Mobile phone chargers to be standardised under EU law

[CaptainPanic]

I am delighted that finally an EU law will force phone manufacturers to provide a standardized charger that works with all phones. Earlier attempts with a letter of intent (.pdf warning), which was drafted in 2009, and was supposed to lead to a standardized charger by 2013, lead to absolutely nothing, since there were no consequences to a failure to comply. The new law may simply make it illegal to sell phones without standardized charger.

 

Nowadays, phone chargers can cost as much as 40 euro if a replacement is needed... which is quite a lot of money considering I have a drawer full of obsolete chargers.

 

I think this is a great example how you sometimes have to regulate a market, and not let the market regulate itself. Sometimes you need a stick, not a carrot. I applaud the EU for taking this initiative. Hopefully it will save us all some money, and resources in the future.

 

Perhaps I should have posted this in the news section, but I hope that some of you are going to attack the interferences of the EU so we can have a political debate about it.

[imatfaal]

Reg -What has the EU ever done for us?

EU member -There is the 60+ years of peace in western europe...

Reg -There is that - but apart from 60 years peace in one of the most historically violent parts of the globe what has the EU ever done for us?

EU -I suppose there is the fact that a group of independent states now acts as the largest trading bloc in the world...

Rrg -Well apart from the peace in western europe, the power of joint negotiation in trade; what has the EU ever done for us?

EU -We wouldn't have freedom of movement across borders for people, capital and trade - that has changed millions of lives for the better...

Reg -Well apart from the peace in western europe, the joint negotiation in trade, freedom of movement; what has the EU ever done for us?

EU -The adoption of the European Convention on Human Rights meant an end to the death penalty, any form of torture, provided for fair trails...

Reg - Ok Apart from peace in western europe, the joint negotiation in trade, freedom of movement, human rights what has the EU ever done for us?

EU - forced companies to standardise products so they cannot screw the consumer for example by making them buy new phone chargers every new phone rather than being able to stick with one...

Reg- oh phone chargers. Shut Up!

[studiot]

Who's this 'Reg'?

 

[imatfaal]

it was a poor attempt at pastiche - always dangerous when copying from the masters

 

 

http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html

[Phi for All]

Perfect example of a market that went too far in its quest for outrageous markups. We all know those chargers are marked up by an order of magnitude like every other accessory, but I don't consider it one. Everything else is an option, but chargers are a necessity if the phone is going to work.

 

Good move by the EU, let's hope they don't standardize the charger you DON'T have.

[studiot]

Note the date on the original article and the timescale.

 

After all the current crop of politicians will have moved on and the beaurocrats retired on fat pensions.

 

This idea belongs in the bin along with the straight banana and the prosecution of Newcastle market trader for satisfying a customer request for a pound of apples.

 

It was clearly devised by someone who knows nothing about electricity.

 

My small very simple mobile phone trickle charges at 0.015 amps.

 

Look here about the needs of the gas guzzlers of the mobile phone world.

 

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3511

 

Some require more than 100 times as much current.

Edited March 13, 2014 by studiot

[swansont]

It doesn't say that hey've decided on a standard, but the implication is that Apple will be the odd man out, and they mention micro-USB. The danger is that you standardize on old technology; these are not just chargers but also data cables, and if you choose an old standard, you will hold everyone back.

 

I think a more viable option is the forced licensing of patented standards similar to what's already in place in the telecom industry. So if you own the patent on the industry standard, you must license it to anyone who wants to use it, and can't overcharge for that (or charge different customers different amounts). So, for example, anyone could license the connector for some fraction of a dollar or euro per device, and then anyone could make and sell a charger. That wouldn't hold back innovation, but would allow competition for such peripherals.

[CaptainPanic]

This idea belongs in the bin along with the straight banana and the prosecution of Newcastle market trader for satisfying a customer request for a pound of apples.

 

It was clearly devised by someone who knows nothing about electricity.

 

Obviously, new phone models must be designed so that they can be charged with the standard charger. Mobile phone manufacturers probably have enough understanding of electrical engineering to overcome this hurdle. They have until 2017 to redesign their models.

 

If they can overcome complicated problems like totally new networks (they've gone from 1G, to 2G, 3G and now 4G, with 5G in the pipeline), then surely a little different voltage for charging isn't gonna be a problem.

