Death

[o_Physics_o]

I have had a theory for some time, and have not yet posted until today. Death, is the subject as seen above. No one really understands it, cause no one comes back from it alive. I was thinking, maybe when you die, there are two different paths created in time. One where you lay dead, one where you live on. Since the one where you die ends (According to you and your brain), I believe you will continue to live the line of time where you live. This wouldn't make sense, you would say at first. But what if it only appeared to you that people died, well, when they died? What if it only appeared that they died. What if they lived on, but only in an alternate timeline? So it would appear to you that you would live forever, and everyone else would experience that too. You would see others die, but never die. This is because you would always continue on the living timeline, not the dead one. So, any questions?

[swansont]

This sounds like a sci-fi story I read based on the Many-Worlds hypothesis in quantum mechanics. “Divided by Infinity” by Robert Charles Wilson

 

 

[s1eep]

I have the same idea, but I thought that was always what afterlife was like (i.e. this is nothing new).

[o_Physics_o]

@Atom, I understand what you're saying, but I mean is that there is no afterlife. What I mean is that when you 'almost die' you switch from your death timeline to continue on to live your 'living' timeline.

[s1eep]

@Atom, I understand what you're saying, but I mean is that there is no afterlife. What I mean is that when you 'almost die' you switch from your death timeline to continue on to live your 'living' timeline.

I don't suppose you could use beginner terminology to explain what timelines are or what you mean?

[o_Physics_o]

'Timelines' as in well, lines that consist of beginning and end of your lifetime. But in this case, there is no 'end' of the line, just two paths that sprout out of the original one, one in which you die that continues on after the 'split', and one which ends in where you die and the line ends, permanently.

[ReasonPrevails]

Is there any kind of logical basis for this or are you just making things up to comfort yourself? The last thing I want is to be mean, but this shouldn't even be in philosophy. This is just plain conjecture. I could just as easily claim that there will be two alternate timelines, and in one of them we all become porcupines.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ReasonPrevails

[Phi for All]

So it would appear to you that you would live forever, and everyone else would experience that too. You would see others die, but never die. This is because you would always continue on the living timeline, not the dead one. So, any questions?

 

Wouldn't you question why others die but you don't?

[Delta1212]

 

Wouldn't you question why others die but you don't?

Acknowledging up front that I think this is all nonsense but like working through the internal logic of it anyway:

 

It would take at least 120+ years for that to occur to anyone, but presumably you would yes. Not understanding why something is happening rarely prevents it from happening.

 

If you assume that every event has multiple outcomes, and that a new universe is created for every outcome, then the number of universes generated each month where you are dead would begin to outnumber the universes generated where you are alive on average somewhere around the mean life expectancy.

 

The odds of someone continuing to live at 150 would be vanishingly small and so generate a fairly sizable number of universes where they are dead.

 

We don't live in a universe where someone has lived that long because the number of universes containing people who have are overwhelmed by the universes where those people died.

[John]

This concept has been explored in several works of fiction. See, for example, the list in this Wikipedia article (which includes Divided By Infinity): Quantum suicide and immortality.

 

While it's a nice idea, and I'm sure it makes for some interesting stories, it's always struck me as an example of quantum woo. While the many worlds interpretation does seem to suggest that a person survives a potentially fatal event in some universes, I wouldn't expect that to mean the person never subjectively experiences death. I guess my thinking is that although there may be other copies of me in many universes, we're all separate entities with separate lives.

 

Of course, I'm certainly not a physicist, so perhaps there's better justification for considering the concept than I believe there is.

[alkis3]

after death man is where he was before birth

namely - nowhere

Edited April 4, 2014 by alkis3

[too-open-minded]

I'm pretty sure we just die mainly so we do not overpopulate. Death also allows for greater biodiversity. Doesn't everything have a cycle in life? A consciousness is formed and then becomes trees and planets and stars again, maybe one day.... to be a consciousness again.

[Genecks]

I have had a theory for some time, and have not yet posted until today. Death, is the subject as seen above. No one really understands it, cause no one comes back from it alive. I was thinking, maybe when you die, there are two different paths created in time. One where you lay dead, one where you live on. Since the one where you die ends (According to you and your brain), I believe you will continue to live the line of time where you live. This wouldn't make sense, you would say at first. But what if it only appeared to you that people died, well, when they died? What if it only appeared that they died. What if they lived on, but only in an alternate timeline? So it would appear to you that you would live forever, and everyone else would experience that too. You would see others die, but never die. This is because you would always continue on the living timeline, not the dead one. So, any questions?

 

Yeah, I agree that this sounds like the Many-Worlds hypothesis. However, what could be more disturbing is if you don't die and just age like an immortal without beauty. So, I could see how you might argue that there is an event that causes a person to die but that person lives on. So, for me, it could be argued (sounds freaky) that I've died plenty of times before yet part of me (perhaps consciousness?) keeps slipping into another universe where I'm conscious.

 

This sounds like a sci-fi story I read based on the Many-Worlds hypothesis in quantum mechanics. “Divided by Infinity” by Robert Charles Wilson

 

 

 

What if you met a heroin addict who survived overdosing multiple times? But in another reality, however, that person died and what you're seeing is some kind of Many-Worlds monster? How would you test for that? What if the way to test for it was to test the person's memory? What if the person was moving at ridiculous speeds, yet was considered to be somewhat mentally defected, deficient, or undereducated yet maintained a memory of past events from years prior as if it was yesterday?

 

It does sound like the revolver death scenario. I'm not sure about the feasibility of the Many-Worlds theory. Then again, I don't really understand "empty space" and virtual particles. I've been studying metaphysics as of late, and I've been questioning whether or not Rene Descartes was wrong about the demon. Some people think that's ridiculous, but I do not think so. I'm taking a foundational approach and reviewing my knowledge. I believe I'm starting to see flaws in human thinking over the past few hundred years: That would mean our intuitions about reality are wrong. This has been speculated before but not observed. People have alleged they've seen ghosts, the super natural, and so on: But it's been difficult if not impossible to "scientifically" prove these things. However, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I'm thinking that the human race is in its infancy in understanding the universe.

 

When I think of the Many-World's hypothesis, I encounter material that generally refers to the first-person perspective. So, it often appears that there is the infinityⁿ universes that can exist, where n is infinity ontop of another exponential infinity, ad infinitum, thus a tree with infinite branching of each branch. I'm not sure what the answer is; and I'm not sure about the Many-Worlds hypothesis either. I'm skeptical. However, as I've been studying Einstein's relativity, the block universe, and quantum mechanics, I've become skeptical about Einstein's view of reality. The lack of a theory of everything and a complete understanding of the origin of the universe causes me to scrutinize Einstein's theory. However, it could be said that the delimiting factor is consciousness, which has been allegedly used to interpret reality rather than humans acting as philosophical zombies.

 

As with the Many Worlds hypothesis, I've considered something disturbing that I've never thought of before. However, I saw an interpretation of the block universe in relation to consciousness on physicsforums.com, so maybe there is something to it. And it's been alleged that each person takes up his or her own personal space-time in the universe, as though consciousness is on a plane of its own existence. What if I'm the only one consciousness and all of you are philosophical zombies?

 

David Chalmers has held that view. But let me take it a step further, and I hope to return to the death topic. What if, regardless of all of you being philosophical zombies, that when it comes to your consciousness, I and all other people, are philosophical zombies. So, it's like each person is in his or her own dimension where everything is fake except him or her yet the universe presents some aspect of reality. So, we are all in our own universes. Somehow, you're conscious to read this in your universe. That, however, does not mean that you're part of my universe. It makes for an interesting issue when someone is dead or allegedly passes. Because if I'm the only one who exists in this universe and that everything else is an illusion, it's as though the universe is trying to deceive me into thinking that people die.

 

How would a person test for any of that?

 

If (1) the Free Will Theorem is correct and (2) the universe has an intelligence, then I'm worried that the universe might be attempting to deceive me about reality. That's a very powerful demon that I don't think Rene Descartes could have avoided.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Genecks

[KenBrace]

@Atom, I understand what you're saying, but I mean is that there is no afterlife. What I mean is that when you 'almost die' you switch from your death timeline to continue on to live your 'living' timeline.

 

By "timeline" do you mean that life is a movie in the sense that all actions are predetermined?

[Ten oz]

I have had a theory for some time, and have not yet posted until today. Death, is the subject as seen above. No one really understands it, cause no one comes back from it alive. I was thinking, maybe when you die, there are two different paths created in time. One where you lay dead, one where you live on. Since the one where you die ends (According to you and your brain), I believe you will continue to live the line of time where you live. This wouldn't make sense, you would say at first. But what if it only appeared to you that people died, well, when they died? What if it only appeared that they died. What if they lived on, but only in an alternate timeline? So it would appear to you that you would live forever, and everyone else would experience that too. You would see others die, but never die. This is because you would always continue on the living timeline, not the dead one. So, any questions?

When saying that "you" live on what exactly are is be referenced? If the body, including the brain, dies what is living on? Are you implying a form of consciousness that exists beyond the brain? A soul?

[KenBrace]

When saying that "you" live on what exactly are is be referenced? If the body, including the brain, dies what is living on? Are you implying a form of consciousness that exists beyond the brain? A soul?

 

The relation between the brain and consciousness is interesting. I don't believe that consciousness exists only via the brain but I would like to know for sure.

[Ten oz]

The relation between the brain and consciousness is interesting. I don't believe that consciousness exists only via the brain but I would like to know for sure.

 

I can't see how conciousness could existed without the brain. It is a very interesting relationship though. Split brain hemisphere studies indicate our brains may be capable of more than a single consciousness. http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

[KenBrace]

I can't see how conciousness could existed without the brain. It is a very interesting relationship though. Split brain hemisphere studies indicate our brains may be capable of more than a single consciousness. http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

 

I think of the brain more as a wire that consciousness flows through but not the source of consciousness itself.

 

Interesting link. I'll check it out.

[Ten oz]

I think of the brain more as a wire that consciousness flows through but not the source of consciousness itself.

 

Interesting link. I'll check it out.

That is the more interesting way to see it but I can't get there. Ultimately I, all humans, need our memories and stored knowledge to be who we are. I make countless unconscious decisions a day based on previous experiences and learned information. Damage my brain and I can no longer do that.

I associate who I am, being self aware, with consciousness. Do you think it could be different? Do you think consciousness can exist seperate from any knowledge of self?

[MonDie]

[snipped]

 

Death, is the subject as seen above. No one really understands it, cause no one comes back from it alive.

 

[/snipped]

 

Some people come back out of faints or comas. They don't usually recall much.

Edited June 16, 2014 by MonDie

[KenBrace]

That is the more interesting way to see it but I can't get there. Ultimately I, all humans, need our memories and stored knowledge to be who we are. I make countless unconscious decisions a day based on previous experiences and learned information. Damage my brain and I can no longer do that.

I associate who I am, being self aware, with consciousness. Do you think it could be different? Do you think consciousness can exist seperate from any knowledge of self?

I'd say that is very similar to what a soul is like after death. No real consciousness or animating life force. Like the balck box flight recorder of an airplane.