Alan McDougall Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Why I detest fundamentalist exclusive religious dogma or any exclusive cultist belief Note! not all religions are exclusive or judgmental I detest the cultic or religious organization who have a judgmental belief and unspeakably gall to suggest that unless, joined them for life adhered totally to their belief and lived exactly in the ways demanded by them , followed their teaching to the letter all the days of your life. God was going to burn you in unspeakable everlasting eternal punishment in hell. If this understanding of theirs were correct it makes god out to be the worst kind of psychopath, punishing fallible a person, for a finite transgression, with the most terrible infinite punishment. Most fundamentalist Christians , believe the above chapter to be true To sum it up you get an:- "Infinite" punishment for a "finite" sin or crime against god Edited January 17, 2014 by Alan McDougall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 For me, that part was just another piece of evidence that mounted up to a preponderance. This god is perfect but creates imperfection (and would then curse it for being so), and deceives its followers by making the universe appear to be billions of years old but entreats them to follow its Word to the letter (which calculates that the universe is mere thousands of years old). When you start interpreting the Bible literally you run into hundreds of contractions as well. Fundamentalism creates more questions and answers nothing. I allow for that small possibility I may be wrong about gods overall, but I'm as certain as I'll ever be that fundamentalism is wrong in all its aspects. Quite frankly, if the Abrahamic god required a fundamental approach to worshiping it, I think it would change my character so much that if I were a god, I'd reject me for being such a hypocrite. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 For me, that part was just another piece of evidence that mounted up to a preponderance. This god is perfect but creates imperfection (and would then curse it for being so), and deceives its followers by making the universe appear to be billions of years old but entreats them to follow its Word to the letter (which calculates that the universe is mere thousands of years old). When you start interpreting the Bible literally you run into hundreds of contractions as well. Fundamentalism creates more questions and answers nothing. I allow for that small possibility I may be wrong about gods overall, but I'm as certain as I'll ever be that fundamentalism is wrong in all its aspects. Quite frankly, if the Abrahamic god required a fundamental approach to worshiping it, I think it would change my character so much that if I were a god, I'd reject me for being such a hypocrite. I have often wondered if I could improve on creation, with the assumption that a god created our universe, with special emphasis to life on our particular planet. Why do we we have to kill our fellow creatures to get energy to carry on living? Is eat or be eaten the best idea that a god of infinite intelligence could come up with, after an eternity of thinking? I would, if I were to have his assumed attributes, come up with a way of life getting all its energy directly from the sun without hurting or killing other life form, I am not talking about plant photosynthesizes, but a sort of solar electric skin that absorbs sufficient energy directly from the sun to sustain life? Maybe this could be a reason for rejecting creation to the work of an intelligence god, thus making evolution a much better answer to how we got to exist in the way we now do after billions of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekan Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Alan and Phi reject the idea of God as "the worst kind of psychopath" I chime in with that, but - What if God really is that way - a frightening crazed Being, who subjects us to everlasting torment in hell, unless we worship Him. Most people throughout history seem to have suspected that God is like that. Thus He needs to be constantly placated, and appeased. By sacrificies in ancient times. Nowadays, by constant worshipping and praising in Churches every Sunday. Or even five times a day. If He doesn't get enough attention and ego-boosting, He strikes us with His wrath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringer Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Then fundamentalism is still wrong Alan and Phi reject the idea of God as "the worst kind of psychopath" I chime in with that, but - What if God really is that way - a frightening crazed Being, who subjects us to everlasting torment in hell, unless we worship Him. Most people throughout history seem to have suspected that God is like that. Thus He needs to be constantly placated, and appeased. By sacrificies in ancient times. Nowadays, by constant worshipping and praising in Churches every Sunday. Or even five times a day. If He doesn't get enough attention and ego-boosting, He strikes us with His wrath! Then fundamentalism is still wrong and ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Alan and Phi reject the idea of God as "the worst kind of psychopath" I chime in with that, but - What if God really is that way - a frightening crazed Being, who subjects us to everlasting torment in hell, unless we worship Him. Most people throughout history seem to have suspected that God is like that. Thus He needs to be constantly placated, and appeased. By sacrificies in ancient times. Nowadays, by constant worshipping and praising in Churches every Sunday. Or even five times a day. If He doesn't get enough attention and ego-boosting, He strikes us with His wrath! Read my post again carefully neiither did Phi or I did not reject the "idea of god as the worst kind of psychopath" I said the exclusive fundamentalists do that and put the rest of us in hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 To illustrate my disillusion with exclusive religion, a case in point was Jimmy Swagggard, a hell and brimstone evangelist, who screamed and shouted from the pulpit against all sins, especially sexual sins and depravity, he was caught red handed at a brothel trying to secure the favours of a prostitute for the night. A few days later in front of his congregation , he wept and wept asking say over and over again “ I have sinned I have sinned” He pleaded with God and his congregation to forgive him, and I think many of them did forgive him for the terrible sin he had done. However, this sad story did not end there, a week or so after his desperate plea for forgiveness, a police officer pulled over a car for a suspected traffic violation, who do you suppose he found inside the car? No less than Jimmy Swagggard and a prostitute in both in a very in indecent and compromising situation. Jimmy got off with a warning from the law, but this hypocrite did not learn from his mistakes or from the very words he had preached and screamed about for over 30 years. Twice this hypocrite was caught doing the same act of depravity resulting finally in most of his congregation, not forgiving him and leaving his church, extremely disillusioned like I was. However, unbelievably, some of his congregation overlooked all his discretion and remained his followers. This was a person who I had admired as a man of God, who preached ethics and morality and now I found out he was nothing but a secret sexual pervert. After that I could never listen, his preaching or to his music and felt his Christian calling was removed from him by God. Off course he was/is not the only hypocrite preacher out there. Many of them are puffed up with pride at their supposed wisdom, became extremely wealthy, residing in huge mansions their own airplanes and traveled the world first class to sprout their nonsense to the world at large. Alan McDougall brother writes on Religion My family has never understood my contempt for religion. Mostly they can’t distinguish religion from God and like most people, believe that to subscribe to a religion automatically means belief in God and righteousness. I despise all religion yet I don’t despise the notion of God. My acceptance of the existence of God comes from the incomprehensibility of the cosmos and sheer wonder of nature. The bible means nothing to me, as would the Koran or Talmud, should I ever read these works, which I never will. The background to my strident view of religion comes from my childhood. I don’t blame my parents, they were only doing what they thought was right. They were decent people, misled by equally decent people. From the age of about nine, starting with my convalescence from rheumatic fever and for the next two years, I was confined to home and consequently spent many of my formative childhood years in the company of adults. I was exposed to adult conversation and ultimately my parents involved me in a new sect that they had just joined. The teachings of this sect were as insidious as all other such sects and it crept up on me, and brain washed me, as it did my mother, father and two Aunts. My Aunt my mother’s sister, nearly 80, and my cousin on my father’s side, now over 70, are still members of this sect and have been for over 50 years. This sect differentiated themselves by claiming no name; they wanted to simply be called Christians. However they did assume names such as “The Way”. This name implicitly condemned all other religions. They taught that unless you were one of them, there would be no place in heaven for you. This condemned all of mankind, except them, to eternal damnation. The women were not allowed to cut their hair and wore it in large buns. They were not allowed to expose their arms or legs so they wore long dresses down to the ankles, with full sleeves, not matter how hot it was. Radio was not allowed or TV in the home and no one was permitted to attend a movie or go to a circus. Certainly smoking and drinking were forbidden. My Aunt, my father’s sister, remained a member of the sect all her life and attended the meetings religiously. She kept a radio in her house, under cover. I know that her husband secretly had a smoke when no one was looking! The faithful were kept under control by the preachers who went from home to home in two’s. It was always two women or two men and in many cases they were partners of 20 years or more. They were called workers, even though they never did a day’s work in their lives. "They were the ultimate fun police". They ensured that