The Science of Pictures

[CharonY]

AFAIK bellows are primarily used in macro photography as it would affect the focal plane but not the overall alignment. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, though. For a regular cityscape (without tilt shift or anything) a good tripod with adjustable head (e.g. ballhead or gimbal) with built in water levels are useful.

Of course, in digital photography you can use live view to adjust the alignment of your camera before you snap.

[davidivad]

have you ever taken a shot of a building right at the base?

i take it you do not like bellows equipment?

the idea behind this topic is to give the reader a broad definition of photography. there is a rich and colorful history to the mechanics of photography and i feel that the reader should be aware of the old as well as the new. plus how it fits together. so, while my questions may seem a bit off, it is important to discuss this. i do not want the reader to think that they can get one camera at wall mart or Ebay for everything. i want them to consider the weight of the purchase. evaluate what they want to invest in and then make a purchase that will entertain them for years to come. professionals use professional tools for a reason and this idea must be passed to the reader.

while a quick toolkit is nice, how about a big investment?

Edited April 12, 2014 by davidivad

[Acme]

So there is a Lunar eclipse coming Monday night & I want to photograph it. Whether film or digital I have always had my Moon photos turn out overly bright & no detail of craters when I use auto metering/exposure. Hints, tips, advisements?

[davidivad]

i will be too busy employing my intoxicated howling technique!

http://photographylife.com/how-to-photograph-moon

 

i will probably let this thread go on it's own and start another with a more focused agenda.

consider it a pilot program.

 

i did not include links to resources like i had originally intended for further reading and i picked too broad a range to cover.

i need a better way to use the argumentation style of this forum.

any suggestions?

feel free to continue the subject as it still has value to me as a pilot run.

[CharonY]

So there is a Lunar eclipse coming Monday night & I want to photograph it. Whether film or digital I have always had my Moon photos turn out overly bright & no detail of craters when I use auto metering/exposure. Hints, tips, advisements?

 

Always shoot manual, metering does not work well under extreme conditions (unless you use live view to set it properly, in that case aperture mode is useful). Set your focus to infinite assuming it is well-calibrated. I generally stop down the aperture to the sweet spot of the lens (i.e. where you have maximum sharpness), The moon is quite bright so you can stop down quite a bit. Assuming you got a tripod you can further set iso (for digital) to base to minimize noise. After that it is a matter for finding the right exposure. Again, avoid overexposure. If you go aperture mode you may have choose the metering wisely (i.e. straight on the moon) and still adjust exposure manually. Often times you need to go faster than 1/60 at base iso to avoid overexposure. And again, do not autofocus. That often goes wrong, too.

 

Back to bellows, there may be some uses for perspective control in specific architectural photos (though less in cityscapes) but I assume in many cases a tilt-shift is more useful (and common, to my knowledge) than bellows. The latter is eminently useful for macros, though.

[davidivad]

CharonY

 

any thought on a more effective strategy for utilizing argumentation for a better thread.

i firstly did not start with an outline of what i wanted to discuss so the thread is quite choppy (the next one will be more organized for the reader).

i also need to have established a requirement for reference material to support claims (this is more useful than anything).

please note that there is an underlying motive to this thread and that is to show that direction can be had with the argument style on this site (you can argue all day for points but what have we accomplished then). i am a firm believer that the style has more to offer than pilfered egos and abandoned threads.

 

the real purpose of this thread...

 

can collaboration be had with this method of argumentation?

will it lead to a further understanding over all or is it only useful for addressing specific questions?

how can i use this method to further the effectiveness of my threads?

 

photography is something quite a few people in the field of science have a knack for and it is a fairly good way to draw in extra attention from many different fields.

it was my intent to use this to get a diverse setting in which various fields come together on one problem and create a solution. LOL, i could draw only one or two.

i did establish interest so that is useful. i wanted to refrain from the thread and isolate it without my interference as much as possible to see how long it would take to derail. i can still do this hopefully.

 

so, if you smell something burning in the kitchen, that's because i have something going on behind the scenes.

 

things i have learned so far...

 

citing your supporting information is very important.

there must be fuel for an argument (readers need a reason to participate).

the use of other resources on this site beyond just the threads is required (the use of friending and formation of social groups which i did not include in the exercise).

use a specific topic and group them through naming convention.

 

i appreciate you contributions to this thread and will continue to participate as long as i get participation.

there is more use for bellows, but i would like to see if anyone out there can contribute this information. if not, then i will answer it in a later thread.

please remember that i am trying to minimize my answers for analysis of the thread.

please remember that you get a cookie for responding (an up vote).

