Are You A Capitalist?

[reverse]

What is a Capitalist?

Is the USA a Capitalist country?

Can someone try and strip away all the verbosity and tell me straight.

[Ophiolite]

The US is a mixed economy with strong capitalist leanings. If you strip away the verbosity of the explanation you also strip away all the richness and subtlety of meaning and are left with a trite, worthless comment, such as my opening sentence.

 

A capitalist is someone who makes all or the bulk of their income from investing their money in business ventures, with the prospect of both increasing the value of their share of said venture and receiving periodic dividends from the venture's profits. Because their investment is at risk (they could lose all of it) they feel entitled to the reward of what others consider 'obscene profits'.

A capitalist economy is one in which the bulk of the production of goods and services is provided by companies set up in this way.

Thus you can work in a capitalist economy without being a capitalist. However any of us who have savings deposits in banks or penions are de facto capitalists.

 

That's as simple as I can make it. Can I go back to being verbose now, before I throw up? Thanks.

[reverse]

I liked the opening comment.

 

The rest wasn't verbose at all.

 

I have just been reading some early political theories and I'm trying to find real life examples.

 

I was thinking that there are quite a few people in the US who have no ownership in the means of production.

and it seems likley that most of the ownership rests with a small number of individuals.

 

I was trying to think in terms of the origional definitions.

 

and if all wealth comes from labour, then how do nations relate to multinational corporations who outsource?

[ecoli]

For a good philosophy book about capatilism, read Adam Smith's "THe Wealth of Nations"

[budullewraagh]

i hate the concept of an unrestricted free market

[reverse]

[

For a good philosophy book about capitalism, read Adam Smith's "THe Wealth of Nations"

 

Yep read that and his other more social work...that everyone ignores.

 

so do you think that all wealth comes from labour?

 

give me an example for goodness sake!

I have no real concept of what this means!

[reverse]

i hate the concept of an unrestricted free market

 

What do you mean like no tariffs?

or that you can outsource your labour?

or that it's all outside the control of governments an run by multinationals.

[john5746]

What is a Capitalist?

Is the USA a Capitalist country?

Can someone try and strip away all the verbosity and tell me straight.

 

If you believe in ownership, and investing for your future and the future of your children, then you are a capitalist.

[reverse]

If you believe in ownership, and investing for your future and the future of your children, then you are a capitalist.

 

so does the average Joe own anything or does the bank and the credit card company really own it all?

 

Can you really make enough to live from by investing your extra money or is it all chewed up by interest and the cost of living?

[john5746]

so does the average Joe own anything or does the bank and the credit card company really own it all?

 

Can you really make enough to live from by investing your extra money or is it all chewed up by interest and the cost of living?

 

Not to mention taxes. The average Joe has the opportunity to own. Now, capitalism has problems with distribution of wealth. The pie gets larger, but a few get most of the pie. That is where government steps in, and redistributes the wealth. How much this needs to be done is always debated.

 

Motivation is a key factor. Think of students in a class. Two options:

 

1) No grades, everyone passes regardless of performance.

 

2) Have grades, then apply a curve at the end to insure adequate distribution.

 

Which scenario will result in a better educated class overall?

 

BTW, I am very average Joe, and will own my house soon, have two cars with no payments and no credit card debt. I also have almost a years expenses saved, 401k retirement, some pension growing everyday. I live below my means. House is small, etc.

[budullewraagh]

"What do you mean like no tariffs?

or that you can outsource your labour?

or that it's all outside the control of governments an run by multinationals."

completely unrestricted free trade is pure capitalism. it allows for the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie. simply, labour standards cease to exist and a select few control the political scene due to their immense quantities of money.

remember the formulas for capital: M-C-M' and C-M-C' where C'>C and M'>M, M=money and C=commodity. this works, but the opposite of this is observed by the proletariat, who become more and more impovershed. monopolies and trusts form and the proletariat becomes far more rapidly impovershed

[syntax252]

I am a minor league capitalist.

 

I worked as a blue collar worker (machinist) for 45 years and retired 5 years ago. I have investments that I manage myself and have done quite well--for an amerature.

 

I believe in Capitalism. As a Machinist, I spent my life working for Capitalists. If it were not for people like W. K. Kellogg, the Clarke brothers and others, I would not have had a place to ply my craft. Indeed, I never would have learned a craft in the first place.

 

I do not believe however, that Capitalism is the final solution to all of our economic ills. Had it been strictly up to my Capitalist employers, I would not have earned enough money to own my own home, let alone have any investments. What made the difference during my working years was a socialistic organization called a labor union. It was the union that got us the pay and the benefits that made it a good job, rather than a subsistence job.

