Can humanity evolve backwards ?

[nameta9]

Can humanity slowly evolve backwards until it reaches the dark ages again forgetting all its science and technology ? As it is now there are really very few people in the world who understand the hardest parts of technology science and its mathematical procedures. Actually everyone knows just a very small part of our technology. It would not be hard to imagine an evolution where fewer and fewer people know the details until a point reaches where we actually start forgetting crucial parts. Who can make a microprocessor at home? Who knows all the steps necessary? Even the best scientists have to rely on hundreds of other technicians for all the details. Isn't this a very fragile system? If we slowly forget how to do things I think humanity could evolve backwards towards the dark ages, (no wonder religions are becoming popular).

[Aardvark]

As technology becomes more complex humans rely on greater specialisation. It becomes impossible for one person to be an expert in a broad field so individuals narrow the areas of expertise.

 

There is no particular reason to think that things will become forgotten. With the information storage techiques any information forgotten will simply be retrievable from records.

[swansont]

There is no particular reason to think that things will become forgotten. With the information storage techiques any information forgotten will simply be retrievable from records.

 

Because, as we know, storage methods never become obsolete. All my data are on 8-track cassettes and vinyl discs.

[Sayonara]

Which are still playable.

[Newtonian]

for now

[Aardvark]

I find baked clay tablets to be an excellent method of long term info storage.

[reverse]

Yes,

 

I think what you are proposing is entirely possible.

 

You only have to look at the ruins of once mighty empires to see how things can go badly wrong.

 

But remember that the world today is not at a uniform state of civilisation.

 

There are places today that are extremely cultured , but also places where people are still living in mud huts praying to the earth goddess for a good harvest.

[Cadmus]

Can humanity slowly evolve backwards until it reaches the dark ages again forgetting all its science and technology ?

I don't think so. It is conceivable that a rapidly occuring disaster, such as nuclear war or an asteroid striking the earth, might lead to what you are suggesting. However, we are still evolving forward extremely rapidly.

As it is now there are really very few people in the world who understand the hardest parts of technology science and its mathematical procedures.

And yet more people know much more about science than ever before. However, poor the general state of scientific knowledge in the world today, I think that we are not near to losing technology to make television sets. Technology is still increasing in its rate of increase.

Who can make a microprocessor at home? Who knows all the steps necessary? Even the best scientists have to rely on hundreds of other technicians for all the details. Isn't this a very fragile system?

I don't think that anything other than a major and sudden disaster could do this.

[Cadmus]

You only have to look at the ruins of once mighty empires to see how things can go badly wrong.

All empires fall, that is a fact. Yet, I think that if you look at what replaced each of the fallen empires you will in most cases find not that their technological advances disappeared but that the subsequent power structures were even more sophisticated.

[reverse]

huh?

 

never thought of power structures as sophisticated before?

 

just ribbing you.

 

so why were the dark ages called the dark ages, makes me think that they were a lot less sophisticated than say the age of enlightenment. he he my joke light dark...ahhhnevvermind.

 

Do you really think we are more civilized than ever before.

or is it just that we include more groups into what we call humanity.

 

I don’t want to bring up that middle eastern place. but is that really civilised behaviour.

 

maybe you are mistaking flashy gadgets for the level of civilisation.

 

.

[Cadmus]

just ribbing you.

 

so why were the dark ages called the dark ages' date=' makes me think that they were a lot less sophisticated than say the age of enlightenment. he he my joke light dark...ahhhnevvermind.[/quote']A comedian!

 

Do you really think we are more civilized than ever before.

The word that I used is sophisticated. I do think that societies are far more sophisticated now than before. I did not use the word civilized. Before I would use such a word, we would have to discuss what we mean by civilized. Your defintion is as good as mine, although they are most likely different.

 

I don’t want to bring up that middle eastern place. but is that really civilised behaviour.

I did not use the word civilized. War has been around for a major part of mankind's history. Warfare has also become much more sophisticated, which would most likely be considered by many to imply less civilized.

