Telling someone you want their job

[Popcorn Sutton]

I've been wanting to have a discussion on this for a while now, but never felt like I wanted to post about it until now. I'm going to make a quote from my most recent book. Here it is-

 

 

Even though me and my professor got close, I was so mad and stuck in my “pick-up” ways that I was extremely scared and paranoid every day for at least 2 years. I was a disruption in class. He may have wanted to take me out for a few drinks, and I thought that that would’ve been really cool, but because I was so mad, I probably made him very uncomfortable. One day, I decided to go to his office (as I often did), and I sat down with him. He said “what’s up?” I replied in a tone that I don’t think I’ll ever be able to replicate, but it was obvious that I was mad, and I said “I want your job!” He got so nervous after I said that. I think he was literally shocked. He began to reach into his file cabinet and pull out all the papers necessary to teach the class that I would’ve loved to teach. He started handing me the papers, but his hands were shaking uncontrollably. I twitched my neck to look into his eyes, my mouth dropped open, and I said “don’t I need a PhD?” I didn’t even have my bachelors at that point, but he knew how obsessed I was with neuroscience and linguistics that I’m not sure if it mattered that much to him. Regardless, I could see how nervous he was, and because of that, I was shocked that he would actually be giving me the papers necessary to teach his class. I don’t know what the hell I was thinking because he was the one in charge of hiring at the faculty, but I declined.

 

[CaptainPanic]

Did it occur to you that the professor may have given you the papers similarly to a bank clerk giving a bankrobber the money? Not because they really wish the bankrobbers to have that money, but more to solve a much more immediate problem: a strong feeling of discomfort. Please don't think that I call you a criminal - I just have no other analogue at this moment.

 

Teaching is more than just getting some papers and knowing a lot about the topic. Teaching is also about knowing how to explain something (if you understand it, that does not mean you can explain it to someone else!), and about having some leadership qualities, among other things.

[Phi for All]

Personally, I would feel horrible that MY anger, something I should be responsible for, put another person in a position of such stress. From what you wrote, the teacher wasn't what was making you mad (I don't know what "pick-up ways" are), yet you took it out on someone who could have been a mentor.

 

The way you describe it, you were aware of how creepy you were being, and how badly it was affecting this teacher. Ethically, that's when you should have stopped. Why didn't you?

[CharonY]

The description of the event seems very weird to me. But putting myself in the position of the prof/teacher I would have:

 

Depending on the tone of the student provided suggestions of how to proceed with an academic career (less likely based on the description). If threatening I would call in next-door colleagues as witness and asked to repeat yourself and advised some counselling. If just disruptive I would kick them out of my office.

[swansont]

The description of the event seems very weird to me.

 

Agreed. ("He may have wanted to take me out for a few drinks." )

 

There is no real professional threat from an undergrad saying "I want your job" to a PhD faculty member (even w/o tenure). One possibility is that the nervousness was imagined and by giving you the material the professor was showing you exactly what the burden is when one teaches a class, to give you a chance to realize you were nowhere near qualified to teach it.

 

If the nervousness was real, it's possible he felt physically threatened by you.

[Popcorn Sutton]

There's absolutely no way he felt physically threatened by me. It was almost like we were friends even though we weren't peers. We used to talk to each other after class all the time and he really seemed like he enjoyed my company. I get what captainpanic was saying though; his hands were trembling when he went to hand me the papers.

When I say "pick-up ways", I mean that I have actually taught classes before. By that point I had read so many books on how to be social with girls and people in general and how to be attractive. People actually admired me for it. I had been able to attract crowds of over 200 people to listen to me play a few songs on my guitar. The board of a fraternity admired me so much that they offered me a chance to teach a class on my methods, and I ended up doing it. There were well over 50 people at that class taking notes and asking questions.

By the time I told my professor that I wanted his job, it seemed like I was the talk of the university. I knew that people were talking about me all the time. A lot of people would look at me as I walked by, and even though I didn't know what they were saying, they would point at me. It was scary to say the least. My friends started growing distant and I experienced a lot of rejection, including from my girlfriend of over 2 years and my best friend of over 12 years.

I struggled with madness for quite some time after experiencing that type of rejection. By that time, I had also made quite a name for myself among linguists, but it didn't change the fact that I was seriously mad and very paranoid. A lot of people were talking about me, including professors.

 

 

Days went by, then months, then years, and I cried and sobbed and hated myself and got even more depressed. I actually called him a day or two after it happened and left him a voicemail. He probably couldn’t make out what I was saying because of how manic I was, but knowing that I did that really makes me cringe even to this day. I was so mad by that point that I didn’t know what the hell I was going to do. I continued to contact him afterwards, but he never replied. He actually did reply once, but all he did was comment on how hard it was to read my e-mail. Maybe one day, I’ll come around, and he might be open to the idea of letting me teach, but knowing that I was the way that I was, that probably won’t happen, and so I’m stuck here wondering if that day will ever come, and doubting that he’ll ever consider me because of my behavior.

I knew that he wanted to take me and another student out for drinks though. He made a comment in class about it. He used to surprise us by coming up from behind us while we were talking and saying "HEY GUYS!" He was actually very friendly with me and another student.

 

The reason I told him that I wanted his job was because I had learned so much about what makes people attractive by that point, and the main thing that makes even the ugliest guys attractive is called "survival value". Basically, you need a job that pays well. I wanted one so bad by that point, but it was absolutely hopeless for any average person living in my area to get that dream job. I knew that I wanted to be a professor, and my dad told me a story of how he had told his old boss that he wanted his job and eventually earned it, so I decided that it was a good idea to do the same with my professor. It probably wasn't a good time in my life to do that though because of all the rejection I was experiencing.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Popcorn Sutton

[Ophiolite]

One of the things I like about participation in forum like this is that I have the opportunity to read the thoughts and experiences of individuals whose perception of the world differs radically from mine. That often leaves me with a feeling of "Holy Shit!" This is a good thing as it shakes me out of any complacency and forces me to broaden my horizons. So, all I can say after reading your thoughts on this thread is "Holy Frigging Shit!!"

 

Alternatively, I've forgotten what it is like to be very young.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Lol that was a cool response. What about my experience peaks your interest though?