[studiot]

I believe I mentioned current, not voltage?

 

Whilst I concur that standardisation is, in principle, a good idea, slavish adherence to ill conceived policies by those who are politicians not telecoms or other electrical engineers do not fit into this category.

 

Saying that all mobile phones must use the same charger is a bit akin to an edict that everyone in the community shall wear the same size shoes in the interests of standardisation.

 

I am already suffering from, irresponsible harmonised wiring colours, standardised compost heap positions, flooding caused by irresponsible landfill taxes and many other indignities.

 

A simple comment on the first on my list. If the EU beaurocracy was serious about helping its citizens in the electrical area surely a standardization of mains electrical plugs and sockets would have been better than the colour of the wiring hidden in the walls, so that any EU citizen could buy an electrical device in any country and plug it in in any other country?

Edited March 13, 2014 by studiot

[swansont]

 

A simple comment on the first on my list. If the EU beaurocracy was serious about helping its citizens in the electrical area surely a standardization of mains electrical plugs and sockets would have been better than the colour of the wiring hidden in the walls, so that any EU citizen could buy an electrical device in any country and plug it in in any other country?

 

A good point in theory, but in practice the cost of rewiring everything would be huge, or you have the problem of old vs new plugs in homes that don't replace their outlets. Mobile devices have the property of becoming obsolete and often being every few years. The transition will be much less painful.

[imatfaal]

I believe I mentioned current, not voltage?

 

Whilst I concur that standardisation is, in principle, a good idea, slavish adherence to ill conceived policies by those who are politicians not telecoms or other electrical engineers do not fit into this category.

 

Saying that all mobile phones must use the same charger is a bit akin to an edict that everyone in the community shall wear the same size shoes in the interests of standardisation.

 

I am already suffering from, irresponsible harmonised wiring colours, standardised compost heap positions, flooding caused by irresponsible landfill taxes and many other indignities.

 

A simple comment on the first on my list. If the EU beaurocracy was serious about helping its citizens in the electrical area surely a standardization of mains electrical plugs and sockets would have been better than the colour of the wiring hidden in the walls, so that any EU citizen could buy an electrical device in any country and plug it in in any other country?

 

But the point is that we have had voluntary standards organisations and sensible telecoms engineers and electrical engineers, and the result is that manufacturers deliberately make their products non-standard.

 

Yes technology experts should have solved this - but they didnt; in fact I reckon I could show to the standards of civil proof that they deliberately confused the situation. And anyway the bodies that draft these proposals are nearly all packed with experts co-opted from industry and academe - they are not groups of know-nothing bureaucrats.

 

The straight bananas was a lovely scam by the daily mail or one of its ilk - the directive was very sensible and iirc based on uk trading practices. You can still sell things by the pound but you have to provide a metric equivalent price; and I say good - metric is better.

[swansont]

 

If they can overcome complicated problems like totally new networks (they've gone from 1G, to 2G, 3G and now 4G, with 5G in the pipeline), then surely a little different voltage for charging isn't gonna be a problem.

 

But that's part of the subtlety of the problem. These represent networks with ever increasing data capacities, but a poorly chosen standard cable might limit data transfer speeds when synching the device with your computer. And I don't think anyone wants separate power and data cables.

[John Cuthber]

I'm shocked that nobody cited this yet.

http://xkcd.com/927/

[CaptainPanic]

A simple comment on the first on my list. If the EU beaurocracy was serious about helping its citizens in the electrical area surely a standardization of mains electrical plugs and sockets would have been better than the colour of the wiring hidden in the walls, so that any EU citizen could buy an electrical device in any country and plug it in in any other country?

 

It is standardized in the EU. There are just two small islands off the coast of Europe where they refuse to comply with the standard. I believe these are called Britain and Ireland.

 

 

But that's part of the subtlety of the problem. These represent networks with ever increasing data capacities, but a poorly chosen standard cable might limit data transfer speeds when synching the device with your computer. And I don't think anyone wants separate power and data cables.

 

But there is already a great standard for transferring data at huge speeds. It is called USB. Nobody seems to complain that this was standardized?

