PhD

[MulderMan]

How do you obtain a PhD? Is it only a post-graduate course, I'd be curious for some more info!

[Sayonara]

A PhD is a post-graduate course, yes. It's a research degree (sometimes supervised), which requires you to eventually produce a thesis.

[swansont]

In physics it's generally four to twelve years of working long hours as an indentured servant. If you are starting from a Bachelor's degree, it's a few years of classes and then life in the lab (if it's experimental) or on the computer (if it's theoretical), doing your thesis advisor's bidding. It takes a mix of intelligence and stubbornness. The payoff is not necessarily a higher salary, but the opportunity to work on more interesting projects.

 

My degree took six years, which was the average for physics in the US at the time. I think it's gone up since then.

[MulderMan]

I dont think id have the nack for that . Do they open more job prospects etc more than a masters for example?

[swansont]

I dont think id have the nack for that . Do they open more job prospects etc more than a masters for example?

 

In many, but not all, cases. That's what I meant by "more interesting work." It's certainly the case that the jobs I've held would not have been open to someone with a lesser degree. However, you do run the risk of being overqualified for some jobs, where they would rather hire someone who is less-credentialed (presumably so they can pay them less).

 

There are also concerns in business over hiring types who are "too academic-oriented." The model of getting a product to production is often incompatible with the curiosity of discovery. But it all depends on the circumstances of the jobs.

[5614]

There are also concerns in business over hiring types who are "too academic-oriented." The model of getting a product to production is often incompatible with the curiosity of discovery. But it all depends on the circumstances of the jobs.

Is this applicable even in the physics world? Or was that more of a general comment?

[swansont]

Is this applicable even in the physics world? Or was that more of a general comment?

 

I've heard of companies that wouldn't hire physics PhDs because of the concern that they wouldn't have a business focus. But it's not universal. Plenty of academic types go off and work for or even start up companies.

[5614]

I've heard of companies that wouldn't hire physics PhDs because of the concern that they wouldn't have a business focus.

Is this just one or two companies who because of extremist views get a lot of attention, or is this a more common thing?

 

As a student think about PhD physics it'd be very useful to know... ads/disads of getting the PhD.

[AzurePhoenix]

What about other PhDs, like in zoology or other life sciences? Are they less lengthy and soul-consuming?

[Glider]

It depends. Strictly speaking, a PhD is a research degree. The requirement is that you produce a piece of research that is novel, original and adds something to the established body of knowledge, and that you do this independently, although under supervision (not least for the sake of ethical clearance & insurance). The length requirement differs from place to place. The maximum used to be 100,000 words but many institutions have reduced this to around 80,000.

 

However, in some disciplines, and in some countries, PhDs are becoming taught (modular) courses, which kind of negates the Ph bit, if you think about it. PhDs can take as little as 2 years if you are organised, well supervised and start with a masters degree. If you do a PhD by transfer it takes longer. A PhD by transfer means that you start with a BSc, do a year or two, then submit a detailed report which should show that what you have done is worthy of a masters, and that what you have still to do stands some chance of fulfilling the requirements of a PhD. If you get through that, your transfer is accepted and you are then officially on a PhD, and you spend the next couple of years on that.

 

The time taken can very significantly with the toipic you have chosen and the complexity of your methods. I knew a guy who did his part-time, and took 14 years to complete. I did mine (PhD by transfer) part-time. I won a scholarship, but that only paid my fees. I had to work to pay the rent and it was a nightmare. There simply aren't enough hours to work enough to pay the rent, live and do a PhD. It took me from Feb. 96 to Oct. 03. Happily, I sailed the viva. I couldn't have taken having to do a significant re-write.

 

I think PhDs are supposed to be a bit soul destroying. In many ways they are a test of endurance rather than a test of ability. I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone does theirs part-time. Just maintaining focus and drive over that length of time is a problem.

 

Having said that, they are supposed to demonstrate your abilities as an independent researcher; to be able to identify a research question, to formulate sensible hypotheses, to design and construct valid methods for testing those hypotheses, to implement those methods, generate meaningful data, perform appropriate analyses and form sensible and meaningful conclusions from the results and ultimately to generate something that adds something tangiable to the existing body of knowledge in the area. They aren't really supposed to be a breeze.

 

I think one of the most important factors is that you have a genuine interest in the topic you are researching though. If you don't have that, you just won't be able to run with it over any length of time, you'll just forget why you started. I was amazed when I found out the proportion of PhD candidates who drop out in the first year or two.

[Skye]

They typically take 3 1/2 to 4 years here, working full time. Students that I know are encouraged to get it done within that time.

 

The typical progression is to do a BSc, then an honours project. This is a year long research project under supervision that usually includes a literature review, some course work and a thesis of around 20,000 words. After doing this you get a BSc (Hons) degree. You can usually do a PhD after this. From what I've seen they all seem to still involve a 100,000 word thesis.

[myeditorial]

Most often the Ph.D degrees are treated as Diploma in philosophy, not as doctorate in philosopohy.

 

Beware,

You should fininsh your Ph.D, else your Ph.D will finish you.

[swansont]

I'm pretty sure mine says "Doctor of Philosophy"

[ecoli]

PhD stands for Philosophiae Doctor, Latin for Doctor of Philosophy.

[badchad]

Interesting to hear what other countries do and about "transfer" Ph.D's and such. Several programs here in the U.S. allow you to do a Ph.D. directly after a bachelors degree (without any masters); In fact, at my university, a masters means nothing. There are masters students in my Ph.D. program and they are expected to take about 5 years to finish the same as candidated directly out of undergrad.

 

Also, (at least in the more typical "science" fields) our Ph.Ds are paid for in full. That is, since we're bascially slave labor for a professor, ALL tuition fees are paid for/waived. In addition to that we receive a small stipend ($20,000/year U.S.). I do agree with what most here have said however, seems to me the degree is designed to break your soul, and is often more a test of endurance. Just my two cents as usual.

[Hellbender]

What about other PhDs, like in zoology or other life sciences? Are they less lengthy and soul-consuming?

 

I would guess almost equally as much. I have looked into a Zoology PHD, and it was pretty much the same, albiet a different subject.

[kixxer]

In Germany your PhD-thesis in biology for example takes approx. 3-5 years. Sadly, there is no way of getting a job both in research or industry without your PhD, so 95% of all people with masters degree continue with their thesis.

 

greets,

kixxer

______________

http://www.biologia.fi

[Severian]

I got mine in 3 years.

[swansont]

I got mine in 3 years.

 

From what point are you measuring, and was it experimental or theoretical?

[5614]

To Severian and Swansont: Just outta interest what did you do for your PhD? (Like what specific topic, so my physics teacher did one on superconductors, what did you guys do?)

[swansont]

To Severian and Swansont: Just outta interest what did you do for your PhD? [i'](Like what specific topic, so my physics teacher did one on superconductors, what did you guys do?)[/i]

 

I built a two-dimensional magneto-optic trap that was to be used an atomic-beam source for an atom interferometer. I also fabricated the interferometer gratings at the then-named National Nanofabrication facility. My thesis was entitled "A Rubidium Atomic Funnel" It's laser cooling and trapping combined with atom optics, which are subsets of atomic physics.

[NSX]

Is this applicable even in the physics world? Or was that more of a general comment?

 

I've heard of companies that wouldn't hire physics PhDs because of the concern that they wouldn't have a business focus. But it's not universal. Plenty of academic types go off and work for or even start up companies.

 

My cousin is doing is Masters in Economics, and some of the places he's been applying to say that he is overqualified for the position as well.