People, ( HUMANS ) appear to be Position [Spacial] orientated things !

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

As part of a series of blindingly obvious statements , I recently made the above quoted ' OBSERVATION ' .

As my friends would say, " You are just stating the B....obvious ! "

 

This may be true , BUT within the Blindingly obvious can be 'un noticed or just unseen in front of your very eyes ' or even ignored for some unknown reason or 'blind spot' But BTAIM ( be that as it may ) , I none the less made this Blindingly Obvious observation , during a recent spell abroad , away from my home country. ENGLAND.

 

Here is the observation :

 

 

While in Italy I was up in the Hills, I was Absorbed with the Location , the views, the Surrounding Countryside the people, the nearby town and City. Even though we had Business, Family, House, City, Town , Countryside etc in England I was conscious of NOT giving these any thought, It was as if they did not exist. I wanted to remain for more than 7 days , maybe for a long time?

 

Now I have returned to Beautiful Devon England . I /we are Absorbed with Business, Family, House, City, Town , with the Location , the views, the Surrounding Countryside the people, . I am conscious of NOT giving any thought to Italy , It is as if it does not exist

 

Within one moment I am now in my current position 1000 miles away totally away from Italy. :-We humans , appear to be a Position [spacial] orientated thing ! quite an incredible change overnight during sleep !

 

Hence the Observation stated above .

 

We are Position orientated and indeed also this :- [ and although a different subject all together -Time orientated ]

 

 

We are Space and Time orientated beings ! This perception is within us. - INSIDE US - ?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

We are Space and Time orientated beings ! This perception is within us. - INSIDE US - ?

On the Journey between both places, I thought about the change in position. I was traveling on the night bus between Stanstead Airport North of London via HeathRow Airport West London , across England to Exeter Devon West of England . The Bus took some 5-6 hours into the darkness of the night.

 

I looked through the window into the darkness. the artistic vanishing points produced the perspective lines extending , forward into the darkness of the night by catching the road edge and the power lines. In those vanishing points I looked forward to the light of the next day. The driver carried us with all his lit up dials. My only close views were the back of the Blue seats infront of my Knees.

My Positional Point travelled with me to my future spacial position.

 

 

The other requirement for our internal orientation. Time

 

SPACE - TIME

 

 

I have in my hand a book first published in 1916 by Albert Einstein . Called

Albert Einstein

 

Relativity

The Special and the General Theory

It must be a later translation , as I did not think , general relativity came out until later 1918 or something.

 

However I do not feel so bad now about going back to basics. He starts with rods and straight lines and propositions ( axioms ) , the position of three points on a straight line .

 

Mike

Edited March 28, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

What aspect of earth science is supposed to be under discussion here?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

!

Moderator Note

What aspect of earth science is supposed to be under discussion here?

Overhead of a famous ancient place of learning ( possibly in Greece or Alexandria , ( it escapes me at the moment) was the sign )

ENTER HERE ONLY HE WHO IS A - GEOMETER -

The famous. Painting to go with BLAKE showed an ancient sage leaning over with dividers in his hand , measuring out the line. The first chapter in his book on relativity is called " physical meaning of GEOMETRICAL PROPORTIONS.

 

It is all there GEO. meaning Earth. ..... METRIC . meaning Measure.

 

Einstein started his book discussing what he saw as the fundamental axioms or discussion of his great scientific discoveries with the issue of position of POINTS......LINES........PLANES.........CURVES......... As the bedrock simple propositions (axioms) on which only if stated could one proceed with discussion.

 

It would seem that the positional ....POINT..... and the strait line to the next .....POINT...... along the shortest distance ( using Euclidian Geometry) , must be a ....STRAIT LINE .....

 

Surely every crystal of mineralogy , every D.N.A. Molecule or bacterial form of life uses these basic Geometric phenomenon to go about their business of EARTH SCIENCE .

 

You are always saying. " where is the maths ? " ......".There is the maths " at its most fundamental axiomatic level.

 

And we are great , as humans , to perceive this most fundamental Geo scientific phenomenon .

( Earth science ) . No?

 

Mike

Edited March 29, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

 

I was expecting some connection with geology or geophysics, or perhaps glaciers or hydrology or even atmospheric science. You know, earth science.

 

Geometry is math. If you have actual points of geometry to discuss, do it in math. If it's more of what you posted, put it in the lounge.

 

 

edit:

moved to speculations. The rules of speculations apply.