[nameta9]

Aside from the fact that humans have evolved at all is a true miracle. That humans have even appeared on earth is practically impossible from any probability point of view. You need so many perfect combinations of parameters, right temperature, right distance from sun, right mass, right chemical combinations, right proportions of metals, possibility to extract metals, right mathematical and scientific evolution to produce high tech etc. I really think it is just an insane quirk chance that we are here at all ! The only possible theory that can justify we are here at all is an "infinite-infinte" theory where every conceivable combination of universes is all present and we are just in one of them. Point is that imagine after each generation, fewer and fewer students study math and science because they are just not talented enough. This is possible because it is happenining in the US and very few people can solve problems like analytical geometry etc. So after a few decades, add all the religious outgrowth (read christian fundamentalists, muslim radicals, etc) humanity could end up forgetting technology!

[reverse]

ahh go on,

 

the only thing bothering you is that you cant build a PC from scratch.

 

who cares.

 

we will go back to using pencils and paper and things will slow down.

 

I don’t mind.

 

Put one up the world bank that's for sure,

how can you get second by second statistics if you have to wait for the Atlantic mail ship.

 

A world without PC's wouldn’t kill us.

 

It would be ...the Seventies !!!

[Sayonara]

for now

As long as the media exists, and we exist, it's playable.

[nameta9]

And in fact we have been going backwards compared to the seventies. The record player allowed you to see each track of an album and play a precise given piece, because you could recognize the spot and groove pattern. You can't do that anymore so we have decreased "functionality" aside from the fact that tone controls for music are becoming rare. In those years people invented more complex forms of music like progressive rock, seems that today you can't do that anymore. People have forgotten how to do that. The 70s american luxury car interiors where truly plush (large couches with beautiful clothes; see some brochures on the internet) not like all these gray-black crappy funeral home interiors of BMW, Mercedes etc. One make like imperial or oldsmobile 98 could offer you a larger choice of materials and colors than the entire world car market today can (they all choose gray-black with no pattern, crappy stick shift that kills all the leg room , cramped back seats etc)! So they forgot how to do that. What I really think is that maybe technically you could still do the above only that many in these fields can't even "conceive" of them. Granted the examples above are aesthetical, but some are technically related. We will evolve backwards, the 70s actually was the future.

[Sayonara]

What twaddle. We still have the means and the will to produce those things, assuming anyone asks for them.

 

They aren't generally in distributed production any more because they are commercially redundant. Those that are produced as "retro" pieces are usually expensive, due to the style aspect and the cost of non-production line manufacture.

[coquina]

huh?

 

so why were the dark ages called the dark ages' date=' makes me think that they were a lot less sophisticated than say the age of enlightenment. he he my joke light dark...ahhhnevvermind.

 

.[/quote']

There may have been a geological reason for the dark ages. There was a huge explosion of Krakatoa in the year 535, just as they began. PBS did a program - here's a link to the page:

 

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/535ad.htm

Among other things:

Procopius, as quoted by Stothers and Rampino[3], says of 536 AD that ...

 

"during this year a most dread portent took place. For the sun gave forth its light without brightness ... and it seemed exceedingly like the sun in eclipse, for the beams it shed were not clear."

 

John Lydus says ...

 

"The sun became dim ... for nearly the whole year ... so that the fruits were killed at an unseasonable time."

 

Michael the Syrian says ...

 

"the sun became dark and its darkness lasted for eighteen months. Each day it shone for about four hours, and still this light was only a feeble shadow ... the fruits did not ripen and the wine tasted like sour grapes." ( To counter this, sugar of lead was used to sweeten the wine. — Tommy C — )

 

Rampino[2] et al quotes a report from Cassiodorus stating ...

 

"The sun ... seems to have lost its wonted light, and appears of a bluish colour. We marvel to see no shadows of our bodies at noon, to feel the mighty vigour of the sun's heat wasted into feebleness, and the phenomena which accompany an eclipse prolonged through almost a whole year. We have had ... a summer without heat ... the crops have been chilled by north winds ... the rain is denied ..."

 

The plague also went rampant - perhaps due to people not having enough to eat and spending more time inside in close proximity to one another.

[Aardvark]

Can humanity slowly evolve backwards until it reaches the dark ages again forgetting all its science and technology ?