 

I think that some would rather trust the industry to make the right choice for the standard, and some have a deeply rooted mistrust of the (EU-)government. From that mistrust, you may argue that in each and every case, it would be better to take zero action, because any action would go wrong anyway. I simply do not share that mistrust of the EU. I think that the EU is in general a huge success, and I forgive their few failures and mistakes... So, I cannot accept the argument that "it may go wrong, so let's not do it". (The conclusion in italics was added by me).

 

I trust that they will actually let the industry set the standard. The big difference is that this time, failure to reach a consensus is not an option for industry.

[swansont]

 

But there is already a great standard for transferring data at huge speeds. It is called USB. Nobody seems to complain that this was standardized?

 

 

USB A/B, mini, or micro?

[CaptainPanic]

 

USB A/B, mini, or micro?

 

Fair point.

So, there is some room for improvement in the entire digital world, including phones, laptops, cameras, tablets. The specific type (A/B/mini/micro) of USB connector is not very relevant to the data transfer speed, is it? I hope that once phones are standardized, the digital cameras and tablets will just follow that standard too.

[studiot]

First let me apologise, since I introduced off topic material and this has clouded the pith of the discussion.

 

However I do resent being patronised, particularly when they include "trust me (or them) I am a (or they are) experts" type comments.

 

I have sat on national and one international Engineering Standards Committees and I can only offer that famous old phrase

 

 

A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

 

Enough said, back to the topic.

 

CaptainPanic post#8

then surely a little different voltage for charging isn't gonna be a problem.

 

Studiot post#9

I believe I mentioned current, not voltage?

 

You have not yet addressed this issue.

 

I have a very small, simple handset that consumes very little power and offers very limited facilities (viz I can make and receive mobile calls),

 

As a result it requires very little current to charge it and thus a small capacity charger.

 

Other folks like to have more computing power than Cape Canaveral in their phone.

Consequently their charging requirements are significantly larger than mine and this requiress much more substantial ( and expensive and resource wasteful) charging equipment.

I do not begrudge them this.

 

However I would be strongly against being forced to pay for and support charging equipment capable of doing things I do not want or need in order to charge my phone.

 

In my opinion that is seriously bad engineering.

 

So would you

 

A) Ban my type of phone

B) Ban their type of phone

C) Force me to pay extra so that there can be a charger that can charge both phones

D) Allow appropriate chargers for each phone

 

Edit additional comment

 

Finally, it has been my custom and practice when purchasing battery powered mobile equipment to purchase a spare battery (pack) and an off-unit charger so that I can be using and charging at the same time.

 

As far as I know that has never been available with mobile phones, many manufacturers even going so far as to preclude the fitting of common standard rechargable cells that can be charged in common standard chargers by manufacturing unusual sized cells.

I once turned some brass buttons to make up the size difference in a phone when the original batteries went dead.

 

Addressing this issue should have been done a long time ago.

Edited March 14, 2014 by studiot

[swansont]

 

Fair point.

So, there is some room for improvement in the entire digital world, including phones, laptops, cameras, tablets. The specific type (A/B/mini/micro) of USB connector is not very relevant to the data transfer speed, is it? I hope that once phones are standardized, the digital cameras and tablets will just follow that standard too.

 

But if you standardize on one particular connector, then you run the risk of halting advancement. Why were mini and micro USB developed? Surely they must give some advantage over the original, if only because the size of the devices we started plugging in got smaller. So a standard connector will ensure that devices will not get thinner. That's one of the justifications of Apple's lightning connector, another being that it's symmetrical, so there's no wrong orientation when trying to plug it in. But sorry, the EU just decided that you have to live with this annoyance.

[CaptainPanic]

You have not yet addressed this issue.

 

Those with the simplest phones and (currently) the cheapest chargers would have very little benefit, and perhaps the effects would even be negative. The only benefit would be that you can now charge your phone at a friends' house without having to bring your own charger. But I admit that this is hardly useful, since these types of phones never run out of juice anyway. (I also have one - it goes for 8 days on a single charged battery).

Those with expensive phones (and especially Apple devices) would benefit a lot, since their chargers are ridiculously expensive, and the price they pay is several times the actual production costs. A standardized charger, produced by several competing companies, would be sold at a competing price close to the production costs.

