the toilet, in which case a valve gets squished shut preventing urination -- as long as its pointing upward, urination is possible...the few occasions when i have woken up not needing the toilet i still have an erection... and whenever iv been extremely drunk, the next morning i wake up without a stiffy and definately needing the toilet, and without having wet the bed dispite the abscence of a morning glory.

 

whilst were on the subject, why the, hmm, lets call it an "illness indused phallic tumescence"? might it be related to the nocturnal chubby phenomena?

[Peels]

When we talk about the bladder controll thoery, we are talking about REM sleep. It is possible that one has a need to go to toilet without erection if woke up from NREM sleep.

[Peels]

"Besides the heart and lungs, another part of the body is not paralyzed during REM sleep: the penis. Normal men always have an erection during REM sleep. When one of my colleagues was asked, for the umpteenth time, where dreams come from, he answered, 'I don't know where they come from, but I think that the erect penis serves as the antenna to receive them.' This doesn't really violate the rule about paralysis during REM sleep, since erections are not caused by muscle action but by blood engorgement. Since there is usually a REM period right before waking, men often wake up with an erection. In women, other sleep researchers have found that there is increased vaginal blood flow and clitoral engorgement during REM sleep. The increase in blood flow in both men and women during REM sleep is probably an incidental effect of the activation of the part of the autonomic nervous system that controls heart rate and other involuntary body functions.

 

Penile erection during REM (called nocturnal penile tumescence, or NPT) is sometimes misunderstood, usually because the sleeper or his partner thinks the erection signifies that the dream is about sex. This is not the case. No matter what the dream is about, REM sleep will produce an erection in any man who is not impotent for physical reasons. A patient was referred to me because she was concerned that her husband had an erection every night, and she thought he must be dreaming about sex with another woman. She worried that this was a reflection of a real affair. She was very distressed, but I assured her that, barring any other evidence, she should put her mind at ease. The erection is almost never associated with erotic dream content. Even newborn males have erections during REM sleep. Once, through an error in the hospital billing office, over 100 women were billed for an NPT test. When many of these women called to ask about the NPT test on their bill we had to suffer the embarrassment of telling them about the test and our mistake. The worst moment was explaining this to a patient who was a nun."

 

Quoted from William C Dement, "The Promise of Sleep", 1999.

[Guest sitaralvin]

I actually joined this forum for the express purpose of responding to the blatanly false statements contained in that last quote. If that's what Dement said, then he's an idiot. Anyone with a basic understanding of male urogenital physiology should be able to tell you why men have erections during REM sleep. But the answer is exactly the opposite of what it says in that quote -- the penis IS paralyzed during REM sleep and erections ARE caused by muscle action, as this passage makes clear:

 

"The penile erectile tissue, specifically the cavernous smooth musculature and the smooth muscles of the arteriolar and arterial walls, plays a key role in the erectile process. In the flaccid state, these muscles are tonically contracted by the sympathetic discharge, and vasoconstrictors secreted by endothelium allowing only a small amount of arterial flow for nutritional purposes.

 

Sexual stimulation triggers release of neurotransmitters from the cavernous nerve terminals. This results in relaxation of these smooth muscles . . . "

 

Lue, et al, Physiology of Penile Erection at http://www.duj.com/Article/Lue.html (emphasis added)

 

Muscle tissue around the arteries leading into the penis is usually contracted to limit blood flow. When this muscle tissue is relaxed, the increased blood flow causes an erection. A common, but misleading, illustration of how erection happens is to say it's like holding your thumb on the end of a garden hose to restrict the water output which makes the hose firmer. It really works more like keeping the same pressure with your thumb while someone turns the facet up higher.

 

Contrary to what you might think, a relaxed penis is a hard penis. This is why men sometimes can't get hard when they're nervous or uptight*, and, conversely, why men get erections when given anasthesia -- or during the generalized paralysis of REM sleep when the muscles around the penile arteries slacken, allowing blood to gush in and engorge the penis.

 

So how is it that a famous doctor and physiologist like Dement could be so wrong about this? Hell, he's the one who named this sleep state REM. (See http://www.dushkin.com/connectext/psy/ch05/bio5.mhtml ) I just can't believe that he would say those things -- nor have I been able to find those statements anywhere among the hundreds of sites with quotes from "The Promise of Sleep". So, I would like to see a link to where that came from, because it sounds like something a person with no uderstanding of physiology at all would say -- not the pioneer who first discovered that men get erections during the paralysis of REM sleep.

 

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* NOTE: Because of the common misconception that an erection is caused by muscles contracting, most attempts at overcoming partial or situational impotence actually make the problem worse. The more a man tries to get hard by tightening up, the more he limits blood flow into his penis and the less likely it is to get hard.