 

As an aside, the dark ages are so know because we know so little about them, the documentary record is highly fragmented. They are not known as the dark ages because they were a time of technological decline. This a common misunderstanding.

 

The 'barbarians' who conquered the Western Roman empire rapidly adapted the old Roman civilisation and developed it further. Many new technologies were developed during the Dark ages.

 

An interesting example is that of the Gothic barbarian invaders of Northern Italy. Within one generation they were putting up public buildings of a greater beauty and sophisication than the previous Romans. The beautiful mosiacs in Ravenna, often mistakenly attributed to the Byzantines, were in fact the product of these dark age barbarians. Art the quality of which is still dazzling with the ability to touch peoples hearts centuries later.

[Cadmus]

There may have been a geological reason for the dark ages. There was a huge explosion of Krakatoa in the year 535, just as they began. PBS did a program - here's a link to the page:

Your link to the page did not come through. I have never heard of this as a factor in the dark ages.

 

Anyway, I have always been under the impression that the dark ages came about with the rise of Islam. Islam surrounded Christiandom, causing an economic stranglehold. The result led to religious confrontations and an evnironment where science, art, literature, and other forms of creativity were highly discouraged.

[Aardvark]

Your link to the page did not come through. I have never heard of this as a factor in the dark ages.

 

Anyway' date=' I have always been under the impression that the dark ages came about with the rise of Islam. Islam surrounded Christiandom, causing an economic stranglehold. The result led to religious confrontations and an evnironment where science, art, literature, and other forms of creativity were highly discouraged.[/quote']

 

It is well documented that the climate became colder, resulting in declining crop yields, towards the end of the Roman Empire. This climate change may also have been a factor in driving nomadic tribes from the Asian steppes into Europe.

 

It was the arrival of these nomadic tribes and there attacks upon the Roman Empire who were responsible for the dark ages. The Roman Empire was unable to withstand these outside pressures and eventually was overrun completely in the West by the 'barbarians' thus heralding the dark ages.

 

Islam was only to become a factor much later, causing problems for the Eastern Roman Empire ( the Byzantine Empire). It never 'encircled' the Christain West or was able to impose any sort of economic stranglehold.

[Cadmus]

It is well documented that the climate became colder,

I do not recall hearing of this. A search on the internet makes this point clear. As well, I see a couple of references to people who suggest that perhaps a comet hit the earth as the cause.

 

It was the arrival of these nomadic tribes and there attacks upon the Roman Empire who were responsible for the dark ages. The Roman Empire was unable to withstand these outside pressures and eventually was overrun completely in the West by the 'barbarians' thus heralding the dark ages.

If this is so, then the dark ages must have been much earlier than I understood. Do you know when the dark ages were supposed to have started and ended?

[Aardvark]

If this is so, then the dark ages must have been much earlier than I understood. Do you know when the dark ages were supposed to have started and ended?

 

To a certain degree the definition of the term 'dark ages' is subjective, amoungst many modern trendy historians the term is highly unfashionable.

 

However, it is generally agreed that the dark ages started with the fall of the Roman Empire in the West. As a completely subjective date i pick 476AD. That is the year that Rome was sacked by barbarians and the last Senate was ended. In that year the old Roman constitution finally ended.

 

As for when the dark ages ended. Take your pick, the rise of the first nation states, for instance Charlemagnes Holy Roman Empire? In which case you could argue that the Dark Ages had ended by 800AD.

 

Or the Christianisation of Europe? In which case 1000AD.

 

After 1000AD we are recognisably looking at the Middle Ages.

[coquina]

I added the link to the original message about Krakatoa to my original message -

here it is again:

 

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/535ad.htm

[Cadmus]

I added the link to the original message about Krakatoa to my original message -

here it is again:

 

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/535ad.htm

Interesting article. I also found on the Internet 2 articles about a comet striking the earth at that time. I wonder if either of these theories is well-accepted.

 

Anyway, I was not aware of the major climate change at that time as being a factor in history. Interesting post.

[swansont]

Which are still playable.

 

Have you tried to buy an 8-track player lately?