Can a Human Brain Be Kept Alive?

[jimmydasaint]

Just a quick point. I am not an anatomist or physiologist but I am very curious. Can the human brain be kept alive inside the cranium separate from the body, if it can be quickly connected to an external circulating source of oxygenated (and glucose-rich) blood and if the deoxygenated blood can be quickly removed? For example, IIRC, the carotid arteries can carry oxygenated blood to be removed by the jugular veins. If so, can emergency surgery be used to extend the life of brains?

 

I saw this video but I do not know if it is practical or not:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSrIkUXwsNk

[jimmydasaint]

no bites huh? I thought that the video was a fake but later found that it could be genuine in maintaining the head of canines. It seems to be the work of a pioneering Soviet scientist:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Brukhonenko

 

 

 

[Genecks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolated_brain

http://sciencefocus.com/qa/how-long-can-brain-live-outside-body

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3015553/futurist-forum/not-science-fiction-a-brain-in-a-box-to-let-people-live-on-after-death

 

I don't see why not. However, one link talks about the consciousness issue: How would you tell if consciousness was still occurring?

 

There are other issues, though. Biological issues arise, which may not be axiologically worthwhile. These involve neurodegeneration, disease, trauma, cancer, and so forth. The circulatory system is also an issue, which I think Dr. Robert White noticed while doing his research. And combine all of that with the problem of consciousness, you've got a handful of issues. The University of Reading experiment (in one of the links) goes into how brain tissue from a rodent was used to control a machine: Whether or not the rodent had some sense of consciousness, I do not know.

 

Ethics aside, it's possible to keep a brain alive; but then you have a slew of other entropy-related issues. If the whole Ship of Theseus paradox and consciousness could be resolved, then there would more than likely be an ability to transfer one's existence to a computer. It's for those reasons I started to dislike the whole Ghost in the Shell scenario of android/cyborg bodies and brains: It didn't seem plausible.

 

Also, the issue of having a robot body would be complicated and energy-consuming.

 

If a brain in a machine were to happen, then it would probably be like the villain from Robocop 2.

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Cain_%28RoboCop%29

 

As an aside, there is a lot of fascinating and profound science that happened in the early 1900s that is not discussed very much. Even with that dog experiment, however, the animal eventually died.

 

Also, I'd appreciate a green mark or reply if my post has helped.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Genecks

[jimmydasaint]

A superb reply and a green mark duly given as deserved. I will get back to you once I have read all the links and figured out what you mean by the "Ship of Theseus" paradox.

Edited April 22, 2014 by jimmydasaint

[Genecks]

What I mean by that is that if you attempted to replace parts of the brain as time goes on, does the brain still belong to the same person?

More importantly is whether or not that person, inside themselves, believes that he or she is the same person.

This kind of question also comes up when people speculate about teleportation technologies, such as in the Star Trek shows and movies.

 

I think the issue has been covered here before. I speculate that there may not be individuality to the human brain and that it is an illusion. However, it's hard to generate that belief when I've been around animals, such as dogs, that appear to have a sense of individuality and morality. Perhaps not so much a paradox.

 

It's a mind/body dualist issue. However, I've often considered that the biological maintenance to be more philosophically sustainable due to the metaphysical and physical constraints related to personhood and the mind.

 

I like to use X-Men's Wolverine as an example. If you've followed the Wolverine and X-Men comics, you'll notice that he lives different lives. He sometimes does not know who he was over one-hundred years ago. He's biologically alive. However, there are discontinuities in his memories, thus his "personhood."

 

The main point to take away from this thread is that entropy-related issues, such as neurodegeneration and disease, are going to be the most complicated factors when attempting to keep a brain alive. To counter that, my view is that neuroregeneration would be necessary. And then, you can see where that Wolverine argument starts to come in. But even attempting to keep a brain alive, there are other issues, such as consciousness.

 

What is consciousness?

 

If the holonomic brain theory is right, and perhaps there are severely more complicated issues related to the brain (perhaps a vacuum exists in the skull related to the brain that involves virtual particles), being able to replicate the conditions for keeping the brain alive may become impossible. However, neurosurgery has been performed on animals and humans before, so it's not like the brain can't be tampered with through surgery and the person brought back to life and moving around claiming to be an individual.

 

Scientifically, I don't see why not. However, philosophical issues come into play.

 

I've not read of many scientific articles where scientists take a brain and put it into a robotic environment in order to make a cyborg. It seems like the University of Reading experiment attempted to do that, but it wasn't the whole brain, if I understand correctly. Furthermore, that brain wasn't encased well enough for all motor connections to be connected to a robotic body. It's a beginning in attempting to encase brain matter in a robotic body, but it has not been completely done yet.

 

There are also other issues, especially if using an incomplete technology, such as neural degeneration from lack of usage (atrophy of the nervous system). However, I've read that the visual system tends to maintain itself after a certain biological age. I don't believe this level of quality is maintained for cognitive or motor function systems of the brain.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Genecks

[ADVANCE]

What I mean by that is that if you attempted to replace parts of the brain as time goes on, does the brain still belong to the same person?

More importantly is whether or not that person, inside themselves, believes that he or she is the same person.

This kind of question also comes up when people speculate about teleportation technologies, such as in the Star Trek shows and movies.

 

I think the issue has been covered here before. I speculate that there may not be individuality to the human brain and that it is an illusion. However, it's hard to generate that belief when I've been around animals, such as dogs, that appear to have a sense of individuality and morality. Perhaps not so much a paradox.

 

It's a mind/body dualist issue. However, I've often considered that the biological maintenance to be more philosophically sustainable due to the metaphysical and physical constraints related to personhood and the mind.

