Gravity is NOT the weakest force.

[Cosmobrain]

I've been thinking and I came to the conclusion (probably a wrong conclusion) that gravity isn't that weak. All the matter we see is made up of almost entirely of empty spaces. If you had a spoon of pure matter, it would be incredibly heavy and would have a very significant gravitational pull. The thing is that we don't have such material.

 

My question is, if you had pure matter, would the gravitational force be stronger than electromagnetism?

[Acme]

There is no such qualification as 'pure' matter.

[md65536]

If you had enough mass in a small enough space, you'd have a black hole. Then the effects of electromagnetism couldn't affect anything on the outside. Does that count as stronger?

[Endy0816]

Yeah, talking more about density than anything else.

[MigL]

The only way to seriously look at it is to consider elementary particles like two electrons, They have equal masses and equal charges and since they are elementary, there is no 'empty space' in them. Gravity will tend to pull them together while their charge will tend to separate them. I haven't looked it up in along time, but off the top of my head, I seem to remember the separating force is 10^18 times stronger than the attractive force.

 

I.E. you will never form a black hole of similarily charged particles.

[Cosmobrain]

The only way to seriously look at it is to consider elementary particles like two electrons, They have equal masses and equal charges and since they are elementary, there is no 'empty space' in them. Gravity will tend to pull them together while their charge will tend to separate them. I haven't looked it up in along time, but off the top of my head, I seem to remember the separating force is 10^18 times stronger than the attractive force.

 

I.E. you will never form a black hole of similarily charged particles.

that makes sense. If you consider a single particle, the electromagnetic force will win

[swansont]

I second Acme's request: what is "pure" matter?

We know gravity wins if you get enough neutral matter together, but it takes quite a bit to win out. The question is whether it would ever win out if the matter was not neutral? (hint: the answer is no)

[Hououin_Kyouma]

compressing an object to "pure matter" does not change its gravitational pull at a distance d>its initial radius.

i.e if the sun were to be replaced with a spoon of "pure matter" of the same mass....earth would still maintain its orbit and time period.

as long as mass doesnt change gravitational pull at a distance would remain as strong or as weak as it was b4 the change.

[John Cuthber]

OK, it's fair to say that we are mainly empty space- the gaps between the electrons and the nuclei.

So you can argue that we are composed of "matter" and "space".

If you squashed us, you would eliminate the space and I guess that's what he means by "pure matter".

However,we can play with just protons (like the LHC) or just electrons (like those in an old TV tube).

And those would count as "pure matter"

When they fire protons at eachother, they repel.

So, the repulsive effect due to their charge exceeds the gravitational attraction due to their mass.

 

Gravity is still a lot weaker than the electromagnetic force.

[Wso]

I'm not sure if this will help, as other users have already said a lot about this topic that was very helpful. That being said, I think I can help answering the "what is pure matter?" question. Pure matter is not possible if you consider string theory. If all atoms are made if protons, neutrons, and electrons, and protons and neutrons are made of quarks which are made of strings, which are one dimensional, then all compression of empty space in the third dimension would prove to be pointless. It would take an infinite amount of one dimensional objects to make up any non-zero space in the third dimension. So therefore, all compressed mass must be due to the size of electrons. Compression of electrons would prove to be a very futile effort because their charges would repel each other. So the electromagnetic force would overcome gravity as the distance between them gets smaller and smaller. Gravity would get stronger, but electromagnetism would get much, much stronger.

Though I suppose if you consider all matter to be standing waves then they can "interfere" with each other, though I wouldn't consider this compression.

Hopefully this helps, if not, I can try to clarify more. Also, if something I said was wrong, please point it out.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Wso

[idontknowwhyijustknow]

to assume that pure matter would have a stronger gravity is wrong as the force gravity is formed by the earth and all matter within the gravity only has weight because of the gravity.

 

matter does not have weight in 0 gravity and since gravity is the result of electromagnetic force of the earth any object weight is subject to electromagnetic force directly , the only way this could happen is for the object to be seperated by space from earth, such an element could not exist on earth as it would(or prob the earth) would be repelled away

[ACG52]

 

 

gravity is the result of electromagnetic force of the earth any object weight is subject to electromagnetic force directly ,

Gravity has nothing to do with the electromagnetic force.

[idontknowwhyijustknow]

thats just a statement im not interested in people quoting ignorance of past thoughts give me some example

 

explain why is mass expressed in kgs when the kg is actually a measure of gravity(newton) science explains this away with the second law of motion inertial mass but i argue that if the gravity force acts on all matter then the weight messured f=ma is not exerted by the matter but rather by gravity.

 

the matter doesnt gain weight in the presence of gravity ..... Gravity becomes measerable in the presence of matter

its all about perception humans are part of the illusion hence why matter is perceived as solid and heavy .we cant see it any other way unless you leave the illusion

 

but to measure the force gravity with both the newton and the kg isnt helping

 

please stop teaching our youth the falsehood of weight being a property of matter it simply isnt

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

idontknowwhyijustknow,

 

Please confine your speculations to your own thread on the matter (which I split from another thread that you were also hijacking) and stop derailing others.

[idontknowwhyijustknow]

sorry i thought you moved me to my own thread already under skeptics?

[yahya515]

I've been thinking and I came to the conclusion (probably a wrong conclusion) that gravity isn't that weak. All the matter we see is made up of almost entirely of empty spaces. If you had a spoon of pure matter, it would be incredibly heavy and would have a very significant gravitational pull. The thing is that we don't have such material.

 

My question is, if you had pure matter, would the gravitational force be stronger than electromagnetism?

Yes, exactly, no doubt, absolutely true , you are a real scientist.