Are You A Capitalist?

[reverse]

No.

 

You would have no doubt if I was taunting you.

 

How else will I ever get the chance to hear first hand what practical communism is like?

 

Everything that comes via the media is twisted.

 

My objective here is to understand the true nature of Capitalism,

 

Communism it seem is the antithesis or flip side of the coin.

 

So, one should shed light upon the other.

[Vladimir]

What a most peculiar person you are? You sound very much like a person i know.

Capitalism can only work on the basis of opression. How can one person make a profit without another person taking a loss?

As i said before there are very few truly capitalist states left, the rest have mainly become socialist.

[reverse]

Well, the story I am getting so far is,

that unlike matter and energy,

the laws of conservation do not apply to wealth.

in other words, the total amount of wealth is not finite.

This is what I am trying to test more.

[reverse]

So Vlad,

 

Reward and motivation are a big thing in a capitalist culture,

Also personal freedom.

How do these things work in a Communist culture?

[Vladimir]

Actually in a capitalist society, you are restricted by the need and teh want of silly little peices of paper that don't actually do anything, what is money good for if it cannot buy you the things you want.

In a communist society the motivation is the prosperity fo the state. Above all things this is important. The only motivation required is either self preservation or self enhancement

[Aardvark]

In a communist society the motivation is the prosperity fo the state. Above all things this is important. The only motivation required is either self preservation or self enhancement

 

Your understanding of human motivation leaves me astounded.

[atinymonkey]

Vladimir and reverse seem to enjoy the same level of drunkeness before they post.

[Vladimir]

Is it that obvious?

[Vladimir]

Your understanding of human motivation leaves me astounded.

Why?

[syntax252]

At the risk of getting back on topic.......

 

I guess when I posted that I am a capitalist, I should have clarified that by saying that I believe in capitalism rather than that I am one.

 

I think that Capitalism and the free market system has returned more wealth to the proletariat than socialism or communism ever could and simply because it creates more wealth in the first place.

 

Although I would agree that without the emergence of the labor union, it probably would not have created as much wealth as it has.

[Aardvark]

Why?

 

Because your deep understanding of the human psyche is so utterly insightful. To be able to arrive to such a profound understanding of human motivation leaves me humbled to be in your virtual presence.

 

After all what could possibly be more motivating than the prosperity of the state? What a brilliant insight.

[Phi for All]

* hands Aardvark the sarcasm mop *

[syntax252]

Because your deep understanding of the human psyche is so utterly insightful. To be able to arrive to such a profound understanding of human motivation leaves me humbled to be in your virtual presence.

 

After all what could possibly be more motivating than the prosperity of the state? What a brilliant insight.

 

Indeed!

[reverse]

Poverty.

 

That must be the shadow of the object known as capitalism.

It certainly is the minimum end of wealth.

While the efficient capitalist rises to the top of the power and privilege ladder (as it were).

Some individuals head to the bottom with what seems like equal velocity.

Not only do the poor fail to create a surplus of wealth to store away for a rainy day, but they do not manage to generate enough wealth to supply the basic necessities of life.

In a country with a poor soil and a cruel climate things must be managed so much more carefully relative to population density that in a lush temperate place.

 

That aside, how is it that in places of abundant resources, we find people living in cardboard boxes.

 

Would you agree that it is the forces of addiction /alcoholism and mental disorder that grip these people in place.

 

And given any political environment, the situation would not change for them.

[reverse]

Because your deep understanding of the human psyche is so utterly insightful. To be able to arrive to such a profound understanding of human motivation leaves me humbled to be in your virtual presence.

 

After all what could possibly be more motivating than the prosperity of the state? What a brilliant insight.

 

Hey, but hang on.

 

You are missing something here.

 

Why do US soldiers freely enlist?

 

They transpose group benefit for individual benefit.

 

You are out on a pretty thin limb to be displaying so magnificently.

[reverse]

Actually in a capitalist society' date=' you are restricted by the need and teh want of silly little peices of paper that don't actually do anything, what is money good for if it cannot buy you the things you want.

In a communist society the motivation is the prosperity fo the state. Above all things this is important. The only motivation required is either self preservation or self enhancement[/quote']

 

 

Hi Vlad.

Sorry for the knee jerk reactions of some people.

They will be ok once their brains engage.

They are scientists above all.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but is there money in a communist system?

And if there is, what is it used for.

And if there isn’t, then how do you go to the store to get food?

[atinymonkey]

While the efficient capitalist rises to the top of the power and privilege ladder (as it were)................

Some individuals head to the bottom with what seems like equal velocity.

.................

That aside' date=' how is it that in places of abundant resources, we find people living in cardboard boxes.

 

Would you agree that it is the forces of addiction /alcoholism and mental disorder that grip these people in place.

 

And given any political environment, the situation would not change for them.[/quote']

Wow, you present the most simplistic logic as if it were a positive insight.

 

The lower rings of society are not poor because of mental disorder, or being in the thrawl of addiction. Your assumption that the capitalist society is some form of ethnic cleansing, with the smart becoming rich and the dregs sinking to the bottom, is laughable.

 

 

Checking to see if there is any information or wit in these words.

 

Surprisingly' date=' you being the butt of the joke didn't make you predisposed to seeing the humour. Jesus, what are the odd's of that?

 

 

Excuse my ignorance, but is there money in a communist system?

And if there is, what is it used for.

And if there isn’t, then how do you go to the store to get food?

 

Before attempting to argue about currency and economics, at least try and understand the difference. The ability to trade does not constitute a capitalist state, just as the social security in the US does not constitue communisum.

[john5746]

 

That aside' date=' how is it that in places of abundant resources, we find people living in cardboard boxes.

