Infinite Uinverses Would Suggest Some Form Of God Exists

[Pozessed]

This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

 

A " necessary sentient being" would be something you'd expect to hear about in a religion. In my idea a sentient being isn't necessary but only possible and therefore probable, esspecially if compard to natural human motives to obtain knowledge and power.

 

[Phi for All]

I understand where you're coming from on this, but working with infinity in this way is really no different than claiming a single, omnipotent god is behind it ALL. You get to claim that anything you can imagine is possible, including universes where our physical laws don't apply.

 

And then you're really out there in the weeds, since you have nothing to support any of it. Your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine type of situation. Possibly fun but nothing really meaningful, do you see what I mean?

[davidivad]

i am not sure what multiple universes have to contribute to begin with.

if they are there, then they still would bear no fruit for us being closed off by an already infinite universe.

then again, our universe may not even be infinite and we still couldn't traverse the whole thing due to expansion..

to me, infinity is only a costruct for math.

[Delta1212]

The problem is treating something that is "possible" in the sense of "I don't have enough information to determine definitively that it is impossible" as if it was "possible" in the sense of "there is a chance it could actually happen.

 

If I hold a coin in my hand without looking at it, I could reasonably state that it is possible that, were I to flip it, it would come up tails. In fact, I could say that if I were to flip it an infinite number of times, it is highly probable that it will come up tails at some point.

 

If, unbeknownst to me, it is a two-headed coin, then it will never actually come up tails because it is physically impossible even though I imagine it to be fairly probable.

 

If there can exist no universe where a being is capable of figuring out how to control the multiverse, then it won't happen. Even if there are an infinite number of universes, there is no reason to suppose such a universe is necessarily among them, in the same way an infinite number of those coin flips will never include tails.

[Ophiolite]

If the universes are infinite, but not eternal, then there might not be time for such a being to develop.

[timo]

The infinite amount of numbers in the interval [0;1] does not automatically imply that the number 2 lies within this interval. It doesn't even make it probable that a randomly-chosen value lies within this interval.

[Pozessed]

I understand that my thoughts are more in the realm of science fiction. I am not trying to prove or show God to anyone.

 

I understand where you're coming from on this, but working with infinity in this way is really no different than claiming a single, omnipotent god is behind it ALL. You get to claim that anything you can imagine is possible, including universes where our physical laws don't apply.

 

And then you're really out there in the weeds, since you have nothing to support any of it. Your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine type of situation. Possibly fun but nothing really meaningful, do you see what I mean?

I'm not trying to find a reason for people to assume God exists. I'm just relaying a new idea I had that I have not heard anyone mention to me. I don't find it unreasonable to think about such things, maybe unnecessary to the degree of purposeful progression. Who's to say what thoughts are valid or not valid for that progression though?

i am not sure what multiple universes have to contribute to begin with.

if they are there, then they still would bear no fruit for us being closed off by an already infinite universe.

then again, our universe may not even be infinite and we still couldn't traverse the whole thing due to expansion..

to me, infinity is only a costruct for math.

Again, it's not to be anything more than an idea that may or may not generate some creative thinking.

Just because we are locked into this universe momentarily, does not mean other universes are locked out. We can't really determine if we are limited by physics or our intelligence to escape this universe.

Statistically speaking, math is what determines a humans whole decision process, therefore a math construct is a necessary construct (for an intelligent person anyways).

The problem is treating something that is "possible" in the sense of "I don't have enough information to determine definitively that it is impossible" as if it was "possible" in the sense of "there is a chance it could actually happen.

If I hold a coin in my hand without looking at it, I could reasonably state that it is possible that, were I to flip it, it would come up tails. In fact, I could say that if I were to flip it an infinite number of times, it is highly probable that it will come up tails at some point.

If, unbeknownst to me, it is a two-headed coin, then it will never actually come up tails because it is physically impossible even though I imagine it to be fairly probable.

If there can exist no universe where a being is capable of figuring out how to control the multiverse, then it won't happen. Even if there are an infinite number of universes, there is no reason to suppose such a universe is necessarily among them, in the same way an infinite number of those coin flips will never include tails.

Well atleast we can realize there are other ways to interpret the results, that does not mean we should not realise the potential of all possibities does it?

If the universes are infinite, but not eternal, then there might not be time for such a being to develop.

That's possible, but what would be stopping the universes from surviving if not chance? And if it is only chance that is stopping it from expanding wouldn't atleast one universe eventually survive infinately if infinity were at play?

The infinite amount of numbers in the interval [0;1] does not automatically imply that the number 2 lies within this interval. It doesn't even make it probable that a randomly-chosen value lies within this interval.

How is it not?

[davidivad]

i suppose that under such circumstances everything is possible.

 

fogive my scrutiny- who am i to say you cannot ask the question.

 

i know that many people believe there are advanced civilizations out there visiting us and possibly had a hand in our creation.

personally i think that the window of existence for a civilization is too small for the distances and chances of life evolving. that is not to say that the dice will not roll thier favor with technologies not dreamed of yet by us.

 

we are the goldilocks of goldilocks in this void in my opinion.

i often wonder why we do not have more than one base form of life on this planet.

[ReasonPrevails]

You're misunderstanding the idea of infinity. Just because there are infinite chances doesn't mean something is possible. For example, there are an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them are ever going to be 3. Similarly, something isn't automatically probable "because infinite."

[Pozessed]

You're misunderstanding the idea of infinity. Just because there are infinite chances doesn't mean something is possible. For example, there are an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them are ever going to be 3. Similarly, something isn't automatically probable "because infinite."

 

I never said that because something impossible has an infinite amount of chances it becomes possible. I am stating that if something is possible and it has an infinite amount of chances it becomes probable. It seems there is a huge difference in my implication and how you have inferred it.

 

It does seem that you think part of my ideals are impossible, may I ask which part aside from the idea of God existing is impossible to you?

i suppose that under such circumstances everything is possible.

 

fogive my scrutiny- who am i to say you cannot ask the question.

 

i know that many people believe there are advanced civilizations out there visiting us and possibly had a hand in our creation.

personally i think that the window of existence for a civilization is too small for the distances and chances of life evolving. that is not to say that the dice will not roll thier favor with technologies not dreamed of yet by us.

 

we are the goldilocks of goldilocks in this void in my opinion.

i often wonder why we do not have more than one base form of life on this planet.

I don't believe we have been visited by other cosmopolitains yet, I think theyd destroy us in fear of our greed and destructive ways, or simply for domination.

I don't know enough about space to determine if galaxies have too short of a life span for intelligent life to exist or not. I find it hard to believe that we are 1 in a trillion though, which is far less than the actual amount of stars and planets we can observe to my understanding.

 

I'm not sure why we are only carbon based, I never gave that much thought.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Pozessed

[davidivad]

just to rustle some feathers...

1,1.3,1.33,1.333,1.3333

you would be correct if you said you will never have two in a binary set.

filpping a two headed coin that lands on tails is still a possibility althogh the odds are so high you will never likely see it unless someone has tricked you. i, for posterity, move forward the idea that it is not an impossibility as much as it is undefined. a probability that dwarfs your lifetime unless you like to gamble.

 

the fact is that the possibility of an advanced lifeform is not equal to a two headed coin. it is a reasonable possibility however short the communication window is.

if you do not believe tails is a possibility consider quantum mechanics.

Edited March 21, 2014 by davidivad

[Delta1212]

What if, for instance, it is impossible to control how all of the universes work from inside one of them (and impossible to escape from whatever universe you are in, as well).

 

If this is the case, then your scenario is impossible and therefore not probable.

[s1eep]

There would also have to be the biggest universe.

[Pozessed]

What if, for instance, it is impossible to control how all of the universes work from inside one of them (and impossible to escape from whatever universe you are in, as well).

 

If this is the case, then your scenario is impossible and therefore not probable.

I agree, If it were proven to be something impossible it can not be probable.

[John Cuthber]

If the argument is that "tin an infinite number of universes, anything with a finite probability should happen at least once" then OK,

By that argument, in some Universe somewhere, I'm God.

Suddenly the argument seems less convincing.

 

However, that only applies to events with non zero probabilities.

There is, for example, no universe in which 2 has a rational square root. (with the normal definitions)

 

Similarly there is no all-powerful God in any universe.

The God of the Bible is logically impossible in any and all universes, including this one.

 

There's also a logical glitch with the meaning of the word "universe".

It means everything.

So there's nothing outside it to count as part of even a second "universe\", never mind an infinite number of possible ones.

[davidivad]

If the argument is that "tin an infinite number of universes, anything with a finite probability should happen at least once" then OK,

By that argument, in some Universe somewhere, I'm God.

Suddenly the argument seems less convincing.

 

I argue that i am god in my own personal universe...

[Ant Sinclair]

From Pythagoras/Angles of Pentagram using 432 as a base frequency everything has been designed.

[swansont]

From Pythagoras/Angles of Pentagram using 432 as a base frequency everything has been designed.

!

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