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[Squintz]

Im no expert and dont have an educated opinion about this subject but based on the last post that basically stated that it is easier for a man to become erect when he is relaxed is not true with me. In fact in order for me to become erect I must extend my legs and tighten the mussles in my legs and butt. This is not the case every time but more times than not.

 

I'm thinking that every man is different and it all comes back to hormons and what triggers the homons in each individual

[YT2095]

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* NOTE: Because of the common misconception that an erection is caused by muscles contracting' date=' most attempts at overcoming partial or situational impotence actually make the problem worse. The more a man tries to get hard by tightening up, the more he limits blood flow into his penis and the less likely it is to get hard.

---------------------------------------------------------------------[/quote']

 

I`m not 100% sure about this but does the penis actualy HAVE any muscles? AFAIK it doesnt, it`s basicly a system of "Hydrolics" for wants of a better word, activated by blood pressure.

 

I`m not sure if I interpret that section of your post correctly, but on the chance that I do, I think I agree with you.

[Peels]

Anyone with a basic understanding of male urogenital physiology should be able to tell you why men have erections during REM sleep.

 

As I known, even scientists and researchers in this field still claim that "the mechanism is as yet unknown", referring to Nocturnal erection (quoted from the article you suggested, Lue, et al, Physiology of Penile Erection at http://www.duj.com/Article/Lue.html).

 

 

…the penis IS paralyzed during REM sleep and erections ARE caused by muscle action… Muscle tissue around the arteries leading into the penis is usually contracted to limit blood flow. When this muscle tissue is relaxed, the increased blood flow causes an erection.

 

It seems to me that you mixed up Skeletal muscle with smooth muscle.

 

First, it is true that we are almost completely paralyzed in REM sleep due to the main skeletal muscle lost muscle tone. However, as my understanding through reading, our smooth muscle, cardiac muscle (found only in heart), and even many small skeletal muscle (like eye muscles) are never paralyzed in REM. This is why we have this rapid eye movement during REM sleep.

 

Second, when talking about muscle of penile erection, we are referring to the smooth muscle, not skeletal muscle: "The penile erectile tissue, specifically the cavernous smooth musculature and the smooth muscles of the arteriolar and arterial walls, plays a key role in the erectile process." (quoted from the article you suggested, Lue, et al, Physiology of Penile Erection at http://www.duj.com/Article/Lue.html, (emphasis added)). Therefore, your statement of "the penis IS paralyzed during REM sleep" is untrue, as there is no skeletal muscle in the penile.

 

 

Contrary to what you might think' date=' a relaxed penis is a hard penis. This is why men sometimes can't get hard when they're nervous or uptight...

[/quote']

 

At least, this statement of "a relaxed penis is a hard penis" is a misleading. It should be something like this: a penis with relaxed cavernous smooth muscle is a hard penis. As to "why men sometimes can't get hard when they're nervous or uptight", the answer can be found from (again) this article that you referred. Penile erection has three types: psychogenic, reflexogenic and nocturnal. Men sometimes can't get hard because they can't keep their attention on the sexual stimuli and fantasy when they're nervous.

 

 

So how is it that a famous doctor and physiologist like Dement could be so wrong about this? Hell' date=' he's the one who named this sleep state REM. (See http://www.dushkin.com/connectext/psy/ch05/bio5.mhtml ) I just can't believe that he would say those things -- nor have I been able to find those statements anywhere among the hundreds of sites with quotes from "The Promise of Sleep". So, I would like to see a link to where that came from, because it sounds like something a person with no uderstanding of physiology at all would say -- not the pioneer who first discovered that men get erections during the paralysis of REM sleep.

[/quote']

 

My understanding, about his statement: "since erections are not caused by muscle action but by blood engorgement", is that Dr Dement was referring to skeletal muscle here, as the cavernous smooth muscle was called as sponge-like vascular tissue before. (just my 2 cents)

 

Last, I don't think you could find a link from the internet, cause I typed letter by letter myself from the book: "The Promise of Sleep" (borrowed from the library).

[devillaine]

hi, iam doing a thesis on NPT - nocturnal penile tumescence. (NPT)

 

It's nite occurring event in REM sleep, coz unknown as such. It has been used as tool to diagnosis erectile dysfunction , esp to diff between pshy and organic coz. Many papers have been published and people are trying to link it with IIEF, IPSS and AMS etc.

 

I would hope if someone may share more info on this topic with me.

 

Tahnks

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Peel,

 

Its a bloody event. Muscles mainly to support the urethral.

 

Its all abouot the inflow and outflow, with a balance between the 2. We used NEVA scan to diagnose the two graphically.