the woman's hair was kept long, that there were no radios to be seen and that nobody experienced any fun or enjoyment whatsoever. They were the Taliban of the 60s and they had me entrapped. My father eventually saw the light and withdrew and I was quickly able to follow suit. I was free. I was thirteen and there was still some time left for a normal childhood. I had spent nearly three years in this sect, during which time, I never saw a movie, attended a circus, or listened to a radio, other than secretly. I spent these years attending meetings in our home and other homes on Sunday mornings and evenings and Wednesday evenings. I had nothing in common I could share with my friends. Once a year, we attended a convention which lasted for a week, along with hundreds of members from all over the country. The meetings went on all day, interrupted thankfully by tea, lunch and dinner. For ten days we were preached at by workers, their sermons going on interminably. I know I daydreamed through them, they made no sense whatsoever.. Somehow this all seem perfectly reasonable to me at the time but over the years, leading into early adulthood, I increasingly saw the absurdity of it all. During my early adult years I began to see this absurdity mirrored in every religion. Every religion has rules which serve no purpose in furthering the worship of God, yet people mindlessly pursue these rules, even to their deaths. I mention below a few of the absurdities that I have observed over the years. South Africa’s government and state church, the Dutch Reformed Church, justified apartheid based on Christianity. The state airline, flying only white passengers, always had bibles prominently secured to each bulkhead, presumably for the devout Christians in the plane to read up on apartheid. You could not be a real Christian if you were black, it seems. If you are a Muslim, then everybody else is an infidel! The Catholics believe in the infallibility of the Pope. It is impossible to ascribe infallibility to the leader of the Catholic Church, when you look back on the monumental mistakes made this religion over the years, all with the blessing of the same infallible Pope. Infallibility means never having to say sorry! Muslims on the other hand seem to think that the murder of innocents can justified by objectives of their religion. Those that execute these crimes are little worse than those Muslims who commit no such crimes, yet stay silent! They all stand condemned by their religion. This is different only in degree to the Catholic and Anglican leaders who knowingly hid paedophiles in the church leadership. Yet these same religions condemn gay people who commit no crime and even if by some stretch of the imagination, you decide that this is a crime, and then it is, at the very worst, a victimless crime. How much worse is it to condone the abuse of a child, by a person placed in a position of absolute trust? If you can’t trust a man of God, then who can you trust? The Israelis and Hezbollah kill innocent people and both of them do this in the name of God. Surely they can see that the God to which they both ascribe infinite benevolence, would not countenance the murder of innocents or otherwise. Surely they can see that they both can’t be right. Surely they can see that if they both believe in the infinite benevolence of God, that they must both be wrong. But of course they can’t! Buddhist’s are not involved in wars, abuse and don’t enforce their teachings on others. Buddhists believe that you should kill no living creature and this is an admirable philosophy. Yet they eat meat. Their reasoning behind this is that the person eating the meat does not kill the animal. Lest I stand condemned by those that follow me for these views, let me add that I despise religion, not God or the people that worship God through these religions. For these people I have only compassion, for all people need meaning in their lives and need structure and tradition against which they can measure their worth. To the extent that religion might serve these ends, it is good. To the extent that it serves the ends of its leaders and founders, then it is not good. If there is a God, these leaders of the church will face him, as will I, to justify the deceit and the wrongdoings committed in his name during our lifetimes. I expect however to face a benevolent God, if such a being exits, who will be wise enough to see my misdeeds in the context of my life and my ability to comprehend and interpret them according to my conscience,, as will he those billions of people less fortunate than me. He will disregard the religion they pursued, only evaluating their life and deeds objectively I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticore Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Fundamentalist preachers seem to come in two varieties - the purely deranged and the scam artist. The simplest way to tell the difference is that the scammer will end every sermon with something along the lines of: "Give money! Give lots of money! Give it to me! Give it now!" Muslims on the other hand seem to think that the murder of innocents can justified by objectives of their religion. Those that execute these crimes are little worse than those Muslims who commit no such crimes, yet stay silent! They all stand condemned by their religion. I know at least as many Muslims as I do Christians. In general, I find them better company. Edit: Corrected typo. Edited March 11, 2017 by Manticore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Muslims will tell you that Islam is a religion of peace and if you disagree they will kill you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Muslims will tell you that Islam is a religion of peace and if you disagree they will kill you! Fo someone who hates religious dogma, you are pretty dogmatic (and irrational) about religion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Don't judge all Muslims by the dogma of some. There are many different flavours of Islam and a lot of them do speak out against the atrocities of others. Also note that of the people killed by Islamist terrorist, most are Muslim.As I understand Christianity, there is in most flavours absolutely no reason to behave any particular way during your life. The only thing you have to do is repent when you die and acknowledge the sacrifice Christ supposedly did to abolish your sins.That said, people belief all kind of silly things; their belief in being rewarded/punished in the afterlife is far from the worst or silliest. I don't know who's quote it is, but I like it: "If religions didn't want me to laugh at them, then they shouldn't have such silly beliefs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Don't judge all Muslims by the dogma of some. There are many different flavours of Islam and a lot of them do speak out against the atrocities of others. Also note that of the people killed by Islamist terrorist, most are Muslim.That's because most Muslims live in Muslim majority countries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 In the New Testament, there is not one word about killing the infidels or cutting off peoples heads it you do not adhere to their dogma. Christians will also say they are a religion of peace and it is also very true some of them are not peaceful at all! BUT THEY WILL NOT CHOP OFF YOUR HEAD IF YOU DISAGREE -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 In the New Testament, there is not one word about killing the infidels or cutting off peoples heads it you do not adhere to their dogma. So you have your certificate in Cherry Picking. Well done. Why do you think it is acceptable to be such a vile bigot? You need to remove this line from your sig: "Lets keep it friendly and polite!" Or add one saying that you are a hypocrite as well as a bigot. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 So you have your certificate in Cherry Picking. Well done. Why do you think it is acceptable to be such a vile bigot? You need to remove this line from your sig: "Lets keep it friendly and polite!" Or add one saying that you are a hypocrite as well as a bigot. I am sure you are a vile Muslim that if you got me under your chopper would promptly cut off my old grey head. To call me a bigot in light of THE ISIS MONSTERS AND THEIR ACTS AND THEIR UNSPEAKABLE DEPRAVITY AND HIDEOUS BRUTALITY IS A JOKE! -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I am sure you are a vile Muslim that if you got me under your chopper would promptly cut off my old grey head. To call me a bigot in light of THE ISIS MONSTERS AND THEIR ACTS AND THEIR UNSPEAKABLE DEPRAVITY AND HIDEOUS BRUTALITY IS A JOKE! You are a classic bigot because you are accusing all members of a group (or several groups, as there are different branches of Islam) as behaving the same way as one bunch of (arguably non-Islamic) terrorists. Would you say that all white men are rapists? Or that all Americans are serial killers? I will just put you on my ignore list with the other scum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 You are a classic bigot because you are accusing all members of a group (or several groups, as there are different branches of Islam) as behaving the same way as one bunch of (arguably non-Islamic) terrorists. Would you say that all white men are rapists? Or that all Americans are serial killers? I will just put you on my ignore list with the other scum. Couldn't agree more, to say "vile Muslims" is the joke, if it weren't tragic in every sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydasaint Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) So you have your certificate in Cherry Picking. Well done. Why do you think it is acceptable to be such a vile bigot? You need to remove this line from your sig: "Lets keep it friendly and polite!" Or add one saying that you are a hypocrite as well as a bigot. I agree with Strange. By all means hate religion; I have no relation to organised religion because all three mainstream religions have fallen into the same trap - formalism and dogmatic adherence. The God I believe in is an intellectual and a forgiving entity who has kindness as Its core value. Alan, you do come across as a man who believes all the bull**** that the media broadcast as truth but the great book "Manufacturing Consent" should enlighten you to the true nature of the press. Mass media play an especially important role in democratic societies. They are presupposed to act as intermediary vehicles that reflect public opinion, respond to public