 

I like to use X-Men's Wolverine as an example. If you've followed the Wolverine and X-Men comics, you'll notice that he lives different lives. He sometimes does not know who he was over one-hundred years ago. He's biologically alive. However, there are discontinuities in his memories, thus his "personhood."

 

The main point to take away from this thread is that entropy-related issues, such as neurodegeneration and disease, are going to be the most complicated factors when attempting to keep a brain alive. To counter that, my view is that neuroregeneration would be necessary. And then, you can see where that Wolverine argument starts to come in. But even attempting to keep a brain alive, there are other issues, such as consciousness.

 

What is consciousness?

 

If the holonomic brain theory is right, and perhaps there are severely more complicated issues related to the brain (perhaps a vacuum exists in the skull related to the brain that involves virtual particles), being able to replicate the conditions for keeping the brain alive may become impossible. However, neurosurgery has been performed on animals and humans before, so it's not like the brain can't be tampered with through surgery and the person brought back to life and moving around claiming to be an individual.

 

Scientifically, I don't see why not. However, philosophical issues come into play.

 

I've not read of many scientific articles where scientists take a brain and put it into a robotic environment in order to make a cyborg. It seems like the University of Reading experiment attempted to do that, but it wasn't the whole brain, if I understand correctly. Furthermore, that brain wasn't encased well enough for all motor connections to be connected to a robotic body. It's a beginning in attempting to encase brain matter in a robotic body, but it has not been completely done yet.

 

There are also other issues, especially if using an incomplete technology, such as neural degeneration from lack of usage (atrophy of the nervous system). However, I've read that the visual system tends to maintain itself after a certain biological age. I don't believe this level of quality is maintained for cognitive or motor function systems of the brain.

Hey I got some good answers I'v figured out, and also I was wondering this question too and just gonna ask it lol.

I have figured out that the consciousness in the brain is either itself in the brain going around through neurons, you know~ Or maybe also with the memories and maybe other data kept, .......and surely at least then...memories can be slowly changed obviously so and you are still you like you know you are right now.

 

Another thing to keep in mind like I'v said in my threads-The consciousness can't ever stop, and then start, nope, which would mean in the future if all particles were in the right way with consciousness made and same memories that you'd be you...NO...it would be a new consciousness and U would not be conscious.....your consciousness has to stay going...it even does indeed when you sleep~ (memory is erased in morning before wake up)

 

My grand list thread of ways to live forever have this way labled brain transfer, to either a many-firing-system made of many robotic things, or and stem cells made into neurons or other cells or this way I should add to it too as brain take-out. Also note, if the consciousness is going to be tranfered to a new system, as I said in my threads it has to actualy go and move through something and actaully leave the brain and move into the new system, the wires may not be able to be wires, the connection between the two may have to be like a thick long extended brain itself for the consciousness to extend and move through.

Edited May 14, 2014 by ADVANCE

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

ADVANCE, please do not hijack other threads with your pet ideas. Keep it to its own thread in the future.

[Ten oz]

Just a quick point. I am not an anatomist or physiologist but I am very curious. Can the human brain be kept alive inside the cranium separate from the body, if it can be quickly connected to an external circulating source of oxygenated (and glucose-rich) blood and if the deoxygenated blood can be quickly removed? For example, IIRC, the carotid arteries can carry oxygenated blood to be removed by the jugular veins. If so, can emergency surgery be used to extend the life of brains?

 

I saw this video but I do not know if it is practical or not:

 

Genecks asked "how could you tell conciousness was still happening" I will go a step further and ask if consciousness requires a body? Sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, etc define our world and as such define how our brains process information. What does a bodiless human consciousness think? It is hot or cold, hungry or full, does it feel sleepy, or etc? Do our brains require inputs to properly function?

[Sato]

Genecks asked "how could you tell conciousness was still happening" I will go a step further and ask if consciousness requires a body? Sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, etc define our world and as such define how our brains process information. What does a bodiless human consciousness think? It is hot or cold, hungry or full, does it feel sleepy, or etc? Do our brains require inputs to properly function?

 

I expect that it's possible for a man to have full-body paralysis and numbness, a loss of auration, vision, gustation, olfaction, tactility, and appetite, and still the capacity think and even communicate (possibly through an EEG or something of the sort).

[davidivad]

yes, this is possible for short durations. however a body is required to have a complete system. a donor with his or her own head could in theory be connected to the secondary head with minimal compromise to the system extending its shelf life. there is of course the impact of blood type and etc...

once the spinal cord and other systems are disconnected, there is no feasible way to reconnect the head (we just can't do it yet). if the objective is to replant the head in an artificial body, you would still not have a complete system and the brain would not last long even if we could connect to it. building a body that could take the place of the original one would be more expensive and complex than growing a new one.

 

a dog was given two heads and of course detached from its body in the process. i believe they did this with a monkey also as far as the detached head goes. niether experiment lasted long. complications...

[Ten oz]

I expect that it's possible for a man to have full-body paralysis and numbness, a loss of auration, vision, gustation, olfaction, tactility, and appetite, and still the capacity think and even communicate (possibly through an EEG or something of the sort).

Are there examples of people who lived with full-body paralysis and loss of all senses? Honest question. Not a challange. I would be interested in reading about a case like that.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Ten oz

[Sato]

Are there examples of people who lived with full-body paralysis and loss of all senses? Honest question. Not a challange. I would be interested in reading about a case like that.

 

I'm not too familiar with pathology, but I think full-blown Parkinson's might fit this.

 

Edit: This is relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome

Edited May 31, 2014 by Sato