Radical Edward Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 I thought of this just after Toms "sue" thread.... Elephants and Whales have huge brains don't they? what do they do with it all?
blike Posted April 10, 2003 Posted April 10, 2003 Whales process all that sound they put out, but it surely can't take that much brain. I heard an interesting theory (on discovery channel of course) that dolphins actually can bulid a 3d model of the target in their head by emitting different frequencies of sound. Something to keep in mind is brain size in proportion to body size. Elephants and whales both have massive bodies, which means they have a lot more nerves and such which their brain has to process. Humans, on the other hand, have a big brain relative to body size, and we have a lot of free neurons that are just sitting around waiting to be used. Maybe whales are under the ocean plotting our demise. Now if they only had opposable thumbs...
Radical Edward Posted April 11, 2003 Author Posted April 11, 2003 Originally posted by blike Maybe whales are under the ocean plotting our demise. Now if they only had opposable thumbs... with brains that siye, they have probably thought of something better! would this mean that dinosaurs would have been relatively numb and unfeeling, if they only have titchy brains then?
Skye Posted April 11, 2003 Posted April 11, 2003 They probably occupied their brains more with processing sensations and controlling their body than with advanced cognition or behaviour, like creating a 3D model of a fish, or highly variable social interactions.
Elle Posted April 12, 2003 Posted April 12, 2003 Originally posted by blike Whales process all that sound they put out, but it surely can't take that much brain. I heard an interesting theory (on discovery channel of course) that dolphins actually can bulid a 3d model of the target in their head by emitting different frequencies of sound. Something to keep in mind is brain size in proportion to body size. Elephants and whales both have massive bodies, which means they have a lot more nerves and such which their brain has to process. Humans, on the other hand, have a big brain relative to body size, and we have a lot of free neurons that are just sitting around waiting to be used. Maybe whales are under the ocean plotting our demise. Now if they only had opposable thumbs... I prefer to wait a while and see who has the largest brain relative to body size..... we might get fooled. Wachee
fafalone Posted April 12, 2003 Posted April 12, 2003 Just because a brain is large doesn't mean it functions well or even does as much. Alot of function is related to efficiency, and lower brains aren't nearly as well wired as we are.
Skye Posted April 12, 2003 Posted April 12, 2003 Dolphins have a larger brain to body volume, and a greater level of cortical folding, than us. They have a much thinner cortex though, and far fewer connections between their neurons.
aman Posted April 12, 2003 Posted April 12, 2003 I saw a picture of neurons in brain material that developed nodule offshoots which might be interpreted as memories or ideas. The quantity of noduless would be associated with the complexity of the brain more than size. I'll take todays laptop over 1985 commodores any day. Just aman
spacemanspiff Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 keep in mind that even humans use large amounts of brain for things like perception and movement. very important things both my bet is that whales use a large portion for whatever it is they use to get around down there under water
blike Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 Originally posted by spacemanspiff keep in mind that even humans use large amounts of brain for things like perception and movement. very important things both my bet is that whales use a large portion for whatever it is they use to get around down there under water Yes but things like jellyfish and lower fish get around just find without complex nervous systems, though perhaps their movement isn't as complex. Even so, all a whale must do is move its fluke and away it goes. Humans must combine balance and motor control to walk. We are also extremely flexible with the environments we can handle. We can crawl, walk on our knees, tip toes, walk backwards, walk up stares, run (entirely different motion), and handle all kinds of terrain, all on two legs.
Radical Edward Posted April 14, 2003 Author Posted April 14, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone Just because a brain is large doesn't mean it functions well or even does as much. Alot of function is related to efficiency, and lower brains aren't nearly as well wired as we are. oh I am not contesting that, I am just wondering what they do with it all... if all that extra size is just redundant room or not.
YoungStrife Posted April 16, 2003 Posted April 16, 2003 Fafalon is right. Whales don't have the ability of cognitive/logical thought..they are only processing machines. And yes blike...it's called sonar..go figure dolphins use it too. Elephants mostly use their brains for storing memory, and basically another form of echolocation using ground vibrations (they do this for mating) Now we as humans, though we have a relitively smaller brain than elephants or whales have they gift of cognitive and logical thought. Even though this is true we are still very inneficiant...heres proof; A calculator has about 1/1000000 the processing power as humans, but it can calculate some thousand times faster, meaning we have 1/1000000000 the processing efficiancy of a calculator! Another question rises though; what happens to all this lost data and why are we so inneficiant, why do we think needlessly about random things, and why is over 1/3 of our huge brain devoted to vision!?
Blackfin Posted February 20, 2005 Posted February 20, 2005 Even so, all a whale must do is move its fluke and away it goes Eeeehhhhh. WRONG. Cetaceans must also compensate for drag (60 times greater in water than air) and learn to deal with buoyancy issues. It's unfair to compare energetics of whales and humans without taking into consideration how different the mediums they move through are. We move side to side, back and forth. Whales can move up, down, back, forth, and side to side - an entirely extra dimension in movement. I should think it's a little more complex than fluke slapping. Whales don't have the ability of cognitive/logical thought..they are only processing machines. Also wrong. Please see the dolphin intelligence thread for an explanation of my thoughts.
Hellbender Posted February 20, 2005 Posted February 20, 2005 oh I am not contesting that, I am just wondering what they do with it all... if all that extra size is just redundant room or not. there is no such thing redundant room with brains. It takes a lot of energy to fuel a large brain, so all of it better be worth it. Remember that elephants and large whales also have large bodies, some have social structure and both have good cognitive abilities as well.
coquina Posted February 20, 2005 Posted February 20, 2005 I also read that in order to sleep without drowning 1/2 of their brain remains awake at all times, so that they can keep their blowhole out of the water, be aware of danger - ie collisions with ships or accidental grounding. This leads me to wonder if both sides of their brain are equally dominant, as opposed to humans. It would seem logical that if the right side stood guard on Tuesday night, the left side would have the duty the following night... so that both sides of the brain got an equal amount of R&R.
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