 

What if there would be 2 charger types: a flimsy one for little current, and a bulkier (more expensive) one for larger currents? Are there any (safety) issues if someone would connect the high-current charger to the flimsy phone, or the other way around?

 

The two main problems that I have is that with every new phone (and camera, tablet, laptop) you have to buy a new charger too. And frequently, it happens that the manufacturer of the device have a monopoly position on the production of the chargers for their devices. Both these issues lead to added costs that I'd like to avoid.

 

I hope this addresses it a little. I am not an electrical engineer, so I am not able to go into the technical details much.

 

 

But if you standardize on one particular connector, then you run the risk of halting advancement. Why were mini and micro USB developed? Surely they must give some advantage over the original, if only because the size of the devices we started plugging in got smaller. So a standard connector will ensure that devices will not get thinner. That's one of the justifications of Apple's lightning connector, another being that it's symmetrical, so there's no wrong orientation when trying to plug it in. But sorry, the EU just decided that you have to live with this annoyance.

 

Just like with normal plugs and sockets for the 220V (or in the USA, 110 V), there is a minimum size limit, due to safety. I have no clue how small that would be for a phone charger, but I can imagine that it wouldn't become significantly smaller than a micro-usb connector. Also, personally, if a connector would become any smaller, I would risk destroying/bending is because I am clumsy.

 

Also, the standardized sockets/plugs never seem to have halted any inventions in any devices I use at home. Could you give an example of a possible advancement that would be halted if the micro-usb would become the standardized plug for chargers?

 

Finally, one last remark about this: the audio connector has been standardized ages ago. That too cannot be made smaller. Has this in any way endangered any advancements?

[studiot]

CaptainPanic

 

Yes that is really my point we need more than one type of charger available, but it is engineering common sense to restrict to the minimum few necessary.

 

And thank you for alerting me to the whole matter since I did not know there was any action afoot.

 

Swansont

 

I agree that the delicacy of micro usb connections is worrying. I have seen several cameras rendered useless because of this.

[john5746]

Seems to me you could at least standardize the cable to be USB, then if a different connection is wanted, an adapter has to be provided at no cost. Of course the company will put the cost into the product, but that seems to be more sensitive to the market.

[swansont]

Just like with normal plugs and sockets for the 220V (or in the USA, 110 V), there is a minimum size limit, due to safety. I have no clue how small that would be for a phone charger, but I can imagine that it wouldn't become significantly smaller than a micro-usb connector. Also, personally, if a connector would become any smaller, I would risk destroying/bending is because I am clumsy.

 

The Apple connector is an example of this. They made it smaller so the phone could be thinner.

 

 

Also, the standardized sockets/plugs never seem to have halted any inventions in any devices I use at home. Could you give an example of a possible advancement that would be halted if the micro-usb would become the standardized plug for chargers?

Predicting the future of technology is beyond my capabilities. let's look to the past instead: what if the original USB A/B had been deemed the standard? The original iPod used firewire. What if that had been chosen instead? Could anybody be making modern phones with those connectors, which are considered bulky today?

 

 

Finally, one last remark about this: the audio connector has been standardized ages ago. That too cannot be made smaller. Has this in any way endangered any advancements?

I'm sorry, did you mean the 2.5 mm, 3.5 mm or 1/4" standard? Mono or stereo? Would we have portable devices if the 1/4" connector was the statutory standard? Would stereo have caught on if mono had been prematurely chosen as the statutory standard?

 

(have a peek at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio) for the details of the connectors)

 

Audio data transfer has a limit on the rate you need to transfer. But anyone who's over 40 should have experience with the plethora of data transfer systems and how quickly they went out of date. That's why the form factor of USB has been relatively nice for the last decade or so, even though we still have the annoyance of the three sizes and the genders. But I am not convinced anyone can state with any certainty that we won't need to move on from that, and the evolution of USB is proof. One should note that USB was an industry standard, and not forced upon companies by legislation. Apple phased out and adopted USB firewire under market pressure, not because of a law.

 

I still think that mandatory and cheap licensing is the better way to go.

[CaptainPanic]

Predicting the future of technology is beyond my capabilities. let's look to the past instead: what if the original USB A/B had been deemed the standard? The original iPod used firewire. What if that had been chosen instead? Could anybody be making modern phones with those connectors, which are considered bulky today?