 

[cladking]

People have lost sight of how defining time and place is. The exact same words

uttered at one time and place can have a distinctly different meaning than when

said elsewhere or when. The perspective of the listener and speaker also affect

meaning.

 

Everything is perspective.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Everything is perspective.

I have been giving this subject of perspective a lot of thought and investigation recently.

 

I was taught perspective in principle at school years and years ago. but it was just ' put a couple of points either side of your picture . draw all the lines to these points and away you go'

 

I have recently taken it all rather seriously and its quite spooky .

eg If you go down to ground level. [ lay on the floor] the horizon that was miles away comes down with you. Grass is as high as a tall building . If you look down a long high street the vanishing point is half a mile away. everything goes to a point. If you go to the point and look back . WOW !

 

If you go up in a department store say 4 floors look at the buildings around you . the EYE LINE [ which used to be at ground level , has come up to the 4th floor with you.

 

Conclusion . We are carrying our EYE LINE perception around with us like a jewel at our chest[eye] . see painting above link http://www.scienceforums.net/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-33514-0-74952600-1396040492_thumb.jpg [ after view press back arrow top left ]

 

strictly speaking it should be up at exactly 'eye level'

 

What Einstein goes on to say , is that another 'point ' exists at the next position. and provided you are using Euclidian geometry . The line between will be the shortest and is ' a straight line ' and that if you have a straight pole at each point vertically , you will prescribe a ' plane' and so he builds up the perception of a cube of 'Space-Time'. Although to some extent , this sounds basic. It is the way he builds up on these [axioms] that enabled him to think through ...his Theory of 'Space -Time '

 

 

Mike

Edited March 29, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[tar]

Mike,

 

Kant, in his Critique of Pure Reason, establishes space and time as our two a priori intuitions.

 

It is not unlikely that our models of the world, based on these two a priori intuitions have something to do with the empirical world. (if not EVERYTHING to do with it.)

 

And we ARE postional, in relation to the empirical world, What we sense and interalize, is an anologue model of the thing, from our perspective. As we change our position, the model is continually and accurately adjusted to match what is sensed.

 

My model of the world includes some of the roads and views in NJ and PA and NY and of less completeness those of all the states on the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. Plane trips to CA and HI as well as to the Yucatan and Japan and Germany include those positions in my model. Lived in Germany for two years and saw some of Austria, and a tiny bit of France and Switzerland as well. With Google Earth I have zoomed in on all these places and found their place in my model of the Earth.

 

I am currenty in a basement room that few others on Earth have witnessed in its current configuration. Its not in anybody elses model, but a few repairmen and inspectors and short score of family members.. You can't see it from Google Earth. Its not in any videos on youtube. Perhaps there are some pictures, from this position in the room or that, that more people have seen, sitting on a clipdrive of the assessor, or some picture I posted on a thread.

 

No two people hold the same model of the world, and each peice of their model is made up of views from particular positions that changed over time. And the model that each of us holds, has been built, over time.

 

We are "positional" entities.

 

We have built our models from Kant's two a priori intuitions. That of space, and that of time.

 

Regards, TAR

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Mike,

 

Kant, in his Critique of Pure Reason, establishes space and time as our two a priori intuitions.

 

It is not unlikely that our models of the world, based on these two a priori intuitions have something to do with the empirical world. (if not EVERYTHING to do with it.)

 

And we ARE postional, in relation to the empirical world, What we sense and interalize, is an anologue model of the thing, from our perspective. As we change our position, the model is continually and accurately adjusted to match what is sensed.

 

My model of the ..........

 

We are "positional" entities.

 

We have built our models from Kant's two a priori intuitions. That of space, and that of time.

 

Regards, TAR

I remember as a growing boy , my world consisted of a 1st wood at the end of our road. ... On more adventurous occasions me and the other boys would have an expedition to the second wood . This was exciting as the 2nd wood was so different. Once a year in mid summer we ( as boys ) would go looking for special branches to makes bows and arrows. This was to the third woods . Scary, dark not used but exciting. Such was my world as a young boy .

 

"................... Years later I returned to this village in the Devon countryside. On my motor cycle fresh from university. I zoomed by all three woods in a trice. I could not believe their foot print was so small, now I had grown up (or so I thought. Now the whole world is in my head. " and time is racing by!

