Objective Global Cooling

[jduff]

A few months back there was a topic called Objective Global Warming. While I do not support the Global Warming claims. I do support the scientists that do want to make the world better. As such this topic is not here to debate whether Global Cooling is happening or not. Rather it is to see what ideas anyone has to help curve the ramifications of Global Cooling. Like global warming, cooling has just as many nasty effects for the world. I will name a few off hand!

 

1.Crops no longer grow in areas that were once fertile. This is undoubtedly the most horrific of things that will occur with a global cooling. This also leads to another disaster.

 

2. Famine, if crops no longer grow in viable areas and a shortage happens. Many many people will or may die due to starvation.

 

3. Species extinction, as shown through history, cool downs often cause species to die off.

 

4. Transportation, with a global cooling certain forms of transport may be less viable than others.

 

These are just a few. I am quite sure there are many more. If you know of more please feel free to post them. Also, I am writing this not to debate it rather to see what answers in this community can give to remedy some of the issues with global cooling. How do we save crops? How can we prevent loss of life? What can we set in place to preserve humanity? What would need to be changed to promote better logistics and transport? These are some of the questions.

 

I am quite sure some of you have answers for such a terrible thing. Since many of you have answers for global warming. It would only make sense that the bright minds can also give ideas for the above!

 

I also placed this topic in politics since both sides are agenda driven. Thanks for reading!! Lets read your ideas!

Edited January 8, 2014 by jduff

[swansont]

I realize this is in politics, but since you ask about ramifications, what is the evidence that the planet is cooling? I know there is an oft-repeated canard about no heating for the last 15 years, but that's a distinct claim from cooling taking place.

[Rajnish Kaushik]

this is an good topic to debate indeed

 

one point can be that this year the winter arrived soon and is much more colder then the earlier

[Airbrush]

We are currently between ice ages. Global warming will probably dominate the next few thousand years. I've heard estimates of 1,500 years to 80,000 years until the next ice age begins. Global warming is a horrible disaster, but how much worse would the next ice age be? How would humans of thousands of years in the future survive another snowball Earth? Tough but doable with a smaller population, but how would food be produced?

 

"The Earth has been in an interglacial period known as the Holocene for more than 11,000 years. It was conventional wisdom that the typical interglacial period lasts about 12,000 years, but this has been called into question recently. For example, an article in Nature[36] argues that the current interglacial might be most analogous to a previous interglacial that lasted 28,000 years. Predicted changes in orbital forcing suggest that the next glacial period would begin at least 50,000 years from now, even in absence of human-made global warming[37] (see Milankovitch cycles). Moreover, anthropogenic forcing from increased greenhouse gases might outweigh orbital forcing for as long as intensive use of fossil fuels continues."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_ages

Edited January 10, 2014 by Airbrush

[imatfaal]

We are currently between ice ages. Global warming will probably dominate the next few thousand years. I've heard estimates of 1,500 years to 80,000 years until the next ice age begins. Global warming is a horrible disaster, but how much worse would the next ice age be? How would humans of thousands of years in the future survive another snowball Earth? Tough but doable with a smaller population, but how would food be produced?

 

"The Earth has been in an interglacial period known as the Holocene for more than 11,000 years. It was conventional wisdom that the typical interglacial period lasts about 12,000 years, but this has been called into question recently. For example, an article in Nature[36] argues that the current interglacial might be most analogous to a previous interglacial that lasted 28,000 years. Predicted changes in orbital forcing suggest that the next glacial period would begin at least 50,000 years from now, even in absence of human-made global warming[37] (see Milankovitch cycles). Moreover, anthropogenic forcing from increased greenhouse gases might outweigh orbital forcing for as long as intensive use of fossil fuels continues."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_ages

 

The amount by how much we have changed in 1500 years is immense - the fifth century was the fall of the western roman empire in the West (I am afraid my history is limited to the West - not sure what was happening in the East).

