Is Wisdom God?

[s1eep]

We often ask whether life has meaning, for example, there is a thread in the speculations section that asks whether there is cleverness behind the universes creation. Wisdom gives life meaning, if we are wise then there is a certain action for every reaction, an action that we should employ-- the wisest action, and by employing this action, my life has meaning, for I was meant to follow wisdom. I suppose, to be wise is to know such things as 'thyself', your wife or your environment; things we are consumed by. Is the ultimate wisdom greater than the ultimate intelligence? Do we possess the wisdom to know the extents of this universe? I think we are little in comparison to what could be out there, I don't think we have created anything new and have instead delved deeper into the past. Are we lost in ourselves instead of our surroundings? But more to the point, is God wisdom? Because it is what has made things carry on, without the foundation to life, there can be no life, and that foundation was created. Wisdom was created, and is it something we should pursue religiously, our own wisdom?

 

Personally, I believe there was wisdom behind creation, there had to be otherwise how do things move on from one stage to another? The first stage must be consumed for it to move on to the second, thus becoming the second stage in the present time. There has to be some sort of good event for harmony to pertain and things to move on-- this good event is found through wisdom, is wisdom God as it is opposed to the good events it helps us to follow?

Edited February 25, 2014 by s1eep

[John Cuthber]

"Is Wisdom God?"

Not according to any conventional definitions of the words that I have heard.

What do you mean by "wisdom" and "God"?

Once you have definitions you can see if they coincide ort significantly overlap; if they do then, by those definitions, wisdom is God, but I think you will still run into a problem

There is evidence that wisdom exists.

[s1eep]

"Is Wisdom God?"

Not according to any conventional definitions of the words that I have heard.

What do you mean by "wisdom" and "God"?

Once you have definitions you can see if they coincide ort significantly overlap; if they do then, by those definitions, wisdom is God, but I think you will still run into a problem

There is evidence that wisdom exists.

Their dictionary definitions. The creator and ruler of the universe.

[John Cuthber]

the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

 

.
1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

 

 

So, that's a "no".

[s1eep]

Use the word, instead of reverting back to it's definition. "Is God wisdom?" is a valid question. Is cake nice? Is also an invalid question by your logic. What if in the beginning was wisdom? And what if our wisdom is the present God?

Edited February 25, 2014 by s1eep

[John Cuthber]

You need to learn the difference between abstract nouns and adjectives.

Then we can talk about logic.

However, it won't stop the answer to the question being no.

[s1eep]

Why is the answer "No?" Wisdom has moral authority, there is an ultimate good, to be wise. It would be the perfect deity that guides morality. All nothing needs to become something is an idea of something to create, all we need to create a big bang is wisdom. In the beginning, Wisdom, then creation. The same principles should be followed in life-- we should have knowledge, experience and good judgement. I suppose all definitions are not 100% stable words, definitions are strings of words that we use to describe something; the real wisdom is probably a little different to the definition. As a scientist, you should be less restricted by the semantics of words and be concerned with the real.

[Fuzzwood]

You do not need a god to have morals.

[s1eep]

You need wisdom, but that is your own godliness I think.

[John Cuthber]

Why is the answer "No?" Wisdom has moral authority, there is an ultimate good, to be wise. It would be the perfect deity that guides morality. All nothing needs to become something is an idea of something to create, all we need to create a big bang is wisdom. In the beginning, Wisdom, then creation. The same principles should be followed in life-- we should have knowledge, experience and good judgement. I suppose all definitions are not 100% stable words, definitions are strings of words that we use to describe something; the real wisdom is probably a little different to the definition. As a scientist, you should be less restricted by the semantics of words and be concerned with the real.

One of the things science needs to do is define terms precisely.

Otherwise it's impossible to work out what people are talking about.

Also as a scientist I already gave you a scientific answer;

"There is evidence that wisdom exists."

you ignored it.

Why?

Do you just want someone to say you are right, or are you actually trying to find an answer to the question?

[Phi for All]

Personally, I believe there was wisdom behind creation, there had to be otherwise how do things move on from one stage to another?

 

Chemical reactions are truly fascinating and can be mind-boggling, but there's no reason to suspect anything supernatural at work here.

 

Part of my basic definition of wisdom is "a heightened perspective on experienced reality". How can wisdom be available before anything has been experienced? Wisdom needs time to grow, doesn't it? At least for us it does, and that's really the only experience I can draw from.

[s1eep]

 

Chemical reactions are truly fascinating and can be mind-boggling, but there's no reason to suspect anything supernatural at work here.

 

Part of my basic definition of wisdom is "a heightened perspective on experienced reality". How can wisdom be available before anything has been experienced? Wisdom needs time to grow, doesn't it? At least for us it does, and that's really the only experience I can draw from.

What about nothing becoming wise, gaining a heightened perspective on reality, nothing? You have nothing, then you have wise nothing, and then you have the big bang. Do we require experience to become wise or can we be created wise? Maybe we are already wise but we can become wiser.