 

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that Capitalism needs to be moderated somewhat by socialistic organizations, like labor unions, in order that the wealth be distributed in such a way that all parties concerned--workers and owners alike--will benefit.

 

I don't see a hell of a lot of need for the government to get involved in the redistribution of wealth as long as we have the right to collective bargaining.

[YT2095]

I demand an honest days pay for an honest days work, if that`s "capitalism" then I`m a capitalist.

 

it really is that simple to me

[reverse]

John 5746

 

Trust you to turn it into a class struggle…class.. get it…aaaahh nevermind.

 

You are unquestionably correct about reward as motivation.

 

And you are not an average Joe,

you seem to have a very cool head when it comes to personal finance.

I would call you a very above average Joe.

 

Can you think f an example where “labour” produces a “surplus”.

I need to define the terms.

[reverse]

Budullewraagh

Nice!

Check the original meaning of the word bourgeoisie, you may be surprised.

So if pure Capitalism guarantees the workers to total exploitation, how come everyone supports it so strongly?

 

Can you think of an example where “labour” produces a “surplus”.

I need to define the terms.

[reverse]

Syntax

Yes! collective labour bargaining.

To balance out the power.

This is a brilliant observation, and so integral to the way it actually works in many countries.

Though I think a pure Capitalist would not want labour unions,

because they reduce the profit ,and increase the cost of production.

 

Can you think of an example where “labour” produces a “surplus”.

I need to define the terms.

[budullewraagh]

well, there has never been a purely capitalist state to my knowledge...

[syntax252]

Syntax

Yes! collective labour bargaining.

To balance out the power.

This is a brilliant observation' date=' and so integral to the way it actually works in many countries.

Though I think a pure Capitalist would not want labour unions,

because they reduce the profit ,and increase the cost of production.

 

Can you think of an example where “labour” produces a “surplus”.

I need to define the terms.[/quote']

 

I am not sure of what you mean by labor producing a surplus, but I am pretty sure that collective bargaining has produced a consumer class in America that is much larger that it would have been had it not been for the labor unions.

 

What has happened as a result of that is (in my opinion) that this larger consumer base required more manufacturing capability to satisfy their demand for goods and services, resulting in more investment capital going into the manufacturing infrastructure, and the higher wages also created the necessity of finding faster ways to manufacture products in order to keep costs down.

 

The result is that both the workers/consumers and the industrialists were better off (financially) than before.

 

Whether or not this has infinite potential to continue, I don't know, but I am sure that it has worked quite well in America for at least 100 years.

[john5746]

Can you think f an example where “labour” produces a “surplus”.

I need to define the terms.

 

Farmers come to mind.

[reverse]

I demand an honest days pay for an honest days work' date=' if that`s "capitalism" then I`m a capitalist.

 

it really is that simple to me [/quote']

 

 

Straight to the point as usual.

 

In that scenario my friend, you are the labour not the capitalist.

 

The fly, not the spider.

[reverse]

 

 

Whether or not this has infinite potential to continue' date=' I don't know, but I am sure that it has worked quite well in America for at least 100 years. [/quote']

 

Well what really happened in the US -

when labour tried to organise for the first time the capitalists simply killed them.

Lots of them.

 

Then the following court case whitewashed the killings.

 

The capitalists did not fairly concede power, they just had no other choice due to the sheer numbers of people refusing to supply the nation with coal.

And the fact that it was in their best interests to have coal flowing again around election time.

[reverse]

Farmers come to mind.

 

 

ok lets strip it down.

 

who owns the land?

 

whats your definition of "labour"

 

and what is the other word for the landed middle class.

[Sayonara]

and what is the other word for the landed middle class.

Footballers?

[reverse]

well I'm not from the UK but even I know about Posh and Becks,

not sure what the people in the US would think about that.

The super bowl is one hell of a income generator (despite wardrobe failures and the like) plus they don’t have a strong class system so they may not get the joke.

 

 

I'll go out on a limb here and say that there is not much expertise among the members here on the definitions and details re how capitalism works.

 

As scientists then, does anyone care to define the Euro/dollar value of things and labour in termes of energy.

that would be an alternate system I could really work with?

[Ophiolite]

who owns the land?

 

whats your definition of "labour"

Land ownership is varied, but at least in the UK the bulk of it is owned by a vanishingly small percentage of society.

 

Labour is any human activity involved in the provision of goods and services for which recompense is made in money or kind.

 

Where are you trying to go with this?