 

Mike

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I remember as a growing boy , my world consisted of a 1st wood at the end of our road. ... On more adventurous occasions me and the other boys would have an expedition to the second wood . This was exciting as the 2nd wood was so different. Once a year in mid summer we ( as boys ) would go looking for special branches to makes bows and arrows. This was to the third woods . Scary, dark not used but exciting. Such was my world as a young boy .

 

"................... Years later I returned to this village in the Devon countryside. On my motor cycle fresh from university. I zoomed by all three woods in a trice. I could not believe their foot print was so small, now I had grown up (or so I thought. Now the whole world is in my head. " and time is racing by!

 

Mike

 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Roamer]

We also sometimes get homesick when we're far away for a long time.
I bet you 'd get homesick if you were to visit Africa for a prolonged period of time.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

We also sometimes get homesick when we're far away for a long time.

I bet you 'd get homesick if you were to visit Africa for a prolonged period of time.

I am sure I would. I have never been to Africa. But I have recently become fascinated by its Long ago Drifting about the outer skin of our globe on its Own continental plate with some set of " cratons " or something. Great pillars descending deep into the Mantle making it as ' firm as a rock' .

I have just returned today from the Canary Island of 'gran canaria ' off the coast of Africa. I went to find an old house I own down there. It was surrounded By Cactii and Bamboo, and Palm trees all overgrown. I returned 3 hours ago .

 

here are some pictures :-

1.

2.

3.

 

Now, the map in my brain includes this African style area of land, totally overgrown with bamboo, palm trees , river bottom full of massive stones transported by flash flood, then parched by years of intense sunshine.

I am now sitting at home in England but the top of my head , my back are scorched beyond pain, my hands full of strange , creeping spikes of cactus thorns, an every dry rash of spike I can imagine. And images and feelings of heat, dryness and itching and scratching beyond belief.

A woman ,used to farm this land and lived in the house with here children and goats. She long since died and her sons moved to Argentina. I bought the plot off one or two nephews about 20 years ago. It has overgrown a bit since then . I have asked my daughter to take it over ! To make her mind map grow bigger. She seemed in SHOCK. ,

 

 

 

Mike

 

Edited April 12, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Ophiolite]

Your observations in regard to time and place are blindingly obvious. Our attitude to time and place are a necessary consequence of evolution. If we did not have this approach we would be eaten by predators, or starve to death because we had neglected to realise we needed to eat now.

 

The triumph of the scientific method is that it ignores these biases and forces a systematic attention on consistently specified time and space.

 

Again, Mike, I see your approach as being subjective and artistic. Nothing wrong with that, but you seem to feel that subjective/artistic approach is equivalent to and can duplicate the objective, scientific methodology.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Your observations in regard to time and place are blindingly obvious. Our attitude to time and place are a necessary consequence of evolution. If we did not have this approach we would be eaten by predators, or starve to death because we had neglected to realise we needed to eat now.

 

The triumph of the scientific method is that it ignores these biases and forces a systematic attention on consistently specified time and space.

 

Again, Mike, I see your approach as being subjective and artistic. Nothing wrong with that, but you seem to feel that subjective/artistic approach is equivalent to and can duplicate the objective, scientific methodology.

Yes , But we are what we are ! We are approximately :-

 

1 Meter high. x 0.5 meter wide x 0.25 meter thick .

 

That is big enough to bump into a lamp post, and too big to notice an Ant (unless we were specifically looking for an Ant that is).

 

This is very relevant to my ART and my necessary Subjectiveness. ( At Certain Times ) Indeed to be very conscious of lamp posts and not too worried about ants, especially if I am carrying a delicate scientific piece of expensive electronic equipment like a dual trace oscilloscope .

 

If I am very very small say a minute neutrino I can forget about the world with all its many lamp, posts I will Zip through the lot , and not notice the world

even .

 

If I am very very large ,say the Andromeda Galaxy, I need not be too fussed about rushing toward the Milky way Galaxy, perhaps except for the core 4 million stars crushed into a black hole, they may give me a whirl like a rock and roll partner.. But that Earth with its lamp posts , never notice.

 

So yes it does count as a subjective issue because we are 1 meter tall. not a millionth of a nanometer or billions of miles .

 

Also we did try out ART as an acceptable communication system for science , and it seemed quite popular

 

. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/82416-art-in-science/

 

However, I do appreciate that , should I be more interested in the interaction of an electron in a sea of other atomic particles a Feynman Diagram might be more appreciated than either an ant or a lamp post !

 

mike . (now where was that sink hole ? )

 

)

Edited April 15, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos