Is it possible we are being "OBSERVED " by a higher life form ?

[swansont]

 

The Solution is so simple. :- Ask the right questions ..to the right places -

 

You forgot: show that this is not already happening. Otherwise this is simply an exercise in argument from ignorance.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

You forgot: show that this is not already happening.

 

But it is already happening. Individuals are asking " Is there anybody there ? " and getting a response .

 

 

 

Otherwise this is simply an exercise in argument from ignorance.

 

I am not personally talking from ignorance , as being a sincere seeker of Reality ,truth, current science based or otherwise. I have asked a few questions , as quoted above and questions extending on from this .

 

 

mike

Edited April 18, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

But it is already happening. Individuals are asking " Is there anybody there ? " and getting a response .

 

 

 

Sorry, what? Who are they and what response have they gotten?

[michel123456]

Three letters... UFO...

I double the bet

 

6 letters

 

FISCUS

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

 

Sorry, what? Who are they and what response have they gotten?

1 ] Before I go too far down this route we need to establish something that I notice you say when discussing science .

BEDROCK as far as I am concerned is REALITY. Current Science is an interpretation of reality, changing as further discoveries and theories improve, as is Maths an interpretation of reality, as is language, art and every other descriptor that we choose to use. SCIENCE ITSELF is NOT reality, just an interpretation ( which can be wrong from time to time or in part ) of Reality .

2] I can only talk for myself. However on the few occasions I have felt confident to discuss these matters with others, there do exist other people with experiences.

 

All I can say is you need to find your own private space, perhaps out in the countryside,,alone , quiet, content , not agitated.

Then say, o.K I am a scientist, genuinely wanting to know if there is in fact any intelligent life up there somewhere that can understand ,that I am asking

 

" Do you exist, and are free to indicate that there is someone intelligent out there ?"

 

Immediately, in the loose undergrowth beside me came a strange abrupt shuffling .My immediate reaction was to say out into the air." yes " but that could just be coincidence. This was immediately followed by a repeat abrupt shuffling. I examined the close spot. .Nothing.

 

What followed, was setting a protocol to interpret profound questions and answers, . based on three unambiguous positions. 1 ] to the right meaning one thing 2] to the left meaning the opposite thing and 3 ] straight forward meaning an in between meaning. .

 

Over a period of a few years I have asked some of the profoundest of questions you could imagine .

 

Please do not dismiss this as nothing . But you did ask , and I have no right to refuse you the answer. What you do with this information is your choice./

 

mike

[swansont]

1 ] Before I go too far down this route we need to establish something that I notice you say when discussing science .

BEDROCK as far as I am concerned is REALITY. Current Science is an interpretation of reality, changing as further discoveries and theories improve, as is Maths an interpretation of reality, as is language, art and every other descriptor that we choose to use. SCIENCE ITSELF is NOT reality, just an interpretation ( which can be wrong from time to time or in part ) of Reality .

2] I can only talk for myself. However on the few occasions I have felt confident to discuss these matters with others, there do exist other people with experiences.

 

All I can say is you need to find your own private space, perhaps out in the countryside,,alone , quiet, content , not agitated.

Then say, o.K I am a scientist, genuinely wanting to know if there is in fact any intelligent life up there somewhere that can understand ,that I am asking

 

" Do you exist, and are free to indicate that there is someone intelligent out there ?"

 

Immediately, in the loose undergrowth beside me came a strange abrupt shuffling .My immediate reaction was to say out into the air." yes " but that could just be coincidence. This was immediately followed by a repeat abrupt shuffling. I examined the close spot. .Nothing.

 

What followed, was setting a protocol to interpret profound questions and answers, . based on three unambiguous positions. 1 ] to the right meaning one thing 2] to the left meaning the opposite thing and 3 ] straight forward meaning an in between meaning. .

 

Over a period of a few years I have asked some of the profoundest of questions you could imagine .

 

Please do not dismiss this as nothing . But you did ask , and I have no right to refuse you the answer. What you do with this information is your choice./

 

mike

 

Somewhat sorry to be blunt, but this is not science. What you have described here is subjective and likely unrepeatable, which disqualifies it from being science.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

This is not what I am proposing as likely to happen.

 

But if a being walked out of the jungle, looking like no human we know and carried a device that they said could cure cancer if you waved it over someone. Would you say is was not science, because this strange looking stranger said something that was outside of current science .?