[Phi for All]

What about nothing becoming wise, gaining a heightened perspective on reality, nothing? You have nothing, then you have wise nothing, and then you have the big bang. Do we require experience to become wise or can we be created wise? Maybe we are already wise but we can become wiser.

 

Created wise as in born wise? Evidence suggests this isn't the case. Wisdom is not a trait children are known for. Consider the common phrase, "Wise beyond his years", in reference to a younger person showing the wisdom of a much older person. It would seem that age is a basic factor of wisdom.

 

Created wise as in poofed into existence by the unlimited abilities of a deity? If you use omnipotence, you can claim anything is true. I don't think it's wise to use omnipotence as an explanation for anything.

 

Wisdom, at least in the sense you're using it here, needs to be separate from intelligence if you want to distinguish it as a special trait. And I would also suggest that wisdom is a situational and subjective assessment. If you make one wise decision, does that mean you're a wise person? I would suggest that having stolen things doesn't necessarily make you a thief except in the strictest sense, and similarly it's not right to call a person wise when it's their actions that can individually be wise or not.

[Greg H.]

I prefer the logic of David Hume:

 

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.

 

From that, i would say that a belief in God is the exact opposite of wisdom.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Greg H.

[s1eep]

 

Created wise as in born wise? Evidence suggests this isn't the case. Wisdom is not a trait children are known for. Consider the common phrase, "Wise beyond his years", in reference to a younger person showing the wisdom of a much older person. It would seem that age is a basic factor of wisdom.

 

Created wise as in poofed into existence by the unlimited abilities of a deity? If you use omnipotence, you can claim anything is true. I don't think it's wise to use omnipotence as an explanation for anything.

 

Wisdom, at least in the sense you're using it here, needs to be separate from intelligence if you want to distinguish it as a special trait. And I would also suggest that wisdom is a situational and subjective assessment. If you make one wise decision, does that mean you're a wise person? I would suggest that having stolen things doesn't necessarily make you a thief except in the strictest sense, and similarly it's not right to call a person wise when it's their actions that can individually be wise or not.

To be wise and someone's wisdom are different; one is a path, the other is in the passive; for that reason I assert that wisdom is separate to us but we have the power to control it-- there is the wisest action, and this is how all things move forward. If there was no good in the universe, how would things exist? There must have been some relative optimism in the universe from start to present for it to have produce new things to continue existing; things that worked well together, worked together, and this was by following their wisdom. A flame is potentially infinite; it can reproduce an infinite amount of times; this shows us created wisdom, it is not a lifeless element. Remember, the planet is not cut into separate parts, the core, the mantle, they all form one being, and this being is wise, it controls all parts at once, as we humans are created wise over our bodies. Omnipotence is the answer to everything, if it exists, it is the answer; well, it's the closest to an answer we will ever get. Think of it as a test of spirit, can you think of that much power? And walah, we have the universe. I don't think God is a man in the sky; I'm not someone who believes in fairy tales; I don't even think it should be called God, hence why I made this thread. The God I believe in is real, it's just on a different wavelength to what you think on. You seem to compress things to a singular perspective instead of taking in the whole being; which is why you treat the planet wrong and why innocent people will suffer in the future.

Edited February 26, 2014 by s1eep

[Phi for All]

Changing your definitions so your arguments look better is dangerous reasoning. How exactly would we control wisdom, even now that you've redefined it?

A flame isn't potentially infinite; flame is just the visible portion of a process, a very rigid process that requires very specific materials and conditions. It is without life.

Similarly, your attempt to give "life" to inanimate objects like planets is unsupported and fanciful. I think your feet have left the ground and your ideas are becoming less grounded in reality.

"Omnipotence is the answer to everything, if it exists, it is the answer; well, it's the closest to an answer we will ever get." Really? I think omnipotence is the most inane concept ever invented. It's pointless to talk about a being that can change the very laws of reality it lives by, or supposedly created. You're into sky fairy territory here, with a magic wand to wave to make any of your explanations work for you. I don't see how anyone can reason this way.

You seem to compress things to a singular perspective instead of taking in the whole being; which is why you treat the planet wrong and why innocent people will suffer in the future.

OK, you're starting to throw out your signature blanket accusations and generalizations again. I find them very offensive, trying to elevate your own position by unfounded and misleading vividness. You're not supposed to build your own martyry.

[Fuzzwood]

To be wise and someone's wisdom are different; one is a path, the other is in the passive; for that reason I assert that wisdom is separate to us but we have the power to control it-- there is the wisest action, and this is how all things move forward. If there was no good in the universe, how would things exist? There must have been some relative optimism in the universe from start to present for it to have produce new things to continue existing; things that worked well together, worked together, and this was by following their wisdom. A flame is potentially infinite; it can reproduce an infinite amount of times; this shows us created wisdom, it is not a lifeless element. Remember, the planet is not cut into separate parts, the core, the mantle, they all form one being, and this being is wise, it controls all parts at once, as we humans are created wise over our bodies. Omnipotence is the answer to everything, if it exists, it is the answer; well, it's the closest to an answer we will ever get. Think of it as a test of spirit, can you think of that much power? And walah, we have the universe. I don't think God is a man in the sky; I'm not someone who believes in fairy tales; I don't even think it should be called God, hence why I made this thread. The God I believe in is real, it's just on a different wavelength to what you think on. You seem to compress things to a singular perspective instead of taking in the whole being; which is why you treat the planet wrong and why innocent people will suffer in the future.

This is starting to sound like religious soapboxing and how we are all doomed for not following the true path. I believe this forum is not meant forthat.

[s1eep]

Changing your definitions so your arguments look better is dangerous reasoning. How exactly would we control wisdom, even now that you've redefined it?

 

A flame isn't potentially infinite; flame is just the visible portion of a process, a very rigid process that requires very specific materials and conditions. It is without life.

 

Similarly, your attempt to give "life" to inanimate objects like planets is unsupported and fanciful. I think your feet have left the ground and your ideas are becoming less grounded in reality.

 

"Omnipotence is the answer to everything, if it exists, it is the answer; well, it's the closest to an answer we will ever get." Really? I think omnipotence is the most inane concept ever invented. It's pointless to talk about a being that can change the very laws of reality it lives by, or supposedly created. You're into sky fairy territory here, with a magic wand to wave to make any of your explanations work for you. I don't see how anyone can reason this way.

 

OK, you're starting to throw out your signature blanket accusations and generalizations again. I find them very offensive, trying to elevate your own position by unfounded and misleading vividness. You're not supposed to build your own martyry.

I think it's fair to give the planet life, for it gives us life; I love nature. I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm trying to help you learn a little respect and stop being so egotistical. A flame can reproduce an infinite amount of times as long as there is something to keep it alive; flames could consume the entire universe if there was an event powerful enough to conquer that feat. Even space is not inanimate, it is filled with wonder, wonder that is related to the space so it can subside-- we are more alike space than we are any scientific theory about ourselves, we might as well call ourselves "space", as it's what consumes us all as entities. Your opinion about omnipotence is noted but I don't think you have the imagination to think outside the box. You keep using other peoples mistakes to try and prove me wrong; why don't you confront my words only instead of putting words in my mouth. A sky fairy and wisdom are different. There must be a wisest action; being wise is like finding comfort in your nature. I assert that life is "cushioned", and we're all supposed to be following the same wise path.

Edited February 27, 2014 by s1eep

[John Cuthber]

"I think it's fair to give the planet life, for it gives us life;"

Nobody else here seems to think that.

Do you know why?

Here's a clue, we tend to look for evidence.

 

"A sky fairy and wisdom are different"

YEp, one of them can be clearly shown to exist.

[Fuzzwood]

Neither the planet, nor fire, nor space particularily cares about your opinion of it. Nor can they care in the first place.

[s1eep]

Neither the planet, nor fire, nor space particularily cares about your opinion of it. Nor can they care in the first place.

Who cares if they care?? We can care because of them.

Edited February 27, 2014 by s1eep

[Phi for All]

I think it's fair to give the planet life, for it gives us life; I love nature.

I was unaware you were able to give life to a planet. I underestimated your omnipotence, possibly.

 

I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm trying to help you learn a little respect and stop being so egotistical.

Personally, I think it's disrespectful to the planet and our environment to embellish it with imaginative qualities that actually take away from it's true, reality-based awesomeness. You want it to be a single living entity but it's so much more as the collective habitat for every species known to inhabit this universe. You diminish it with your anthropomorphisms, imo.

 

I don't know you, so I don't feel qualified to comment on things like your ego or what you respect.

 

A flame can reproduce an infinite amount of times as long as there is something to keep it alive; flames could consume the entire universe if there was an event powerful enough to conquer that feat.

Fire isn't a thing, it's an event, like a tornado. It's a process that starts with heat and eventually reaches a point where volatile gases from the fuel combust with oxygen from the air, at which point the process is visible as flame.

 

So much more awesome than a thing.

 

You keep using other peoples mistakes to try and prove me wrong; why don't you confront my words only instead of putting words in my mouth. A sky fairy and wisdom are different. There must be a wisest action; being wise is like finding comfort in your nature. I assert that life is "cushioned", and we're all supposed to be following the same wise path.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I'm discussing this subject with you and disagreeing with some of your premises, while trying to correct some of your misconceptions about science.

 

I don't see how there can be a universal wisdom, a wisest action, since what is considered wise is subjective and contextual. Who gets to decide what's wise? I'm not comfortable with it being you, as you've demonstrated some decidedly un-wise judgement thus far in the discussion.

[Popcorn Sutton]

God is wisdom? I've learned that god is everything throughout my years in going to church and going to my confirmation classes. It's faith. IMO god is a creature, and there may be many of them. I agree with Richard Dawkins on this one, I'm probably lucky that I don't live with one.