Edited April 14, 2014 by davidivad

[CharonY]

I do not see much use for a tutorial-like thread as there are gazillions of tutorial websites/books/seminars out there. Also considering that there are not many photography enthusiasts here, I would think Q&A type discussions (e.g. moon photography) or similar would be best suited here.

[davidivad]

@CharonY

 

I will pass the hat to you.

i cannot seem to get much color or depth out of my moon pictures.

is there something i can do or some technique for digital cameras that will add color or depth?

Edited April 14, 2014 by davidivad

[CharonY]

There is little that you can do in terms of colour, the moon is pretty monochromatic as it is. But if you want it to have a brownish hue, shoot during moonrise to get a nice tint.

 

However, getting contrast and resolution right is usually the important bit. To get more of the craters a moon lit from the side (i.e. not a full moon) will provide more depth. Also minimize camera vibrations with a good tripod (weigh down if there is wind), locking the mirror (to avoid slap) or use a mirrorless and use shutter release cable or timer. And of course use a good lens.

[davidivad]

is there anything i can do in post processing that will give my pictures more color separation?

 

 

i want one of these.

Edited April 14, 2014 by davidivad

[CharonY]

I am not certain as I usually aim to get pics that are similar to what the human eye may see. One can get a bit of color in by boosting vibrance and saturation. Though even then this pic looks vastly oversaturated and they may have done more to it.

[davidivad]

they used saturation most definitely.

they also overcame noise by averaging multiple pictures.

in this way they were able to bring out the saturation to a much higher degree than they could have with a single picture.

http://www.photographyblogger.net/how-to-photograph-the-real-colors-of-the-moon/

 

this method of reducing noise is a great way to get around the limitations of your camera.

so while you do not care for the picture it has technical value to the reader.

Edited April 14, 2014 by davidivad

[davidivad]

a nice bellow (view camera).

 

 

 

sorry about calling it a bellows device as i thought you would realize what i was talking about.

notice the advantage of freedom that a bellow gives between lens and plane?

you can do the impossible with this kind.

imagine what you can do with architecture.

note that they are too pricy for one saturday morning but they are worth their weight in gold.

@Acme

was the moon smaller than you expected?

or did you use a telescope?

Edited April 15, 2014 by davidivad

[CharonY]

Well, I have used bellows before for macro shoots, but quite frankly, I have not heard of anyone (outside medium format shooters) still using it for architecture. Tilt shifts are much more common for perspective control as they are much more convenient and are easier to focus with.

[Acme]

snip...@Acme

was the moon smaller than you expected?

or did you use a telescope?

It was the size I expected. I had 3 cameras to try and it was my handy-cam that took the day. My film SLR with a 205mm lens decided to lock the shutter open so it was a bust. (putting the 28mm lens on and pointing it at a bright window this morning satisfied the meter & closed the shutter.) The 'new' little digital camera has only a 13x zoom and despite trying every setting possible the results were dismal. The still function on the handy-cam uses 20x optical zoom and has a Carl-Zeiss lens and using manual exposure I got some acceptable shots. Biggest drawback is it's only 1mp. Also shot some video, but that resolution is even lower.

For you budding astro-photographers, if you're not willing to stand around chilled to the bone for long periods, you're pursuing the wrong ambition.

[davidivad]

@CharonY

 

yes, i have a few cameras (more than one size).

the customer paid for all of them as they liked my work.

the customer got better pictures for it too.

now you have to add me to your list (i'll let you debate what list that is).

 

 

@Acme

 

i was too intoxicated myself to take the opportunity. i got together with a bunch of friends.

but you did get some pics.

the last time i was out i had my telescope. i like using the telescope because it makes me feel like i am doing something sophisticated.

it was very cold, but everybody managed.

i also took few shots of the milky way with a bit of natural framing courtesy of a big tree while we were at it.

you're are not taking good pictures until you can say you stumbled around or lost something in the dark first.

i often use a flashlight with a red lens so i can see what i am doing without going blind but i forgot it at home.

[CharonY]

Well, if you use such unwieldy beasts then by all means, bellow on

BTW, have you heard about the sony 50 MP 44x33 mm (medium format-ish) sensor? The new medium frame crop promises to be relatively cheap (below 10k).

[davidivad]

yes,

 

there is already a back and i am curious to see what they will say about it after a bit more time. being the first, i am sure the price will come down more.

it has potential but i want to see if that potential really stacks up.