 

mike

 

ps as regards your comment :

 

 

 

Somewhat sorry to be blunt, but this is not science. What you have described here is subjective and likely unrepeatable, which disqualifies it from being science.

This is likely incorrect on both counts.

1. it was repeatable over several years.

2. it need not be subjective , as you , i believe could repeat it, so could others repeat.it.

 

I suspect you and many others would not be seen dead, or thought of , as having conducted such an investigation. That however does not disqualify it from being science. I am sure many current and past scientists have conducted some “bizarre”experiments just based on hunches,only later to formalise the experiment that worked and abandoned the strange ones , that did not work.

 

mike

 

Somewhat sorry to be blunt, but this is not science. What you have described here is subjective and likely unrepeatable, which disqualifies it from being science.

 

As I can see you prefer things in more down to earth format. I could moderate my story into something slightly more center stage.

 

Several years ago I entered a writing Blog competition , funded by Microsoft and The New Scientist publication. We were asked to describe in 500 words what the World of Science would be like in 100 years time . I did not win outright but I was invited to the award ceremony in the science Museum London. Several Professional Futurologists gave talks. They were professionals who advised big institutions for commercial reasons, how to steer their companies into the future..

 

One of the predictions that the Professional Futurologists made was :- That technology /science would so advance from a greatly extended version of the internet. This they said , you would just speak out into the air your question , and immediately it would be processed and by a grand style world wide wi-fi to your head the answers would come, automatically. . This does not sound a mile away from my experiences if you forget the shuffling in the undergrowth , which could have been coincidence.

 

So if that is more palatable may be you can relate. How one gains access ahead of the future, well that is a different issue!

 

Mike

We are limited in time. 500 years could see a world wide Wi-Fi system able to answer most of our questions of science , directly into our brain , following our spoken Question

 

Our spread of knowledge moving at the speed of light would only just have reached our next brightest star at 310 light years distance

 

310×10⁰ ly Canopus, second in brightness in the terrestrial sky only to Sirius, a type F supergiant 15000 times more luminous than the Sun This barely touches a 1/50th the distance to the center of the milky way 25,000 light years. [ distances quoted from wikipedia ]

 

500 years is so, so small in time.( to develop a World Wide Wi-Fi automatic to our brain in response to a verbal question.

 

Light and Electromagnetic waves are trapped in time.

 

Perhaps information is not trapped in this bound of time .Perhaps we have access to knowledge of the future outside of light waves.and their comparative slowness in the universe.

 

This could be science of the future

 

mike

Edited April 18, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[tar]

Mike,

 

Couple of things. As already pointed out, the machete negates the "uncontacted" tribe thing..

 

And as already pointed out, the helicopter is not a magical thing. They have seen such, before. It is a "real" part of their world. (Which is as much theirs as ours, and neither us nor them have any special rights to it, over the other),

 

This leads me to believe that your fear that the world would fall apart, would we have confirmed knowledge of other than Earth Based life/societies/technology, is most probably unfounded. As SwansonT noted, if a thing was real, it would be scientifically verifiable and completely acceptable as an occurence. Nobody is liable to have their heads fall off in response. Quite the opposite would probably occur, with responses like "oh, THAT's what they look like", that makes sense...I figured as much, all along. I hope they don't leave litter on the beach, or steal my girlfriend, or refuse to pay the visitor tax.

 

And another assumption you are making, that has already been pointed out as possibly false, is that they would even care what we thought about their presence.

 

It is completely possible that other than Earth evolved life, exists in the universe, but that life would not have to go by our rules, since they do not have our history. Niether our environmental history, nor our cultural history. Their technology might not even be comprable, and they might easily go by completely different standards, and exist on a different time and size scale than would be pertinent to us. In other words, a possible alien could visit the Earth and not even consider us, one way or the other. Like we could take a walk through the woods and never ask the salamander if she minded.

 

And then, as well, there could be life somewhere, right now, that would say hello, if they knew about us, but don't know about us.

 

An "uncontacted" race of this type could experience a rise and fall in reach and technology, and we could never find out about them, and they could never find out about us. And both them and us would be scientifically real, and members of "this" universe.

 

I don't think we need superior folk to explain our condition. They are liable to be experiencing the same universe as we do, and therefore,would have the same cosmic history, belong to the same reality, and would be at a similar loss to explain why there is something, rather than nothing, as we are at.

 

Regards, TAR

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Mike,

 

Couple of things. As already pointed out, the machete negates the "uncontacted" tribe thing..

 

Regards, TAR

Yes well I have been out in the hot sun a bit, it's probably addled my brain ... Sorry folks

 

 

Mike

Edited April 18, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[michel123456]

The palm trees seem to be attacked there too as it appears in your 2nd photograph. I am afraid your superior being for this time is an insect

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The palm trees seem to be attacked there too as it appears in your 2nd photograph. I am afraid your superior being for this time is an insect

 

Are you saying my surrounding palm trees of Paradise all awash with a plague of Palm Weevles.

I must have spoken out of turn !

 

mike

[michel123456]

 

Are you saying my surrounding palm trees of Paradise all awash with a plague of Palm Weevles.

I must have spoken out of turn !

 

mike

AFAIK all the mediterranean is under attack. When the symptoms show it is too late. If the palm trees are yours, you should care and take measures.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

Somewhat sorry to be blunt, but this is not science. What you have described here is subjective and likely unrepeatable, which disqualifies it from being science.

 

Over a period of a few years I have asked some of the profoundest of questions you could imagine .

 

Questions can be asked from the Mundane to the Most Profound.

Such a spectrum of questions , IF answered could Shape the future of scientific inquiry .

 

Mike

 

You could muse " If I did have the opportunity to ask a really profound question, what would I ask ? "

Edited April 19, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

AFAIK all the mediterranean is under attack. When the symptoms show it is too late. If the palm trees are yours, you should care and take measures.

This is my house on the top of a mount up in the canary island of grand canaria. I was to build a retirement home here. I have now done that in Italy. This one is now for one of my daughters to build. Just showing her where it was !

 

Now I have to tell her about the palm weevils !

 

 

Mike

Edited April 19, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Relative]

The thing is Mike , in science, or out of science, we can dream up stories all day long by imagination.

 

 

Example adding to your thoughts, please do not believe I think this for real.

 

 

We live inside a nuclear reactor, we are rust on a table leg, and dust in the wind.

 

 

However, we are also a cat in the box, they see us has alive and dead at the same time , they can not open that box to say hello, they can use audio code to try and message us but we can not translate the signals.

 

 

My point is , we can sit here all day talking imagination and cognitive thinking.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The thing is Mike , in science, or out of science, we can dream up stories all day long by imagination.

 

 

Example adding to your thoughts, please do not believe I think this for real.

 

 

We live inside a nuclear reactor, we are rust on a table leg, and dust in the wind.

 

 

However, we are also a cat in the box, they see us has alive and dead at the same time , they can not open that box to say hello, they can use audio code to try and message us but we can not translate the signals.

 

 

My point is , we can sit here all day talking imagination and cognitive thinking.

 

Yes ,well I am inclined to agree with you.

 

I did think this through one time:

And came up with .why do we not set up a computer to do the " set of monkeys ,sitting at keyboards bashing out random sentences . Soon or later the complete works of Shakespeare or a new formulae about the theory of the universe would appear one day.

 

Yes , but would you recognise it. Might you be looking away at the time.

 

Then I realised. , ! it was the recognising , and capturing the thing ,that was an equally important function.

 

Then I realised it . The system is already in place

 

 

The universe generates all the random ideas but as realities. The mould aspect of the universe ,tests them out. If they work they stay. If they do not work they fade away , or disappear quickly.

 

-------------- What we are left with is what we have got ! -----------

 

 

Mike

Edited April 20, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

-------------- What we are left with is what we have got ! -----------

 

 

 

 

its like Wysiwyg What You See Is What you get .

 

This is Wwalwiwwhg What you are left with is what we have got

 

 

Bit cumbersome

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Intellectual]

Of course it is possible, it is an absurd idea but Einstein once said if at first an idea is not absurd then there is no hope for it.

 

And should they come into contact? Absolutely! If they destroy us they would only be hastening what we are doing to ourselves, if they help us they could be our Savior.

[physica]

 

 

I did think this through one time:

And came up with .why do we not set up a computer to do the " set of monkeys ,sitting at keyboards bashing out random sentences . Soon or later the complete works of Shakespeare or a new formulae about the theory of the universe would appear one day.

 

Yes , but would you recognise it. Might you be looking away at the time.

 

Then I realised. , ! it was the recognising , and capturing the thing ,that was an equally important function.

 

Then I realised it . The system is already in place

Mike you seriously need to read more. Let’s look at this premise. Instead of the works of Shakespeare we will just look at one sentence: "to be or not to be that is the question". Let's ignore capital letters and punctuation but include the spaces. we have 39 independent outcomes for each letter for 27 values. If we have a billion monkeys each typing 39 symbols every 10 seconds for the entire age of the universe (15, billion years, notice no breaks).

 

The probability of the sentence being typed would be (1/27)^39=1.5*10^-56

 

so a year contains: 365*24*60*60=3*10^7 seconds

 

thus each monkey can make 3*10^6 attempts each year

 

the total number of attempts of all the billion monkeys throughout the entire age of the universe would be:

 

3*10^6*10^9*1.5*10^10=4.5*10^25

 

This is far too short of the number to be a reasonable chance of success. Let’s clarify, It’s insanely unlikely (a 0.00000000000000000000000000000003% chance) for one billion monkeys to type “to be or not to be that is the question” even if they ignored punctuation and typed non-stop for the whole life time of the universe. It’s not to say that it will never happen but it is so unlikely for one sentence to be typed during the entire universe’s life time. Using this to say this:

 

 

 

The universe generates all the random ideas but as realities. The mould aspect of the universe ,tests them out. If they work they stay. If they do not work they fade away , or disappear quickly.

is a complete joke. This is Mike smith's pub talk at its finest. Read up on basic probability before formulating theories based on probability. The only way be can understand the universe at this moment in time is based on probability. Can you actually be clearer on what you mean by these statements I've quoted? They are so vague they offer no insight into anything.

Edited April 23, 2014 by physica

[Lightmeow]

I'm sure there is. Hey, there are animals that we observe in the wild, and the animals have no clue we are there. Or ants, do you think ants are aware of us when we are looking at them.

 

Speaking of ants, do you think trees could be higher than us???

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

It is possible that there in another time line running out from the Big Bang that is NOT the same as our time line. They could be orthogonal such that our time line which appears to start on or very near to the Big Bang comes in our direction , where the Big Bang episode appears to last a fraction of a second , the size of an atom, coming out to the universe we observe today some 13.7 billion years later. Here we think in term of each year being the cycle around the sun by the earth.

 

Could it be that another time line also emanates from the location of the Big Bang BUT emanates out( or inwards for that matter) On its own time line, with its own different measure of time running at 90 degrees to our time line .

 

On this time line the Big Bang can be occupying many 100,s 1,000,s 1,000,000 ,s. Yes millions of years or more .

 

.

 

 

In the picture above our time line could be represented by the descending grid line , starting with the Big Bang at the top, coming down 13.7 billion years of time on our time line .

 

The one at the top running horizontally " could " be the orthogonal time line within which any advanced benign observing civilisation could exist. They could have contrived the whole project of our universe and taken there time doing all the necessary sums, preparation , gathering sufficient energy, and with precision set the whole thing going. Of course merging in to our starting time line. It is likely they are much bigger than us , and indeed their source of energy much greater than ours , otherwise it would have been an almost insurmountable energy drain. As such , any communication with us or observation within our universe may be like us looking at ants or microbes as proportion in size .

 

For that reason , although their capabilities would more than equal our abilities to conceive nanotubes and nano particles. Were WE TO WISH TO OBSERVE THINGS ON THE NANOSCALE WE WOULD REQUIRE NANO TOOLS AND NANO CAMERAS.

Hence it is likely any observers from this other time line, would require representative observers in our universe and time line.

Such observational equipment is likely to be fairly sophisticated and also interpretive.

 

Who better to do this than MAN. himself . Just maybe WE are free agents , enjoying life in this beautiful universe, but at the same time gathering observations of THEIR initiated Universe

 

MIKE

Edited April 25, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[physica]

.... how is this post even linked to your previous post??

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Link to Post 1 to remind us what the original post was proposing. .......................link :- http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/82736-is-it-possible-we-are-being-observed-by-a-higher-life-form/#entry801642

 

This should set the scene for considering Post # 46 as the orthogonal time line with its possible observing occupants should have moved up to the current time on our time line . We are not alone [ maybe ]

 

mike

Edited April 26, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[pwagen]

Why did you do that? A vertical message with one character per line is not only annoying since you have to scroll down for hours, it's also exceptionally difficult to read and does NOTHING in the way of explanation. I've enjoyed all the crazy ideas in the thread so far, but that really can't have been worth it.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Why did you do that? .....

Sorry , Not Deliberate . It went like that on me . I will try and sort it. or ask a moderator to sort it. . Sorry again

 

Mike

Edited April 26, 2014 by Mike Smith Cosmos