 

No. But we have very small connectors now, and I argued that if you make them even smaller, you run into other problems, e.g. their robustness. Especially if you do not standardize chargers, one must carry the charger everywhere with them, so the system must be robust.

 

I just don't believe that there is a huge market pressure to make devices even thinner, or connectors even smaller. In fact, I think that people deliberately seem to be buying larger devices now, and there is a lot of sarcasm online if a manufacturer produces a phone which is 0.5 mm thinner than the previous.

 

I also believe that law shouldn't get in the way of the market, and I believe that typically the EU does quite a good job at that. However, I applaud this development... and I hope that once a standard was set, the law can be dropped soon enough, as industry will proceed on a voluntary basis.

 

I'm sorry, did you mean the 2.5 mm, 3.5 mm or 1/4" standard? Mono or stereo? Would we have portable devices if the 1/4" connector was the statutory standard? Would stereo have caught on if mono had been prematurely chosen as the statutory standard?

 

I know there are several types, and only one type is used in phones, ipods, mp3 players, etc. ... Or, at least when I go to my local hardware store, and I look up the earplugs and headphones, there seems to be only one. And also, I can buy headphones of brand A, and use it in the audio player of brand B. I know multiple types of audio plugs exist (the larger one is frequently used with electric guitars, for example), but this is an example where I think that we approach something that we can call a standard. It's the 3.5 mm (mono and stereo both work). Luckily, no regulations were necessary.

 

 

One should note that USB was an industry standard, and not forced upon companies by legislation. Apple phased out and adopted USB firewire under market pressure, not because of a law.

 

And this exact same principle failed to produce such a standard in the case of the chargers (see: OP), despite the letter of intent signed by a lot of manufacturers, and despite some market pressure (albeit not as much as with USB, where the standardization took place once people started carrying around small storage devices).

 

I still think that mandatory and cheap licensing is the better way to go.

 

I could live with that as well.

[swansont]

No. But we have very small connectors now, and I argued that if you make them even smaller, you run into other problems, e.g. their robustness. Especially if you do not standardize chargers, one must carry the charger everywhere with them, so the system must be robust.

Standardized or not, you still have to carry a phone charger around with you if you want to charge your phone on the go. Or have access to one. The issue is sharing or buying a replacement.

 

 

I just don't believe that there is a huge market pressure to make devices even thinner, or connectors even smaller. In fact, I think that people deliberately seem to be buying larger devices now, and there is a lot of sarcasm online if a manufacturer produces a phone which is 0.5 mm thinner than the previous.

 

I also believe that law shouldn't get in the way of the market, and I believe that typically the EU does quite a good job at that. However, I applaud this development... and I hope that once a standard was set, the law can be dropped soon enough, as industry will proceed on a voluntary basis.

 

What happens with smart watches?

 

 

I know there are several types, and only one type is used in phones, ipods, mp3 players, etc. ... Or, at least when I go to my local hardware store, and I look up the earplugs and headphones, there seems to be only one. And also, I can buy headphones of brand A, and use it in the audio player of brand B. I know multiple types of audio plugs exist (the larger one is frequently used with electric guitars, for example), but this is an example where I think that we approach something that we can call a standard. It's the 3.5 mm (mono and stereo both work). Luckily, no regulations were necessary.

 

 

The larger standard is an output from stereos for headphones. That changed at some point, when portable devices became available. You had to buy an adapter, and AFAIK there is still no one cable that fits everything since the different form factors still exist. No regulations were necessary because the industry converged on these standards (but not one standard).

 

The difference in these examples vs the proposal is having a small pool of standards vs having only one, and industry pressure vs regulation. Right now there is basically a choice between two connectors: micro USB and Lightning. The question I have is what specific problem is the legislation trying to solve, how much of a legitimate problem is that, and why is regulation the best answer?

[CaptainPanic]

Standardized or not, you still have to carry a phone charger around with you if you want to charge your phone on the go. Or have access to one. The issue is sharing or buying a replacement.

 

Unless the pub owner, your friends, and your family all have a charger (which isn't unlikely).

 

Anyway, I don't have time for a full reply. Gotta run. Weekend is starting! Off to the pub!