what is your attitude toward "pussy riot"?

[Sensei]

pussy riot from Moscow went to Sochi,the distance from Moscow to Sochi -1500 km

I the usual Russian,I never had arrived in Sochi, travelling is expensive,Need money to airplane, and need money on a hotel, and so on

 

I can't afford to take and at any moment to go to Sochi,it is expensive,

 

Who said they traveled airplane?

Maybe they simply car drive.

3000 km / 100 km = 30 * 7 L/100 km used by engine = 210 L of oil or gasoline.

What is price of oil/gasoline in russia?

I have here $1.8 (yeah, we have quite expensive)

210 * 1.8 = $371

If we split to 4 persons in car, each has to pay $93.

You really can't afford paying one hundred dollars? Really?

[alkis3]

gasoline in Russia is about 0.6-1$ per liter

they travel by car in America?or maybe they made a raft of trees and swam across the ocean?

and why they are negotiating with the official persons of America?who are they that be with them met officials of America?

if you say that the American government care about human rights,why don't they meet citizens Libya and Syria, which they bombed?

in these countries there is a mess,many people there lost their homes,many were killed,many were left without a father,why not meet them?

that pussy riot committed hooliganism and was imprisoned 1.5 years,

this is so scary?what is more terrible than if someone has lost the house and lost health from American bombs in Iraq and other countries?

only don't tell me that in Iraq and Syria civilians has not suffered,it was a war... open your eyes

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[Arete]

gasoline in Russia is about 0.6-1$ per liter

they travel by car in America?or maybe they made a raft of trees and swam across the ocean?

and why they are negotiating with the official persons of America?who are they that be with them met officials of America?

if you say that the American government care about human rights,why don't they meet citizens Libya and Syria, which they bombed?

in these countries there is a mess,many people there lost their homes,many were killed,many were left without a father,why not meet them?

that pussy riot committed hooliganism and was imprisoned 1.5 years,

this is so scary?what is more terrible than if someone has lost the house and lost health from American bombs in Iraq and other countries?

only don't tell me that in Iraq and Syria civilians has not suffered,it was a war... open your eyes

 

 

This post is simply a series of goalpost shifts and strawman arguments. I.e. when it is pointed out that the cost to travel from Moscow to Sochi by car is reasonable, you shift the goalposts to discuss travel to the US, and then introduce the strawman argument of US human rights in Syria/Libya. This includes a simple fallacy - that the US has bombed Syria - which it hasn't. Israel conducted airstrikes against Syria, not the US http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/19/israel-syria-airstrikes-army/6598085/

 

Please refrain from fallacious arguments, they don't add to discussion.

[alkis3]

ahh,sorry,Syria bombed not NATO

well,when I say America bombed I always mean NATO,

I don't know exactly who is in NATO chief ,main America or any other country ,or in NATO, all countries are equal

but the fact that NATO bombed many countries,and in these countries there are many injured

 

I.e. when it is pointed out that the cost to travel from Moscow to Sochi by car is reasonable,

well,for me it is obvious that they have a lot of money,many factors you will not be able to take into account that not live in Russia

like the fact that Russians are very rarely go to a far away city on his car,

in fact that is not always a good road,at the entrance to the cities have a road congestion of the car truckers,and the Russians decided not to have a big car,the Russians in most cases, light cars

in General, there are many reasons that Russians to travel to distant cities use public transport

by this I know that they are traveling by plane,but explain it to the American hard

eventually you you can believe in my words,can not believe.it's your choice

but from Russia, the situation is visible so that pussy riot is not political people,the people who bribed with money to damage Russia's image

perhaps they are governed by political opponents of Putin,or perhaps, they are guided from NATO,as an information attack against Russia to play on the difference of mentality

In any case,there is a very large confidence that they are acting on somebody

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[Phi for All]

but from Russia, the situation is visible so that pussy riot is not political people,the people who bribed with money to damage Russia's image

perhaps they are governed by political opponents of Putin,or perhaps, they are guided from NATO,as an information attack against Russia

In any case,there is a very large confidence that they are acting on somebody

Or perhaps Putin finds it very easy to claim people are being bribed to damage Russia's image. So many people are willing to believe in conspiracy, and leaders know this.