 

If you extend the period to 50000 years - then we are at a point where humanity is a group of isolated tribes dotted around the world but not yet reaching great swathes of the globe (the americas, the far east etc), the neanderthals were still around, etc...

 

If we are still around in 50,000 years we will have little trouble coping with the climate - the problem is the next hundred or so years

[jduff]

I realize this is in politics, but since you ask about ramifications, what is the evidence that the planet is cooling?

I have noticed a direct correlation between Global Cooling and the amount of Republicans in D.C. The less Republicans in D.C the more Global Warming shows itself. The more Republicans in D.C the more Global Cooling shows itself. There are many Republicans in D.C currently. So its definitely getting cooler!

 

Of course, this is only in the past 6 years. Probably will hit a FULL Ice Age this coming Nov!

Edited January 13, 2014 by jduff

[overtone]

 

 

this topic is not here to debate whether Global Cooling is happening or not. Rather it is to see what ideas anyone has to help curve the ramifications of Global Cooling.

The answers would depend significantly on the cause and rate of the cooling - if it were a natural cooling of the kinds that ushered in most of the previous glaciations, then we will have thousands of years to adjust and many ways to adapt; if it is a sudden event, something like the recent human boosting of the CO₂ concentration causing significant warming within a couple of centuries, then we will have much less in the way of response.

 

 

one point can be that this year the winter arrived soon and is much more colder then the earlier

That is not true. North America is not the planet.

[imatfaal]

...

 

That is not true. North America is not the planet.

It was you that first narrowed the area to North America - not the OP nor the poster you quoted.

 

And please learn to use the multiquote or reply to posts in turn as otherwise it is very hard to discern who you are responding too.

[overtone]

 

 

It was you that first narrowed the area to North America - not the OP nor the poster you quoted.

It was the claim that the winter was early and cold that narrowed the area. I addressed the claim, and posted the key factoid for support.

 

 

 

it is very hard to discern who you are responding too

I'm not responding to posters, but posts. Helps me avoid spreading certain common juvenilia I notice from being subjected.

[imatfaal]

It was the claim that the winter was early and cold that narrowed the area. I addressed the claim, and posted the key factoid for support.

 

No, it was your prejudice that narrowed the area. The poster might have been referring to North America - but I think on the whole as the poster has mentioned he lives in India and India has had a particularly fierce winter that he was not...

 

I'm not responding to posters, but posts. Helps me avoid spreading certain common juvenilia I notice from being subjected.

 

Posts, posters - it makes your responses more difficult to follow than they need be. And frankly your second sentence above is nonsense.

[overtone]

 

 

No, it was your prejudice that narrowed the area.

It was my automatic recourse to familiarity with my home country that provided the counterexample, you mean. I don't have at hand information on what the weather's been like wherever the poster is from, but I do know without hitting a key that North America's recent winter is a perfect example of the poster's error - much easier than asking, which granted would have been more polite and welcoming.

 

I don't want to welcome that - too many years now, of that. Time for everybody to yank head and come to Jesus.

 

 

 

it makes your responses more difficult to follow than they need be. And frankly your second sentence above is nonsense.

Is it, now.

 

Take another look:

 

Helps me avoid spreading certain common juvenilia I notice from being subjected.

[John Cuthber]

this is an good topic to debate indeed

 

one point can be that this year the winter arrived soon and is much more colder then the earlier

The UK just had the warmest December on record.

Why do you think this Winter came early and is cold?

Edited January 16, 2014 by John Cuthber

[Rajnish Kaushik]

The UK just had the warmest December on record.

Why do you think this Winter came early and is cold?

but the winter is coller in all countries

[swansont]

but the winter is coller in all countries

Can you back this up with some citation or link to reliable data?

[Rajnish Kaushik]

http://www.almanac.com/content/almanacs-long-range-weather-forecast-us-and-canada

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/weather/winter-weather-2014-historic-feeze-could-break-midwest-temperature-records

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/78234-coldest-temperature-record-for-winter-201314/

see these please

[Strange]

http://www.almanac.com/content/almanacs-long-range-weather-forecast-us-and-canada

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/weather/winter-weather-2014-historic-feeze-could-break-midwest-temperature-records

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/78234-coldest-temperature-record-for-winter-201314/

see these please

 

Those are about the US, which is not "all countries". The UK may still have had the warmest winter on record (certainly for over 20 years).