concerns and make the electorate cognizant of state policies, important events and viewpoints. The fundamental principles of democracy depend upon the notion of a reasonably informed electorate. The ‘propaganda model’ of media operations laid out and applied by Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media postulates that elite media interlock with other institutional sectors in ownership, management and social circles, effectively circumscribing their ability to remain analytically detached from other dominant institutional sectors. The model argues that the net result of this is self-censorship without any significant coercion. Media, according to this framework, do not have to be controlled nor does their behaviour have to be patterned, as it is assumed that they are integral actors in class warfare, fully integrated into the institutional framework of society, and act in unison with other ideological sectors, i.e. the academy,to establish, enforce, reinforce and ‘police’ corporate hegemony http://web4.uwindsor.ca/users/w/winter/40-328.nsf/0/10ff8b04ff3a317885256d88005720f6/$FILE/Klaehn.critical.review.pdf Edited March 12, 2017 by jimmydasaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 In the New Testament, there is not one word about killing the infidels or cutting off peoples heads it you do not adhere to their dogma. Christians will also say they are a religion of peace and it is also very true some of them are not peaceful at all! BUT THEY WILL NOT CHOP OFF YOUR HEAD IF YOU DISAGREE Have you ever actually spoken to a Muslim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 You are a classic bigot because you are accusing all members of a group (or several groups, as there are different branches of Islam) as behaving the same way as one bunch of (arguably non-Islamic) terrorists. Would you say that all white men are rapists? Or that all Americans are serial killers? I will just put you on my ignore list with the other scum. Well it is true that you have to be a scumbag yourself to be an expert of another. Yes I have spoken to many Muslims and it is not them that I despise it is the ISIS BEASTS THAT RAPE, MURDER, BED LITTLE SLAVE GIRL OF 7 YEARS OF AGE. Muhammad was an evil illiterate warlord with not one good bone in his reprobate body. Swallow the below you blind fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yes I have spoken to many Muslims and it is not them that I despise. Then why do you think ISIS in any way represents all Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity_Boy Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Why I detest fundamentalist exclusive religious dogma or any exclusive cultist belief Note! not all religions are exclusive or judgmental I detest the cultic or religious organization who have a judgmental belief and unspeakably gall to suggest that unless, joined them for life adhered totally to their belief and lived exactly in the ways demanded by them , followed their teaching to the letter all the days of your life. God was going to burn you in unspeakable everlasting eternal punishment in hell. If this understanding of theirs were correct it makes god out to be the worst kind of psychopath, punishing fallible a person, for a finite transgression, with the most terrible infinite punishment. Most fundamentalist Christians , believe the above chapter to be true To sum it up you get an:- "Infinite" punishment for a "finite" sin or crime against god Well, hell....LOL, see what I did there?.....You're preaching to the choir on this topic, my friend. I have long detected those sorts of insufferable people. Why would anybody liked them? What's there to like? The trick is to take them with a sizeable mass of sodium chloride. And maybe even feel sorry for them? What a wasted life they have. To squander it alienating other human beings, while obsequiously worshipping a God who doesn't even exist. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan McDougall Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Then why do you think ISIS in any way represents all Muslims? Are you real ISIS are Muslims fundamentalist Muslims, that follow Islams teachings in extreme exactitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yes I have spoken to many Muslims and it is not them that I despise it is the ISIS BEASTS THAT RAPE, MURDER, BED LITTLE SLAVE GIRL OF 7 YEARS OF AGE. Then why do you keep tarring all Muslims with the same brush? If you just said "I hate the disgusting things that ISIS are doing", then I doubt anyone would disagree. Instead, you keep making racist, bigoted and moronic statements about all Muslims being killers. By doing this you have become a tool of ISIS, as part of their motivation is to create hatred, fear and distrust. Are you real ISIS are Muslims fundamentalist Muslims, that follow Islams teachings in extreme exactitude! Bollocks. And even if true (which it isn't) they do not represent all Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Are you real ISIS are Muslims fundamentalist Muslims, that follow Islams teachings in extreme exactitude! I know Muslims who take the Quran literally in extreme exactitude that disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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