[Arete]

well,when I say America bombed I always mean NATO,

 

You'd still be wrong. NATO has not bombed Syria. "NATO has not moved forward so far, because of the absence of a United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing action against Syria"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/opinion/nato-must-help-obama-on-syria.html?_r=0

I know that they are traveling by plane,but explain it to the American hard

A) Sure, it's likely that they did. It's reasonable to assume they probably did. But you don't KNOW that they did. It's possible that they did not. Therefore the extrapolation that they are rich/puppets of the rich because of their mode of travel is plausibly incorrect.

B) I'm not an American.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Arete

[alkis3]

 

Or perhaps Putin finds it very easy to claim people are being bribed to damage Russia's image. So many people are willing to believe in conspiracy, and leaders know this.

first of all this is my opinion,based not on the words of Putin

and secondly, what exactly you don't like Putin,or what they don't like Putin,that it made that much not okay?

what the problem Putin, in your opinion?

 

that infringes upon the rights of gays?

so gay pride in Russia there- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Pride

The fact that gay parades fight,so it's not Putin,the citizens do not want these parades were held

gay nobody in Russia kills , what else do you not like?

pussy riot mouth nobody closes that they want to talk about Putin,they are saying. ..

What you still see the problem?

 

or you don't like what Russians struggled for a healthy family?

now of two evils, you must choose the lesser

correctly said President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko

He was accused that he is a dictator

he replied : it is Better to be a dictator than a gay guy

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[Phi for All]

first of all this is my opinion,based not on the words of Putin

and secondly, what exactly you don't like Putin,or what they don't like Putin,that it made that much not okay?

what the problem Putin, in your opinion?

 

that infringes upon the rights of gays?

so gay pride in Russia there- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Pride

The fact that gay parades fight,so it's not Putin,the citizens do not want these parades were held

gay nobody in Russia kills , what else do you not like?

pussy riot mouth nobody closes that they want to talk about Putin,they are saying. ..

What you still see the problem?

I wasn't singling out Putin. I was trying to show you that there may be other, more likely reasons why a politician does what he does.

 

I realize that the majority opinion in Russia may be that homosexuality threatens your country. This perspective taints everything else as well. You claim that gay parades are bad because fights break out, and so you protect the real culprits, the heterosexuals who feel threatened by homosexuality and start fights at a gay pride parade. This is like saying you want to get rid of all the cats because your dog chases them.

 

 

 

Listen, it may sound counterintuitive or wrong, but a healthy society needs dissention. Bad laws need people to break them to show how bad they are. In my state, so many people got put in jail for smoking marijuana that the citizens here decided it was a stupid law, so we made marijuana legal. Now we don't send people to prison for doing what others do with alcohol or medication.

 

I know, you don't agree with the "clown" way that Pussy Riot sent their message, but you should be willing to defend their right to do it. Surely your religion is strong enough to withstand a few people objecting to its involvement in Russian politics? And guess what? Pussy Riot made you feel strongly enough to go out to the web and get other opinions, so that's a victory for them.

 

They don't have to change your mind to make it work a little harder. They just have to expose you to their perspective. There should be no fear of being exposed to other perspectives.

[alkis3]

 

You claim that gay parades are bad because fights break out, and so you protect the real culprits, the heterosexuals who feel threatened by homosexuality and start fights at a gay pride parade. This is like saying you want to get rid of all the cats because your dog chases them.

Gay nobody hurts

if you tell that you're gay,it is unlikely that you someone insults you

but people against propaganda gay

there is no objective meaning,to arrange parade!

Let's have a parade football fans, or fans of beer

Then today we will parade lawyers,tomorrow will be a parade of programmers,after tomorrow the parade of masochist

 

 

What's the point?

Then we'll do in the country holding parades each day...and won't work

Why gays are doing parade,why do not parade the representatives not of traditional religions or other people ... what's the problem of gays

why do gays want to show clearly that they are gay?

Is it so important?

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[Sensei]

that pussy riot committed hooliganism and was imprisoned 1.5 years,

 

Singing song is not act of hooliganism..

[alkis3]

 

Singing song is not act of hooliganism..

and this is not the song..this affectation in the Church

[pwagen]

Gay nobody hurts

if you tell that you're gay,it is unlikely that you someone insults you

Read up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

Russian version, as far as I can tell: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2,_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA,_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B8_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2

 

but people against propaganda gay

there is no objective meaning,to arrange parade!

Let's have a parade football fans, or fans of beer

Then today we will parade lawyers,tomorrow will be a parade of programmers,after tomorrow the parade of masochist

There's a big difference between a gay pride parade and a programmers parade. Nobody is persecuting programmers because they are programmers. And nobody is throwing lawyers in jail for being lawyers (arguable, but still). So, I'd wager, for a lot of people, the parades are a way of bringing this persecution to light.

 

Sure, it would be great if they wouldn't need it, and would simply be able to live their own lifes. But as long as people are hurting and killing them because their sexual preference, that's not going to happen. One can argue whether a parade is the best way to do it, but something needs to be done, which is even more apparent because of your statements in this thread.

[toastywombel]

Sure, it would be great if they wouldn't need it, and would simply be able to live their own lifes. But as long as people are hurting and killing them because their sexual preference, that's not going to happen. One can argue whether a parade is the best way to do it, but something needs to be done, which is even more apparent because of your statements in this thread.

 

Very well said

[alkis3]

 

And nobody is throwing lawyers in jail for being lawyers (arguable, but still). So, I'd wager, for a lot of people, the parades are a way of bringing this persecution to light.

So if gays know that it will hurt,but still go to the parade,it turns out that they are not only gay but masochists?this is a joke

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....nst_LGBT_people

Russian version, as far as I can tell: http://ru.wikipedia....

there it is told not only about Russia,I meant first of all Russia,and secondly that gays in most cases, not violence

Yes,it is possible case of violence there,but very few of them

 

 

 

and I laugh at your statement that Putin tyrant

look at the times of Joseph Stalin,there were millions repression

I understand-tyrant

 

Here in the times of Putin's you about 10-20 people who have been persecuted from 150 000 000 Russians

You yourself do not laugh?what Putin tyrant-this is nonsense

and all these 10-20 people you know

In the times of Joseph Stalin there was just killing everything at once,and all these your 10-20 people live,and live better than many

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[toastywombel]

So if gays know that it will hurt,but still go to the parade,it turns out that they are not only gay but masochists?this is a joke

 

there it is told not only about Russia,I meant first of all Russia,and secondly that gays in most cases, not violence

Yes,it is possible case of violence there,but very few of them

 

 

 

and I laugh at your statement that Putin tyrant

look at the times of Joseph Stalin,there were millions repression

I understand-tyrant

 

Here in the times of Putin's you about 10-20 people who have been persecuted from 150 000 000 Russians

You yourself do not laugh?what Putin tyrant-this is nonsense

and all these 10-20 people you know

In the times of Joseph Stalin there was just killing everything at once,and all these your 10-20 people live,and live better than many

If you want us to sit here and say the the Russian government under Putin is a beacon of hope and a good example of a model Nation. It is just not going to happen. While he may not be Stalin, he certainly is not running a very progressive government by any means.

Edited April 8, 2014 by toastywombel

[Phi for All]

Gay nobody hurts

if you tell that you're gay,it is unlikely that you someone insults you

but people against propaganda gay

there is no objective meaning,to arrange parade!

Let's have a parade football fans, or fans of beer

Then today we will parade lawyers,tomorrow will be a parade of programmers,after tomorrow the parade of masochist

 

 

What's the point?

Then we'll do in the country holding parades each day...and won't work

Why gays are doing parade,why do not parade the representatives not of traditional religions or other people ... what's the problem of gays

why do gays want to show clearly that they are gay?

Is it so important?

Seriously?! It means nothing to YOU, so you don't think it's important?!

 

And you seem unwilling to acknowledge differing perspectives. Maybe gay people in Russia don't "want to show clearly that they are gay", maybe they just want to show that they represent a statistically significant portion of society. Maybe they want to show that they recognize the plight they are all in, being in a very homophobic country with a reputation for disappearing people who go against policy. Maybe they just like getting together with peers who have common experiences.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're ready for democracy. You seem very intolerant, and unwilling to let certain people become People.

[alkis3]

I don't know what is the Russian government,but it is definitely not as bad as you think about it

[Phi for All]

I don't know what is the Russian government,but it is definitely not as bad as you think about it

Not the point. What I think of the Russian government is irrelevant. Homosexuals in your country think it's as bad as it is, for them at least.

 

I'm sure for you it's great. A good democracy will try to help as many as possible be great.

[alkis3]

 

Maybe they just like getting together with peers who have common experiences.

I say again,Russia is not against gays,Russia is against gay propaganda

normal citizens are not guilty,that at conception gay gamma quantum attacked a cell's DNA and subsequently it turned into what man gay

gamma Quant it figuratively speaking

but,there are children who have a weak mind,and if they see gay,they will begin to ask ourselves what it is,and normal health child can be damaged.

this does not have to show people the false views,it can see from the Bible,Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed,we don't need the wrong path

letting gays in Russia will be,but one should not teach children false views

[Sensei]

You don't become gay because of looking at gay... or parade..

[alkis3]

 

You don't become gay because of looking at gay... or parade..

children can become

 

I realize 50 percent from what you write here,

and it seems to me now what you mean gay jail

but this is not so,not sanctioned gay parade delaying the police and driven to the police station , check the documents,and goes home

and if you arrange not authorized parade of football fans,then you will also detained and taken to the police,and then will go home

and only defer the most active participants of the parade

that is, in ordinary life,gay has all the rights of a citizen

if Gaea's hurt,the person who will do it,can have problems with the police

in Russia there is no division into the ghetto (Iif you come to Vladivostok,is 6500 km from Moscow,there you will meet the same people as in Moscow ),there is no such thing ghetto at all,in Russia every citizen equal to any other citizen ,

I not talking about Putin or the government,in any country is not so,that is the words Yes,Putin is the equal of any,but it's clear that it's not so

on that in Russia if a gay will come to the police,and tell them what hit him,no matter gay or not,he will have all rights of a citizen

Edited April 8, 2014 by alkis3

[Phi for All]

Russia, judging by you, has some misconceptions about things like homosexuality. A lot of these misconceptions are perpetuated by religion, which usually places itself at odds with science (reality). This is why Pussy Riot staged a protest in a church, because politics and religion shouldn't be mixed, it's always proven to be very bad.

 

I don't know if Pussy Riot thought about this, but maybe it was all done so you would come here, and learn that who you're attracted to is not a choice. Everyone is a little different, but basically if you like the opposite gender you won't be able to be attracted to the same gender. Some small amount of people are attracted to both genders, and some are attracted to the same gender. The point is, you don't get to choose the gender you're attracted to, any more than you can choose the color of your skin.

 

So perhaps the real message is that you shouldn't hold things sacred. Beliefs are fine, but when your beliefs can't stand any type of questioning, if they're so fragile that a little reality makes them shatter, and some girls singing a song in a church threatens the very foundations of those beliefs, then maybe you should think more objectively about what you believe in.

[Sensei]

You have skewed informations about gays.

They feel desire for person with the same sex as they.

Colloquially speaking true man gay has erection only with man, and feel disinterest to woman (no erection).

 

How do you want to change heterosexual children to gay?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Sensei

[pwagen]

So if gays know that it will hurt,but still go to the parade,it turns out that they are not only gay but masochists?this is a joke

Yes, it's a joke, but not the way you think. Or actually, the way you think is.

 

Are you honestly so morally corrupt that in the case of protestors attacking a gay pride parade, you blame the people in the parade for being out at all? You know, demonstrating for equal rights for everyone?

 

Yes,it is possible case of violence there,but very few of them

You really need to either learn English, or start spreading your propaganda on Russian sites instead. Because it's obvious you're not taking in a single thing that's been said here, and I suspect it's due to the language barrier.

 

Here in the times of Putin's you about 10-20 people who have been persecuted from 150 000 000 Russians

Do you also think it's okay with slaves, as long as there's only like 15 of them?

 

In the times of Joseph Stalin there was just killing everything at once,and all these your 10-20 people live,and live better than many

So what? Two wrongs don't make a right.

[alkis3]

 

You have skewed informations about gays.

They feel desire for person with the same sex as they.

Colloquially speaking true man gay has erection only with man, and feel disinterest to woman (no erection).

and do you think I don't know about it?