[Rajnish Kaushik]

 

Those are about the US, which is not "all countries". The UK may still have had the warmest winter on record (certainly for over 20 years).

in India its the collest winter in last 23 years (In Delhi)

[swansont]

in India its the collest winter in last 23 years (In Delhi)

 

 

That makes 3 countries, which is well short of "all". (Also, a link to a discussion board is not what I'd classify as a link to reliable data)

[iNow]

Worse still, winters even just within the US are NOT getting colder.

 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/

The average temperature for the contiguous U.S. during 2013 was 52.4°F, 0.3°F above the 20th century average, tying with 1980 as the 37th warmest year in the 119-year period of record. The year consisted of a warmer-than-average winter, summer, and autumn, and a cooler-than-average spring.

<snip>

For the contiguous U.S., 2013 started off warmer than average, with the 20th warmest winter (December 2012-February 2013) on record. The nationally averaged temperature of 34.3°F was 1.9°F above the 20th century average for the season.

Facts matter, and this is not hard to explore or confirm before posting. This isn't a "make up any damned silly thing you want" forum. It's a science forum.

[John Cuthber]

This whole thread is "wrong headed".

Should I set up a thread titled "Objective plague of frogs"?

 

There's no evidence of such a plague and, in fact, the evidence shows that many frogs are endangered.

But we could still pointlessly debate what we could do to ward off the problems due to massive numbers of frogs.

Here in the UK we could, for example, block up the Channel tunnel to prevent the frogs hopping over from mainland Europe.

 

Well, lets kick off

As such this topic is not here to debate whether Global Cooling a plague of frogs is happening or not. Rather it is to see what ideas anyone has to help curve the ramifications of Global Cooling a plague of frogs. Like the deaths of lots of amphibians* , Global Cooling a plague of frogs has just as many nasty effects for the world.

 

*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8038722/Frogs-on-verge-of-dying-out-in-parts-of-Britain-due-to-disease.html

[CharonY]

We need to breed more storks and develop better frog recipes.

[jduff]

Now to the REAL DEAL! Enough argument with liberal intellectuals who only do it for a agenda. Here you go and enjoy! Liberal crony scientists EAT YOUR HEART OUT!http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html

[moth]

If I accepted your argument that a list of papers about AGW alarm supported your argument for objective global cooling somehow, the disclaimer from the webpage would still cause me some concern.
from your link:
... While certain authors on the list cannot be labeled skeptics (e.g. Harold Brooks, Roger Pielke Jr., Roger Pielke Sr.) their paper(s) or results from their paper(s) can still support skeptic's arguments against ACC/AGW alarm. Various papers are mutually exclusive and should be considered independently. This list will be updated and corrected as necessary.
Where are the interpretations of a paper that got a paper on the list displayed?

[jduff]

If I accepted your argument that a list of papers about AGW alarm supported your argument for objective global cooling somehow, the disclaimer from the webpage would still cause me some concern.

from your link:

... While certain authors on the list cannot be labeled skeptics (e.g. Harold Brooks, Roger Pielke Jr., Roger Pielke Sr.) their paper(s) or results from their paper(s) can still support skeptic's arguments against ACC/AGW alarm. Various papers are mutually exclusive and should be considered independently. This list will be updated and corrected as necessary.

Where are the interpretations of a paper that got a paper on the list displayed?

Is the glass half full or half empty Why I posted this subject in politics! It is interesting when two sides can lay claim.

[moth]

Maybe the glass is too big?
I'm not staking a claim, my views on AGW could change with new evidence.
I'm old enough to remember the "controversy" about smoking tobacco and it seems like the AGW-deniers are using the same tactics the cigarette industry used to delay acceptance of the facts by the public.