 

Would you agree that it is the forces of addiction /alcoholism and mental disorder that grip these people in place.

 

[/quote']

 

The resource that generates real wealth is people. When a country has abundant resources or a system that provides for everyone, such as Saudi Arabia, the people tend not to become as creative or industrious as say Japan.

 

If we see wealth as generated by people, then we can see that if they are motivated to generate wealth, the pie will be larger. Now, the distribution of the pie may be "unfair", but overall, people will have more wealth.

 

The world is not black and white, I don't think there are any true anarchies, communist or capitalist systems. They are shades of gray. So, the question is what do you start with? Do you start with an all incompassing state and work towards individual freedom, or do you work from personal freedom and go the other way?

 

I think the federal gov. of the US is pretty powerful and controls many aspects of our lives already. In fact, we had a war over this.

 

Also, the point about soldiers, earlier - many soldiers go into the military to earn a living, not to protect the 'state'.

[reverse]

 

 

1)

The lower rings of society are not poor because of mental disorder' date=' or being in the thrawl of addiction. Your assumption that the capitalist society is some form of ethnic cleansing, with the smart becoming rich and the dregs sinking to the bottom, is laughable.

 

 

2)

Wow, you present the most simplistic logic as if it were a positive insight.

 

 

3)

Surprisingly, you being the butt of the joke didn't make you predisposed to seeing the humour. Jesus, what are the odd's of that?

 

 

4)

Before attempting to argue about currency and economics, at least try and understand the difference. The ability to trade does not constitute a capitalist state, just as the social security in the US does not constitue communisum.[/quote']

 

Hi Monkey.

 

C’mon don’t get sore,

I put smiley faces on my posts to show that I was just giving you a gentle ribbing and that you could have put a bit more wit into your jokes.

Plus you have to admit commenting on the posters rather than the topic is an easy way out.

3)

(ps you are still doing it)

 

 

1)

As for the Addiction thing, I like first hand information as well as statistics.

I went around the bridges and streets in the early hours and talked to the homeless.

My conclusion was that alcohol and mental disorder held them there.

 

2)

Sometimes when a thing appears simple it’s because it been carefully crafted and your mind is blind to the multiple concealed layers.

Have you never seen a film like Blade runner say and noticed that it’s meaning expands every couple of years.

Now I’m picking that the film didn’t re arrange itself on the tape.

 

Thank you for the observation, you seem to have a good insight into this topic.

Can I think about your post and ask you some questions later.

[reverse]

The resource that generates real wealth is people. When a country has abundant resources or a system that provides for everyone' date=' such as Saudi Arabia, the people tend not to become as creative or industrious as say Japan.

 

If we see wealth as generated by people, then we can see that if they are motivated to generate wealth, the pie will be larger. Now, the distribution of the pie may be "unfair", but overall, people will have more wealth.

 

The world is not black and white, I don't think there are any true anarchies, communist or capitalist systems. They are shades of gray. So, the question is what do you start with? Do you start with an all incompassing state and work towards individual freedom, or do you work from personal freedom and go the other way?

 

I think the federal gov. of the US is pretty powerful and controls many aspects of our lives already. In fact, we had a war over this.

 

Also, the point about soldiers, earlier - many soldiers go into the military to earn a living, not to protect the 'state'.[/quote']

 

That ‘s a lot to consider.

 

I asked some world war two guys who freely enlisted why they did it.

They said mostly that they had no idea about the real horror and for an adventure.

Some wanted just to serve their country. They had great loyalty like Vlad.

[john5746]

That ‘s a lot to consider.

 

I asked some world war two guys who freely enlisted why they did it.

They said mostly that they had no idea about the real horror and for an adventure.

Some wanted just to serve their country. They had great loyalty like Vlad.

 

Yes, it is one thing to join when you see the world and your country threatened as in WWII and 9/11. But, many join in peacetime and hope never to goto war.

 

Where is Vlad from? What is he loyal to?

 

Do the mentally ill and alcoholics fair better in communism? Maybe they feel better because everyone else is poor? Do they replace great manufacturing companies with outstanding hospitals and orphanages?

[syntax252]

 

Do the mentally ill and alcoholics fair better in communism? Maybe they feel better because everyone else is poor? Do they replace great manufacturing companies with outstanding hospitals and orphanages?

 

Or none of the above?

 

EDIT:

On this site, one can lookup the GDP for any country. It is interesting to compare the pr. capita GDP for communist countries to Capitalist countries.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

[reverse]

QUOTE=john5746]

Where is Vlad from? What is he loyal to?

/

 

sorry, I don't know, an Ideal I think.

a promise of a better world for all.

 

 

To me, the human quality of loyalty is separate from (the person, group or ideal) that it cares for.

 

as for the Addicted or mad,

Theirs is an internal struggle, they are disadvantaged everywhere.

 

a tutor once said to me.

"Often its not the system that defines success,

its the way it's applied and by who.

A "poor" system well applied can be more successful than a "great" system, badly applied ..."

[reverse]

 

 

On this site' date=' one can lookup the GDP for any country. It is interesting to compare the pr. capita GDP for communist countries to Capitalist countries.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/[/quote']

 

Cool!

 

Arable land was a surprise to me.

Ps what’s with the low literacy rate in the US???

And Aus 100%!… now that seems very odd also.

[reverse]

We

should really be getting back to the Topic of Capitalism I suppose.

 

Ok where were we.

 

Back on our tropical island with our tribe.

 

Name anyone?

 

The “Esefen” for now (feel free to think up a better one)

SFN (get it) nevvermind.

 

The island will be ..umm what the heck… Esefenui.

 

OK, so do we agree that the chief is the axil through which all other individuals regulate their behaviour towards one another… especially in terms of rank or pecking order?