Lower Secondary School Mathematics Education.

[studiot]

ajb has posted a blog entry about UK maths standards.

 

http://blogs.scienceforums.net/ajb/?p=4260

 

This question and comment appears there

 

 

Is the problem with mathematics education that bad?

I will answer that with a quote…

78% of working-age adults have maths skills below the equivalent of a GCSE grade C – and that half only have the maths skills of a child leaving primary school.

 

Since there never seems to be much discussion on the original I am starting this thread about this important matter.

 

I am inclined to say so what, what do they expect?

 

It is my opinion that what we are seeing, not only in maths but in other subjects, is the inevitable consequence of a

'One size fits all' approach to teaching and education.

 

People have a range of aptitude and ability for any subject or activity.

So it is ridiculous in the extreme to think that a single exam will be suitable for all.

 

In order to have any relevence and also to be fair to those of lowest ability the syllabus has to be of such a low level that they can achieve something. In theory every pupil should have been taught the skill to achieve 100% marks in their exam or it is fundamentally unfair to them.

 

In other words, everyone is taught to the lowest common denominator.

Edited March 12, 2014 by studiot

[ajb]

I am inclined to say so what, what do they expect?

While it may be unreasonable to expect everyone to get a C grade at GCSE (usually awarded at 16), I don't think it is unreasonable to expect almost everyone to have a mathematics level greater than a primary school child.

[studiot]

 

While it may be unreasonable to expect everyone to get a C grade at GCSE (usually awarded at 16), I don't think it is unreasonable to expect almost everyone to have a mathematics level greater than a primary school child.

 

 

With the greatest respect, I think you miss my point entirely.

 

When I was at primary school, substantially less than half passed the 11+ exam of the day. We covered mathematics that a fair proportion would never achieve if they stayed in school until their retirement age.

 

The secondary system offered at least four different syllabuses and exams so that there was something for every one at every level.

 

By the way this is not plea for an elitist system, just an observation that one syllabus that is suitable for both those going on to be professors of mathematics and tractor drivers is not possible in my opinion.

Neither are well served by something in between.

[ajb]

By the way this is not plea for an elitist system, just an observation that one syllabus that is suitable for both those going on to be professors of mathematics and tractor drivers is not possible in my opinion.

This is also a problem for university syllabuses also. Only a small proportion of those students will obtain a PhD, of those a small proportion will get a postdoc, a small proportion of those get a permanent university position.

 

It is for sure difficult to cater to all of the students at any given level. You tend to either leave people behind or risk disengaging the brighter students.

 

But anyway, there must be a minimum that society accepts as reasonable for all adults of fit mind to know. Basic mathematics skill I think should be part of this minimum, but exactly what we should set this minimum to is an open question. The fact that we have a number of working age adults with less mathematics skills than a primary school child seems unacceptable to me.

[Marisse]

Perhaps kids will learn better when math is introduced via games. Then as they grow, a basic competence in Math will remain with them. I have seen young kids play math games with great enthusiasm.

[Sato]

This obviously isn't the best way to do it, and my direct interaction with it can be described as a failure (on either of our parts), but it's the cheapest and easiest option; it's much easier to test kids on their ability to repeat a process than their understanding of mathematics, the latter being much more abstract and ergo much more difficult to teach than otherwise.

[John Cuthber]

Are you sure about this

"half only have the maths skills of a child leaving primary school."?

 

That implies that

typically, children learned (at least some) maths in primary school and

half of them learned no maths in secondary school.

 

is the difference between primary and secondary education that great?

[studiot]

 

Are you sure about this

"half only have the maths skills of a child leaving primary school."?

 

 

Since you are presumably referring to the quote in my post#1 I had better clear up where it came from.

 

The quote is from ajb's original link (My apologies for not making that clear before)

where it was reported to have been said by Mark Ellison, Chief Executive of National Numeracy.

 

 

half of them learned no maths in secondary school

 

Can you elucidate your reasoning please?

[John Cuthber]

As adults, after leaving 2ry school, they "only have the maths skills of a child leaving primary school".

If they learned stuff in 2ry school they would have better maths skills than a child leaving primary school.

Half of them didn't have better skills, so half of them didn't learn maths in 2ry school.

Edited July 28, 2014 by John Cuthber

[studiot]

 

Half of them didn't have better skills, so half of them didn't learn maths in 2ry school.

 

 

But that is only true if the half that do not have better skills had average skills upon entering.

They may have left primary school with substandard skills and done some catching up in secondary school.

 

The last line in italics resonates with my own experience of watching my children at (a good) secondary school in 1998-2003.

 

In my day there was no such thing as a 'remedial maths class',

But they were a regular thing at this school and a good 50% of the pupils attended these frequently.

 

Upon discussing the maths curriculum with the maths teacher, I was shocked to to learn how little there was on the syllabus and how much remedial work at primary level they felt they need to do.

[John Cuthber]

Is it possible (and reasonable) for the OP's statement

"half only have the maths skills of a child leaving primary school."

to be correct without a significant change in teaching at 2ry school compared to 1ry school?

[studiot]

I don't think this has anything to do with the pupils or the teachers, it has to do with declining curriculum standards and present day overreliance on electronic aids.

[fiveworlds]

They should at least know "If I am traveling 80 miles away at 80mph, how long will it take to reach my destination?" ie one hour. They should also know that "if each 8 miles uses an imperial(uk) gallon of petrol how many liters of petrol will it take to reach my destination?" One gallon is 4.54609 liters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon therefore 10 imperial gallons is 45.4609 liters. They should also know the difference between an imperial(uk) gallon and a us gallon. The us gallon is 3.785411784 litres, They should also know whether their cars manufacturer used the us measurement or the uk measurement of a gallon.

Edited July 28, 2014 by fiveworlds